Intestinal abnormalities and won't eat after bupe

[sidneykitty]

Me too! I just felt so reassured talking to someone who knows what they're doing and making a semi-plan and getting the results.

Right. I know I had cysts on my ovaries a few years back but boy were they painful! The doc thought I had appendicitis or gallstones but the CT scan they sent me for didn't show anything amiss. Obviously totally different, but minus the pain I was fine and they eventually went away. Cysts are such strange things.

daftcat75 That's about what I've been able to find as well. I agree the ultrasonographer would have said something were it pressing on organs. I wonder what the size of the cyst is. While the doc did not seem concerned she also did not know what might happen longterm.
Yes, I definitely want to address or rule out the mouth stuff. I mean if she doesn't/can't eat then the other stuff just doesn't matter.

It has been such a stressful and emotional last two days going from thinking she was constipated again, to thinking she was dying of cancer and going to starve herself into hepatic lipadosis, watching her anxiously pace the house and not eat under bupe to this... while I'm still unsure if she'll need some kind of surgery or if we just leave it and monitor, I do feel some relief!

I left the house for just an hour this morning and when I get home, I saw her eating again which is great. I woke up at 6:30 to the sounds of her eating, so this is good progress at the very least!

Its so hard worrying about our kitties. I woke up every 2 hours Friday night and checked on her. I've cried so many times wondering if this was the end. I just feel exhausted. And I am sure Amber does not feel any better than me. I know she is an old cat and won't live forever and I will eventually have to make the right decision for her, but I'll never be ready to say goodbye to my little girl...

Thanks for all the support and help so far. I really appreciate it very much.

 

[FeebysOwner]

As I said in my earlier post - I have a benign growth/cyst on my liver (as well as one on my adrenal gland and another one on one of my kidneys) - no pain whatsoever. Doc said they are benign, common as people age - and told me the same thing you were told, they could tell by structure/appearance. That was several years ago. I highly suspect that this happens with older cats as well. Hold off on worrying about this aspect, and see what the vet wants to discuss about Amber's possible dental issues!!

 

[sidneykitty]

Thank you FeebysOwner for sharing your own experience! I'm so glad your own cysts are not painful. Hopefully the same will be the case for Amber and it won't be anything to worry about.

Though she still isn't 100% back to normal, she emptied the bowls I set out for her this morning. I've just refilled some food for her now. Definitely having trouble with eating though. I spilled her kibble out onto a mat because she was struggling with the bowl. She ate some baby food as well. Hopefully the next steps are getting back to real food, but I'm just happy she's eating anything!

 

[sidneykitty]

Wow! Last night, Amber everything I put down! Kibble. Baby food. Cooked chicken. Baby food mixed with real wet cat food (trying to slowly get her back to real food!)

This morning she did her normal routine for the first time since Thursday. Coming downstairs with me when I wake up, following me while I make my coffee and then sitting on my lap while I have my coffee. And her tail was up! Her tail is normally always up and she is very expressive with it. I'm so relieved and so thankful right now.

This morning she even ate a little of her normal wet food. I'm not expecting her to eat it all at once since I don't know what time she last ate, but this is such great progress.

It seems the bupe really was the cause of he anorexia and strange behavior following her vet appointment and it took a full 48 hours to even begin to wear off. I will ask them to please never inject her with it again. The veet I spoke with yesterday said she'd seen it taken up to 72 hours to wear off in some cats and didn't seem to think this was an odd reaction... just crazy!

 

[FeebysOwner]

Wow! Good news!

 

[sidneykitty]

Is it possible for mouth/tooth pain to cause ear pain? She just was rubbing her ear/upper right cheek as if it hurt. I assume the nerves are all connected around here. Like when my wisdom teeth were removed I had bruising up by my eyes?

She is not excited to know she is going back to have the mouth looked at this afternoon.

