Introduced adopted stray to our resident cat; just a few questions

[meeepcosy]

Good day everyone!

A few weeks ago I found a lovely stray female (I guessed her age roundabout at 6 months) at work and after a trip to the vet to check on her health (and have her tested for FelHIV and Leukemia) my fiance and I decided to name her Peach and take her home. So we did the whole introduction with our resident cat Rasberry (a sterilised 8 month old kitten), exchanging the smells, keeping separate, and after a daunting (almost) two weeks, (which was also interupted by taking Peach to the vet yet again to be sterilised, so we had to start all over) we finally introduced them face to face. It went okay, they chased each other around the house the whole time. They're getting more comfortable with each other each day, which is a relief.They still don't like to sleep alongside each other, but they're getting along alright.

I just have a few questions regarding multiple cat households. I heard that cats like to establish their dominance over each other and have a hierarchy. Usually this is done by fighting, and this fighting is inevitable, no matter how well the cats get along. Is this in any part true? Rasberry and Peach have not (yet) had such a fight, and it doesn't seem like it will happen soon. Who will be the dominant one then? They don't mind sharing food or litter boxes (although we have tried to discourage both in the beginning, but it's a battle we admitted defeat to hahha!), they both sleep on the bed with us (although on separate places, but they're getting closer to each other with each new night). Rasberry seems very jealous of my fiance though, but I took it cause he's the only male now in the home. Peach used to growl at Rasberry when she was eating any food or using any litter box, but that doesn't happen anymore. Overall, they seem really to be enjoying the presence of the other. is there anything I must do to make their bond stronger? Or are they doing alright like they are now? Also, would it be okay if I place their feeding stations next to each other now, since they are not growling at each other when one of them is eating? Or would that be a bad idea? Also, I'm noticing that they're picking up on each others' habits and copying on the behaviour of the other. Rasberry never used to bother me while I was preparing food in the kitchen, but since she's seen Peach tries her luck to grab something to eat while I'm busy, she now tries to do the same. We're trying to teach Peach the correct manners, the way we taught Rasberry, but needless to say it's not really working. Haha! She's not that badly behaved though, it's just when it comes to food. Any advice on how I can show her what's okay and what's not? I don't want to scare her.

 

[sivyaleah]

When we introduced our 2nd cat to our first, there was some expected annoyance at first.  But they have never had one fight, and it's now been 6 months together.  Maybe it's because we took the time to introduce them properly or maybe it's because of their personalities, I have no idea. 

I think they establish dominance over each other, taking turns depending on the situation.  Each of them will be as likely to stare down the other or be the one to look away first when play fighting.  Each of them will chase off the other, or be the chasee.  Each will groom the other.  They share their litter boxes.  However, over all I'd still say Casper, the resident is probably a bit more dominant, and we try to make sure that she understands he is the alpha around the house in ways like by feeding him first, 

I would keep feeding them away from each other if it isn't causing any issues with space in your home.  There's no need to put the bowls right near each other.  In our home, the dishes are on opposite sides of the kitchen, not facing each other.  I feel that this gives them both a feeling of being left alone to calmly eat their meal.  Yea, Cocoa has a habit of finishing Caspers food if he walks off, we have to watch out for that and most of the time it is impossible since we have other things to do, but at least this way they aren't right on top of each other with her muscling in on him as he eats (and, even though she's only 1/2 his weight so let me tell you she really can be annoying to him!)

Their bond will grow in time, and it sounds like they are getting on really well.  As each month goes by, you'll probably keep seeing more small changes between them.  Everything sounds really normal to me between the two of them.  Good job and welcome to TCS 

 

[eb24]

Good day everyone!

 I heard that cats like to establish their dominance over each other and have a hierarchy. Usually this is done by fighting, and this fighting is inevitable, no matter how well the cats get along. Is this in any part true? Rasberry and Peach have not (yet) had such a fight, and it doesn't seem like it will happen soon. Who will be the dominant one then? 