 

[daftcat75]

Is it possible for mouth/tooth pain to cause ear pain? She just was rubbing her ear/upper right cheek as if it hurt. I assume the nerves are all connected around here. Like when my wisdom teeth were removed I had bruising up by my eyes?

She is not excited to know she is going back to have the mouth looked at this afternoon.

It could. All those nerves are connected. You have been feeding a lot of different foods to her lately. One of them could have ingredients she's allergic to which could cause an allergic reaction in her ears. I don't exactly know how that works. But I saw it a lot with Krista during times of "fine! eat whatever you'll eat!". Invariably, there was some chicken'ish ingredient in whatever that was that caused one of her ears to fill up with gunk.

 

[sidneykitty]

Could be. I'm going to keep an eye on it. I also remembered the mirtazapine they gave was transdermal, so I guess that could irritate her ear too.

We just got her home again. The vet just did a visual check of her mouth and did not find anything visual but that her jaw felt tense. So she said one of two things.
1. jaw arthritis - like tmj for which we are giving her Onsior for the next 3 days to see if it helps
2. a dental problem below the gum that we can't see - e.g., something like a FORL I assume - will obviously require dental xrays etc. if the Onsior doesn't help

I'm still processing this. And thinking of how to pill a cat with a sore jaw (presumably). And thinking of the fact that I did stop giving her joint glucosamine supplement for a little while. and maybe that caused arthritis to worsen. We still don't know, but again I'm relieved that she didn't find some kind of oral tumor which I was worried about.

There is no real treatment for arthritis in cats so if that is what it is, not sure what we'll do about it besides glucosamine. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Same with crossing the dental bridge when we get there. I'm trying to take it a day at a time...

 

[daftcat75]

Could be. I'm going to keep an eye on it. I also remembered the mirtazapine they gave was transdermal, so I guess that could irritate her ear too.

We just got her home again. The vet just did a visual check of her mouth and did not find anything visual but that her jaw felt tense. So she said one of two things.
1. jaw arthritis - like tmj for which we are giving her Onsior for the next 3 days to see if it helps
2. a dental problem below the gum that we can't see - e.g., something like a FORL I assume - will obviously require dental xrays etc. if the Onsior doesn't help

I'm still processing this. And thinking of how to pill a cat with a sore jaw (presumably). And thinking of the fact that I did stop giving her joint glucosamine supplement for a little while. and maybe that caused arthritis to worsen. We still don't know, but again I'm relieved that she didn't find some kind of oral tumor which I was worried about.

There is no real treatment for arthritis in cats so if that is what it is, not sure what we'll do about it besides glucosamine. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Same with crossing the dental bridge when we get there. I'm trying to take it a day at a time...

If it's FORL, and that's what you need X-rays to determine, that's going to start below the gum-line and it will continue to bother her for the rest of her life, or until you proactively remove her teeth. This is what Krista went through piecemeal throughout the last couple years. It was awful. Every few months she would stop eating. The vet would pull a few teeth and that would get her going again until the next teeth were being resorbed. Eventually the vets said, "we don't want to pull her teeth anymore. Take her to a vet dentist." I did and I'm so glad I did. Three or four different vets had been pulling teeth out of her over the last couple of years. None of them were veterinary dentists. The dentist told me that one of drilled out the teeth and left the roots. Ouch! That's where FORLs starts. That had to be painful for her. In another case, she was getting lip entrapment from her remaining canine causing an ulcer. That also had to be painful. I told the dentist, "make this the last dental procedure she'll ever need," and he agreed with me. Now she's been taking steroids for her IBD/lymphoma so she's got major munchies. But I don't see her pulling up short like she used to and I don't see the lick and wince like she used to. And she's even given me a few kissy licks now and then like she used to before her teeth were bothering her. So clearly she's happier without her mismatched teeth and the FORLs pain. So what I would recommend is get her a dental with X-rays scheduled sooner than later. If there's any sign that her teeth are going bad, get her on a vet dentist's schedule (this could take months to get an initial consultation) and let the dental professional evaluate her teeth and tell you what he recommends rather than going the piecemeal extraction route that Krista had to go down.

As for arthritis, some have success with glucosamine supplements. Krista's butt and gut do not tolerate these. It's a disaster when she takes them. Some also have success with the Assisi Loop. It's like TENS therapy for cats. Krista found it annoying and wouldn't sit still for the whole ten minute session. It also seemed to speed up her butt and gut. But for the brief time that we did try it, she seemed to get more mobility from it. It's pricey. But if it helps, can you put a price on that?

Assisi Animal Health | Pet Pain and Anxiety Treatments

 

[sidneykitty]

Yes. I was trying to think of other issues that would not be apparent by visual but I can't think of anything but FORLs. I mean my guess is you could also see arthritis on x-ray.

The vet seems hesitant to suggest a dental but did mention it as I said above. She warned me it would be expensive. But I already know that. And I told her that. And if it makes Amber feel better, then let's do it if its what's needed.

I think the other reason to hesitate is due to her reaction to the bupe. I don't think they want her under anesthetic until we know that's clear of her system and she's recovered a bit. And considering bupe is the first-line med used for dental pain.

Its strange though that she seems so hesitant. I worked at a cat hospital years ago and we LOVED dentals and recommended them a lot. Because they made cats feel better 9.5 times out of 10. And we wanted cats to feel better. But maybe she really thinks it is jaw arthritis/TMJ. I guess we'll see for a couple days how things go.

Thanks for the link. I get migraines and I've seen a bit about TENS for those. maybe if she doesn't like it I can put it on my own head. I just wonder how I would place it for her jaw.

Edit: also sorry, my brain is not processing up to par still from all the stress the last few days. I'm glad Krista's been better with no teeth! That's great! I wouldn't think of a dental specialist, but good to know.

Edit2: I also answered my own question! I crushed up some temptations in my hand, popped the Onsior tablet with them and she just gobbled it all up. That's how I used to dose my first cat, the hyperthyroid Sidney. Good job Ambie!

 

[neely]

I think the other reason to hesitate is due to her reaction to the bupe.

Sorry, I don't know if you already mentioned it but what was the dosage of the Buprenex?

I wouldn't think of a dental specialist, but good to know.

Our last cat and present cat both had FORL and were treated by a dental specialist. I cannot speak more highly of this type of specialist especially since our cat is a brachycephalic breed which makes anesthesia more tricky. As daftcat75 said, your cat would require dental x-rays to determine if there's a health issue below the gum line.

I'm glad Amber's appetite is better and hope her health continues to improve.

 

[sidneykitty]

I did not mention it. The invoice lists it as Simbadol (buprenorphine 1.8mg/ml). That's all I know.

I'm going to look into dental specialists in case its needed. Do you just google for them in your area or does your vet refer? I have a vet school in town, but I don't think they have dentists unfortunately. Its also very hard to get in there unless your animal has an excellent prognosis already.

Thank you very much for the well wishes.

 

[neely]

I'm going to look into dental specialists in case its needed. Do you just google for them in your area or does your vet refer?

We take our cat to a feline only practice and one of the vets there is a dental specialist. This should help you locate a dental specialist in your area: Find A Veterinary Specialist | AVDC.org But you can certainly discuss this with your vet. Good luck!

 

[daftcat75]

AVDC
AVDC.org | American Veterinary Dental College

Most of the dentists I contacted were booked at least two months out. I lucked out that I found one whose schedule was cleared by an active wildfire in the area. Krista and I road-tripped up there and stayed just down the street from the evacuation zones. It was a little stressful. But trying to get her to keep eating through pain for two more months was going to be a lot more stressful. We got in to see him in two weeks from when I called and he performed the procedure the same day as the consultation. We traveled back up in two weeks for a checkup that he didn’t charge us for. I’m lucky that Krista travels well.