First, Congrats on the new addition and good for you for opening your home to a little one in need! Both your girls sound absolutely adorable (in part because of the adorable names)!

I am also (relatively) new to the world of the multiple cat household. I was also very worried at first about the dominance issue and them fighting but it never came to fruition. My older girl (Ella) seems to have somewhat emerged as the more dominant one but it seems to have happened more because she was here first one here and baby Diego came into her turf. And, I didn't even notice her dominance until l started putting down one plate of wet food for them instead of two. Ella would saunter up to the bowl and eat leisurely while Diego bounced around and paced waiting for her to finish. Even with two bowls down he waits until Ella has had her fill before he goes in for his (It's actually pretty funny to watch)! But, honestly, that is the only area where one has expressed any sort of dominance over the other and it wasn't the result of a fight or intimidation- simply a showing of respect. 

Though I don't have a ton of experience my logical side thinks that dominance becomes an issue when 1) you have two extremely territorial cats or 2) when the newbie tries to "step up" too quickly. That doesn't seem to be the case with either of your girls and so I really wouldn't worry too much about it. Not to mention you did such a great job with the slow integration that I feel like if it was a problem it would have happened by now. 
Really, I think one of the best things I did in incorporating Ella and Diego was just letting them be and not getting overly involved. I know some people who said they wanted their cats to be snuggly friends and so would purposefully put them next to each other. If anything I think this creates more stress and more animosity. Of course I wished they would snuggle up in the beginning but they just don't have that kind of bond at this point. I see it a little bit here and there (they will snuggle together when they are scared and Ella still looks mortified when I catch her grooming Diego) but for the most part they like to be near each other but not next to each other. And, that's totally okay. 

I think the biggest thing you can do is making sure each feels equally loved. I went to great lengths in the beginning to make sure they got an equal amount of attention (if I said hi to Ella I said hi to Diego. If I gave Ella 10 minutes of lap time I gave Diego 10 minutes of lap time, ect). They each need to feel secure in their bond with you and know that the other doesn't take away from that. Once they know that is unharmed then they can accept the other as a fun addition and not a stealer of attention. Don't get me wrong, there were some snotty looks and a few hisses and swats as the two learned to coexist but it never came to blows. And, I think making everything "even" and not forcing them on each other played a big role in that, as well as making group activities super lucrative with treats (more on that below). 

As far as food- I think it's fine to move their feeding stations next to each other but I would also set up a neutral third station until you know they are both okay with it. That way you will know for sure if one is afraid of the new setup and they won't be starving because of it. Hopefully they will adjust fine but if they don't slow it down and start over again. Really, having them eat near each other is a really good thing. If they start to associate the other with the positiveness of eating they are more likely to make more positive associations. So, I would absolutely give the move a try. 

And, you are so right that they will pick up on the habits of the other! I think in terms of teaching Peach you start the same way you taught Raspberry. She is a member of the family and must be held to the same standards! If she isn't as quick to learn I had fantastic success with Diego and his demand behaviors with clicker training. I set him up a spot on the barstool looking into the kitchen so he can watch what I'm doing without being into everything. When I'm cooking I call him to his chair and put him in a sit and then intermittently treat.

The clicker was also great in the beginning for getting them more used to each other as they had a common goal (treats) and weren't paying as much attention to how close they were to each other. I got a similar response from play. Have you and your fiancé each take a cat and a wand toy and start at opposite ends of the room, slowly working your way to the middle. The girls will be so wrapped up in hunting that they won't be as concerned with their proximity. At the end of the play session give them both an extra special food treat right next to each other and some pets. Having that group unwind goes a long way in increasing the bond. 

The bottom line: the more positive things you can do with them close to each other (treats, playtime, pets, ect) the more comfortable they are going to become. Don't force them but certainly encourage how much fun it is to be friends! 

Again, congrats on the new addition. Hopefully they just continue on their positive path toward being friends! 

 

[meeepcosy]

What lovely replies! Thank you guys!