 

[sidneykitty]

Thanks to you both! I appreciate it a lot.

It looks like my nearest one is two hours away. Amber does NOT travel well. Even a 20-minute car ride to the vet is poop and/or vomit inducing or lots of drooling at the very least. The minute she's in the box she starts wailing. I'll have to think about this. I'm sure we could do it, but I also consider "what do I want to put her through?"

I might consider the cat only clinic if she needs a dental. She had her previous one at a cat hospital and they did a great job. I tend to prefer cat only clinics but we just started going to this one accidentally after taking her for an emergency and my experience there has been largely positive. Its reassuring for me to also know there is a vet 24/7 we can take her to and they have all her records in case of emergency.

In terms of how she is doing? Remarkably better. Last night she sat on my lap again. She cleared both bowls set out overnight. She meowed at me this morning and cuddle in bed with me before chasing me around for her breakfast. I don't know if its my imagination but this morning she even appears to be having an easier time of eating.

My most imminent concern now is - where is the poop? Since she gets constipated, I am always on top of her poop. She has a poop diary so I can keep track of what's going on. So if she started eating normal amounts on Sunday, when can I expect a poop? She hasn't had one yet so it must be coming soon.... she just got another dose of Miralax yesterday after the two days of not eating and one day of me just letting her eat whatever she wanted. Hoping it comes soon because I do NOT want to take her back for constipation.

Since she's still so keen to eat, I'm being a bit sneaky and using this as an opportunity to try getting her off kibbles and onto all wet. So far, so good, but we'll see how this goes.

 

[sidneykitty]

Back with more good news - she had a poop this morning! I'm always excited for Amber poops.

She's also been meowing for more food. Its so nice to hear her meow again!

I wonder - if she was previously getting 90 cal of dry food + 90 cal of wet food to get her 180 cals per day, but now is eating almost exclusively or mostly wet food, which is 2x 3oz. cans at 87-90cal each, can I expect her to feel more hungry on wet food because of the ingredients/lack of carbs or starches?

I've never seen her eat this much wet food before. I kind of hope it lasts. I was very slowly trying to get her to 3/4:1/4 wet:dry ratio with plans to get her slowly on all wet before this all began.

Or possibly she is more hungry due to empty stomach for 2 days and/or mirtazapine still having an effect? Anybody have ideas?

Onsior night 2 went well again. I'm still feeling slightly mystified by the abnormal intestines on xray, but being totally normal on ultrasound but I assume ultrasound is way more precise.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Everyone says canned food is more filling over the long haul, as the extra carbs in dry can make one feel hungrier sooner (as with humans), but each cat is different. If she is still on the mirtazapine, then yes that would cause some additional hunger.

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, as they say. And, thank goodness for the poops! Just keep monitoring, and crossing your fingers all the while. Sometimes, there isn't an explanation for everything. But, when the results are good, you take them and run with them for as long as you can!

 

[sidneykitty]

huh. I always thought dry food would be more filling because of extra "stuff" but that makes sense, too!

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, as they say. And, thank goodness for the poops! Just keep monitoring, and crossing your fingers all the while. Sometimes, there isn't an explanation for everything. But, when the results are good, you take them and run with them for as long as you can!

YES. I am.
If she's happy, I'm happy.

 

[daftcat75]

huh. I always thought dry food would be more filling because of extra "stuff" but that makes sense, too!


YES. I am.
If she's happy, I'm happy.

Don't quote me on this.

But I think dry food is "filling" because cats don't digest it well. They don't have as much amylase (carb digesting enzyme) as herbivores/omnivores have. I shudder to think how Krista ate dry food alone for a dozen years because I didn't know any better. She probably nibbled frequently in between bouts of indigestion.

Fat is filling. Cats use fat for energy.

 

[sidneykitty]

Hmm could be. She is/was also on fiber dry food so maybe it made her feel more full?