All in all, it was a slow introduction. The first few days was a bit nerve-wrecking though. We kept Peach in the bathroom (the bath was set up as full bed just for her; I was actually a bit jealous that she got to sleep there and not me, looked so comfy hahaha!). It went better after we took Peach to the vet to be sterilsed and brought her back afterwards. We decided to just start the introduction process from the beginning again, and that is what made the difference. Peach was fine, but she more easily showed aggression than Rasberry. Rasberry never once growled or hissed, just clawed the carpet to try to dig under the door. When they did meet face to face the first few times (only minutes at a time, always supervised with me and my fiance between them both), Rasberry would lay on her back, tummy exposed, and Peach would be wary and growling. It got better though in time, to the point that Peach and Rasberry can eat from the same food bowl at the same feeding station without either one growling. Peach most certainly looked like the dominant one, but now they seem quite even. Rasberry was a bit off last week (I also think it had to do with a big scare she got when we were walking outside with her and a bike came chasing past us) and she seemed less okay with Peach's assertiveness, and mostly slept in the living room, unless we called her. But it seems she's better now as well. Comes to sleep by us like she used to do, so I feel better now.

I feed them in the mornings, and I make a point of feeding Rasberry first, and keeping Peach occupied so she can enjoy her food. Then I feed Peach and I try to keep Rasberry occupied. After a few minutes I just let them be. They eat over each other and they have no problem with it, so I figure why should I? Haha!

We do play with them a lot. I had a cute little wand toy for them, but that broke. What we do now (and it works like a charm!) Is to play with them with ribbons, one cat on each end of one ribbon, and they love it! We have a lot of toys for Rasberry, but we also bought toys for Peach so she feels more like she belongs. I also give equal attention to both hahaha! I can't bare the thought of one of them feeling left out. Or my fIance and I take turns with each cat.

They don't like being picked up together (sometimes this is necessary when we're on our way to work and they both become so sneaky, they try to run past us to the door). Other than that we don't try to put them together. I'd love for them to cuddle but they're just not that comfortable with each other.

I'll try to give them more treats when they're together. It's been a bit difficult with Peach's greediness. We trained Rasberry by suddenly hissing at her when her behaviour isn't acceptable, and it's worked really well for her. Peach is a stray, and used to fending for herself so I was just afraid if we hiss at her she will feel threatened and become aggressive. Up to now we have been reprimanding her by hitting our forks with knives when we eat (since that is really the only time she misbehaves) giving one CLANK. She's put off by that, so yeah. I haven't tried the click training, I think that'll work better for her. Thanks for the advice!

I'll try putting their feeding bowls together for tonight and tomorrow, if they seem okay with it tonight. I'll let you know how it pans out! We've just been really lucky so far, we have such sweetheart kitties, they really are a blessing.

 

[sivyaleah]

We took several weeks to incorporate Cocoa into our household entirely.  Partially because we could sense she wasn't ready (she was quite the scaredy cat for a while, you'd never know it now) and also, to make sure that Casper was ok with her presence.  The first couple of weeks of her being out completely, we kept her in her safe room at night, to make sure she wasn't going to be bothered while we were sleeping (or vice versa, who knew?).  

We actually saw more changes in Casper towards us, not to her.  He wasn't quite himself for a while, although he also got ill right about that time so it was hard to tell which was bothering him exactly.  One thing we discovered to be helpful, was keeping his routines stable made a big difference in how he reacted, which of course includes a lot of what Meepcosy related too.  

For instance, at night, we almost always have this bonding session with him where he jumps in our bed and head butts us back and forth for several minutes until he flumps on the quilt.  He LOVES this and invented it himself.  The first month or so when Cocoa arrived, he stopped doing this completely and we were so upset about it.  When he finally started to play it again, we knew he was ok with her being in the house for good lol.  And, we also discovered we could NOT bring her into the bed with us at night, or he would stalk off miffed.  Bedtime, is HIS time, not hers.  It's one thing if she wanders in later on by herself but if we were the ones to initiate that he was not pleased at all.  We, are HIS humans, not hers 

 

[meeepcosy]

I'm so glad we weren't the only ones struggling with that! Rasberry wasn't aggressive towards Peach at all, but she didn't sleep by us for a while. She likes to get under the duvet and sleep right at my back or at the back of my knee, and that's her spot. Since Peach arrived she hasn't slept under the duvet with us. but at least she's not sleeping in the living room anymore. She's on the bed now, with Peach, but they sleep apart. And somewhere in the middle of the night she'll just wander off to one of her hiding spots. I hope it will get better soon. Peach just likes to be near us, so she stays on the bed most of the time. She doesn't like confined spaces or hiding spots, like Rasberry does, so Rasberry's personal space is still her own.

I think this has been a big change for all of us, the family is only really getting comfortable again now. We walk Rasberry every night, weather permitting, and we tried to keep to the normal routine as much as possible, but it was difficult. Walking Rasberry also gives her something else to focus her energy on. We still have to train Peach with the harness and leash, so right now one of us remains with her while the other walks Rasberry. Some things have changed, and I feel guilty about that. Feeding time and playtime remain on the top of the priority list though, I think the rest isn't major changes.

I've never had more than one cat before, so it's a bit exhausting. At the same time it's sooo exciting! I love to watch them play and chase and tumble. Hopefully with time these small creases will even out. Rasberry's a sensitve kitty, and Peach has been through so much already (I work in a very rural area, who knows what she must have endured to stay alive! And the people here are very superstitious about cats, they have killed her if they had seen her) so I just want them to be happy, like they deserve to be.

 

[eb24]

I think what both of you went through (and are going through) is fairly normal- especially bedtime routines. Like your solos Ella had her routine and stopped doing it when Diego came, which was very disheartening. But, after a few weeks of letting them work it out (Diego would take her "spot" and she would have a huffy meltdown about it and stop off into the living room) and setting up Diego his own spot opposite of her's they both adjusted and now we all share the bed together (well, they share the bed and are kind enough to let me weasel a few inches of it). 

Adding a new cat is a huge adjustment- not just for the existing cat but for the human residents. With time though I think you will find it to be one of the best decisions you have ever made. I have to be gone a lot and I feel so much better knowing Ella has a companion here. And, both my pet sitters have commented on how having Diego has made Ella more social able. She is less skittish and more willing to explore new people because she watches Diego do it and knows it isn't as scary. 

Don't get me wrong, they do have their sweet, tender, snuggle moments and do groom each other a lot (which is huge in terms of bond). They just aren't snuggle buddies all the time. I with they would be that way all the time but they just aren't yet. As Diego has grown and been here longer they have gotten closer so I have no doubt that they can get to that point if they want to. Overall it sounds like you have done everything perfectly right- where they take it is up to them! 

 

[meeepcosy]

I think I might have gotten excited too early. what happened since my last post: their playing sessions has gotten more and more intense now. Rasberry has hurt her eye. I had their nails clipped so they wouldn't hurt each other too bad, but still. Rasberry sometimes yowls when Peach attacks her. Peach's tail puffs up again, however no growling or hissing from either of them. I think their fight for dominance has begun. :/ I also think Peach is more aggressive because she was only sterilised two week ago, maybe her hormone levels haven't stabilised yet? I don't know. She's meowing a lot now, almost like she's in heat. I think there's a (male?) Cat outside, and that's what's causing her to be more aggressive than usual. Must I separate them rather again? Or must I keep them together and let them sort themselves out? Luckily I am here at home for the next 2-3 weeks, since I'm writing exams. So I can keep an eye on them. I'm just scared they will hurt each other. How do I deal with them if they are indeed fighting? I'm so clueless. Lol!

 

[katluver4life]

If you suspect there is another cat hanging around outside, then yes, Peach could very well be exhibiting some redirected aggression towards Rasberry. You need to get that other cat to stay away from your property. Seems like something has Peach upset. I'd also have her vet checked to be on the safe side. She could be in pain from something.

 

[meeepcosy]

Okay, so I was on the lookout for any cat in our area. I actually though it might be some of the strays or ferals in the garden below our windows (we live on the 3rd floor) that was causing Peach to get upset. Last night when we came back inside I could clearly smell that a cat had sprayed in our hallway leading up to our frontdoor. This could not have been one of the strays or ferals since they generally run away from humans, and the hallways are built closed so they would have nowhere to run. This morning I was taking out the trash, and I noticed a cat at the end of the hallway. I'm pretty sure this is the cat that's got Peach's fur in a twist. I'm also pretty sure this is a cat that belongs to one of the residents here, since I more or less know the strays and ferals in the area. The owners aren't allowed to let their pets roam free, they must be on a leash or in a carrier, so I'll in any case have to report to the building manager. I shoo'd him away, but he'll probably be back. How do I get him to stay away until we get hold of the owner? And why is Peach the only one affected by his presence? Rasberry is as chilled as ever. Haha! Peach has calmed down a bit toward Rasberry. They're playing again, but if it gets too rough I break it off. I'm alpha female of this pack dammit! Haha! we actually found them sleeping together in the same hiding spot, so things are looking up again.

I have seen those sprays you can buy that deters pets from peeing at certain places. Will that help if I spray that in and around the hallway by our frontdoor? Is there anything similiar I can buy that will deter this male from coming to our hallway completely?

Thank you for all the advice so far. I really appreciate it.

 

[eb24]

Ah yup I bet he is for sure a major contributing factor.

I wonder if Peach is reacting to him because she has lived outdoors and knows what a threat a Tom can pose. Raspberry on the other hand has never had such experiences and so doesn't know to be fearful/territorial.

I would try spritzing some of the "no spray" spray around your front door. I have also heard that oranges (I think citrus in general but I have specifically heard of oranges) act as a great deterrent. Maybe cut a few in half and squeeze them a bit to really get the smell going and then leave them in the hallway.

Since your neighbors are going to think you've lost your mind it may be beneficial to hang a sign or indicate in some other way what is going on. Once there was a cat roaming around my door who clearly belonged to one of my neighbors. I have free access to a pet tag maker and so one day I got a cheap collar and made him a tag that said "if I see your cat again I'm going to assume he is a stray and take him to the shelter." Needless to say I see him smiling from the window of his home but never outdoors anymore! (I'm not necessarily anti-outdoor cats- it's just my apartment complex is in a very dangerous area due to high traffic and high coyote volume so there is a city ordinance against any cats being left outside unsupervised). The point is if you make it known that someone is paying attention to them breaking the rules and is being negatively affected by it they may fix the problem for you.

Hopefully he will be brought in soon so homeostasis can be re-achieved!

 

[meeepcosy]

It's been a while since my last post, so I'll have to catch you guys up quickly.

Peach is fitting in nicely, despite some kind of parasite she had in her stomach (which Rasberry was infected with - 2 vet visits and a few calls and they didn't pick up that it was a parasite; but we gave them medicine, and both of them are much better now. They've been playing and chasing each other a lot.

I just want to know what is normal play behaviour? And how rough is too rough? Rasberry was initially very patient with Peach, but recently she's started to hiss at times when Peach got a bit too much. They do bite each other and sometimes they do yelp loudly. We then separate them for a while, or scold loudly once just to get them out of each others hair. They don't seem to be doing much damage, but I always worry that they might. Neither my fiancee nor I are used to 2 cats in a household, so we don't quite know if this is normal and if we should be worried and introduce them again. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[eb24]

Glad to hear things are going well with the fruit girls (that's what I call them in my head) 

I know what you mean that sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between roughhousing and fighting, and oftentimes animal play looks very aggressive to us. I suppose the rule of thumb I have always used with foster kittens (and then with Ella and Diego) is that SOME hissing/biting/crying is perfectly normal. They have to learn what the other's boundaries are and this is how they communicate when play has gone too far or that they aren't interested in interacting. But, if one hisses or cries out after a bite the other SHOULD release/back away. If they continue to go at them that's when a problem may erupt. 

Granted, there are those play sessions where they are both chasing each other and bunny kicking with light biting. Sometimes one will bite too hard and the other will cry out, only to keep on going. That too is normal, but it should just be an isolated cry. If it's more than that or one has aggressive body language toward the other then I would intervene. Otherwise, watch them closely and see if they can't work it out. 

But, in order to do that you really need to have a strong understanding of feline body language. There is a substantial difference between an "I don't want to play" hiss or a "that's too hard" cry and an "I'm being murdered" yowl. So, to really know what's going on you need to be able to read both of them and know how they are interpreting what is happening. TCS has a good article that emphasizes this point and talks about how to break up a cat fight in the event you really need to: http://www.thecatsite.com/a/breaking-up-cat-fights . There are also a lot of websites that give good pictorial illustrations of what a cat's ears and tail are telling you and you can (and should) Google to see the wide array. But, since I'm a fan of Catster I thought I would start you off and did a search over there. Hopefully by looking through some of these articles you can start deciphering what the fruit girls are trying to tell you! http://www.catster.com/search/?cx=p...08:j1dybi6opw8&cof=FORID:9&as_q=body+language . 

Keep us posted. I've enjoyed reading how this process is going for you! 

 

[sivyaleah]

Sound like things are going pretty good there for it just being under a couple of months 

  When I look back now, nearly 7 months back to when we got Cocoa, the difference in their play style is astonishing.  I was so worried Casper was going to hurt her.  Learning to relax and let them work it out really was the toughest thing for me, since I also was new to having multiple cats in the house (multiple, two, lol). 

Like EB said, squeaks, hissing and such now and then are nothing to worry about as long as the other cat backs off.  Just yesterday, Cocoa tried to step into the litter box as Casper was using it, and he gave her a firm face batting to push her off, rightly so (why they both chose to go in there when I was in there, with another box in the house is anyone's guess!).  Times like that, it's important to allow it to happen.  She needs to learn not to annoy him; there's another box for her if she needs it and if it was just her there to be nosey - she should be reprimanded by him for it.

Also, you can tell it's ok if the one that has been "harmed"d comes right back for more.  When Casper and Cocoa play, both of them use soft biting as part of their arsenal of tricks, but Casper has more than several pounds on Cocoa (although she, is far more agile!).  Now and then, he'll be able to pin her and the bite will be a little too hard to her liking.  She'll yelp, run off, he stands his ground looking confused, she runs right back and then typically....jumps him hahaha!  She's a feisty one

The few times he might seem to be dominating her too harshly, we intervene.  Usually, a loud "HEY!" is enough, with clapping of hands to break it up.  They usually will stop, sit and stare at us like "What? We're playing nice! We're cats!"  Only a couple of times have we needed to remove one or the other from the room and put them elsewhere for a cool down.  Each time, they came back and resumed play.  So, evidently they wanted to be together and hang out, it just got too rambunctious.  Overall, however, they get along really great.  There was a lot more confusion between all of us 2 months into it, than now at 7 months.  We are more relaxed about how they relate to each other now that we understand them better, and they have worked out whatever they needed to and play more equally with much less of those outbursts.  

 

[catspaw66]

I am not trying to hijack your thread, but this is typical cat play   .www.thecatsite.com/t/259106/sugar-and-spice-wrestling-in-bathtub

 

[meeepcosy]

Thank you once again for the replies! Reading your replies makes me feel a lot better. My situation actually sounds a lot like Siv's. I guess I just have to judge each situation indivdually. I'm constantly checking for raised hair, puffy tails and flat ears. I've only ever seen it once (a puffy tail, from Peach), but we then separated her for a few minutes until she calmed down. After that they played like they usually do.

I also think Rasberry might not be used to being so active, since she was so used to being an only-cat. Peach has a lot of energy. Haha! Overall they're doing okay, I think. I'll keep you guys posted! Thank you for the advice!

I laughed out loud about 'the fruit girls'. So cute! Hahaha!

And thank you for the link, I'm checking it out now. It is much appreciated.