In DESPERATE need of help! (Really.) Cat won't use litter box.

[frenchqtrchef]

So I have a black female cat.  Very tiny and petite.  Sweet as she can be, but she hasn't used the litter box in almost a year.  We live in a tiny house that stays fairly cluttered because we've totally outgrown it and there's just not enough room, and we have a lot of things in large storage bins.  When she pees, EVERYTHING has to be moved because the pee gets under the storage bins, and it's a huge ordeal.  The house is also not level, so the pee tends to run underneath the furniture and appliances.  We have a file folder on top of a chest freezer and she has peed on top of the freezer and ruined the important papers.  I feel like we'll never get the smell out of the house.  

Things that may be of note:  We have another cat, a male who is one year older than her.  She has lived with him her entire life.  They don't really spend a lot of time together but neither cat is aggressive and they never fight.  We got a dog 5 years ago and a second dog 3 years ago and the cats have basically just kind of kept to themselves since the dogs arrived.  The male cat is missing teeth from some previous dental issues.  She has an allergy to most dry foods, and before we discovered the allergy, she would groom herself nonstop, to the point where her fur would fall out and she would even bleed in spots.  I have since started feeding both of them nothing but wet food, and she has thrived - her black fur has all grown back and is silky and shiny and beautiful.  

We have used only non-clumping litter for many, many years now because we had a 3rd cat who was diabetic and I had to test his urine regularly, and the vet said it had to be done with the non-clumping litter.  Since it's inexpensive, I kept using it after the diabetic cat passed away.  The litter box does not get cleaned every day, but my husband changes it every two days - three days max - and changes the entire thing when he does.  But the issue can't be that the litter box is too dirty because she will pee right in front of it right after it's been cleaned!  (She did this again just this morning!)  The male cat is so good with the litter box - we actually joke that he would use the box even if it was so full that he had to hold onto the sides.  We have a two story house, with a litter box on each floor, and she goes in front of the box on the second floor as well.  

There have been no major changes in her life since the addition of the last dog in 2012 except for the switch to wet food and a switch to scoopable litter, because I read on another forum that cats like to feel a sandy texture on their paws and sometimes the non-clumping litter can feel like rocks on their tender pads.  On that forum I also read suggestions to leave the cover off the litter box, and to use cat attract.  I have tried both/all of the above and she still won't use the box.  I suppose part of the problem could be that the floor still smells like pee in front of the box, but I am hesitant to move the box because number one, we don't really have another place to put it in our small house, and number two, it's been in that same spot for 8 years now and I'm afraid that she will still go in that spot even if the box isn't there.  

I'm at my wits end and don't know what else to do.  I can't fathom getting rid of her; she's 15 years old and I'm the only family she's ever known, but to say that it has become stressful is an understatement.  It's at the point where it's causing problems in my marriage.  My husband wants to try putting her outside (she has not been declawed) and making her an inside/outside cat, but the thought really scares me - we live in the middle of a large, busy city and I don't want anything to happen to her.  She doesn't seem to have any desire to go outside.  She's very timid and I worry that something will scare her off and I'll never see her again.  And if she does go outside, is that going to piss off our male cat??  I know that might be a silly question but I'm trying to cover all the bases here.  His front paws are declawed so going outside is out of the question for him.  

Suggestions would be very appreciated.  I can give more info if necessary.  I feel like we're in a no-win situation here and it's becoming very depressing!  

 

[Columbine]

She's 15. The problem has come up in the last year. I assume you've checked for uti's etc. The next thing to consider is the box itself. Is it deep (and therefore high sided)? I'm just thinking maybe she's getting stiffer and is finding it harder to get into the box. There are deep boxes on the market with a lower front edge to make it easier for the cat to access. Could be worth a try.

Next thing is, do you use an enzymatic cleaner when she goes outside the box? That will remove all scent of urine from outside the box and so remove any 'markers' that tell her it's the right place to go.

I know you think not cleaning the box every day isn't an issue, but it still isn't ideal to do it every 2-3 days. A quick scoop a couple of times a day needn't take long. I honestly don't think you can write off that reason until you try daily (ideally twice daily) scooping. You wouldn't want to use a loo someone had used first and not flushed - why should a cat be any different?

If all else fails, try using puppy pads in front of the box (placed so the front of the tray is on top, but leaving a good amount in front). We had a male cat who always went in the box but every so often managed to aim his pee out the door!(he and his brother insisted on a covered one and wouldn't go if we removed the top If it hadn't been for that we'd have just got a bigger box). The puppy pads would catch any 'overflow' and protect the floor. Please do look at the other options too though. Puppy pads by themselves are a 'sticking plaster' solution - you owe it to your girl to identify the root of the problem too

 

[frenchqtrchef]

Thanks for the reply.  I have not had her checked for a UTI though after a year, surely that can't be the issue?!  I have had experience with UTIs in one of my cats and she does not exhibit any of the symptoms.  She never seems like she's in any distress or pain.  The box is indeed high-sided though it does have a lower front, like you said.  I have not used those kind of cleaners yet but I did recently order Urine-Off and Nature's Miracle for cats from Amazon, and they should arrive today.  I am very anxious to see if these help.  I do know that changing the box every 2-3 days isn't ideal; however, I was simply trying to make the point that it doesn't seem to matter whether the litter box is full or clean, she just will not use it.  Since switching to scoopable litter we do scoop it twice a day.  Puppy pads are a great idea for in front of the litter box and I think I will use that suggestion!  But she does pee in other areas of the house as well.  (After re-reading my post I realize maybe I wasn't clear enough about that.)  

 

[Columbine]

I hadn't realised she peed elsewhere too. I'm not saying it is a uti - just that it's the first and most obvious thing to rule out. I've no experience of female uti issues, so I'm afraid I can't help you there.

Is there any chance your other cat us making her feel unable to use the box? Dynamics do change as cats age, the balance of power (so to speak) can shift, and issues can appear where there were none before.

If there's one specific place she pees elsewhere in the house, it could be worth placing a third box there. Easier said than done,I know, especially if you're short of space.

It could also be that she's getting 'caught short' and can't make it to a box in time.

Any chance there are new outdoor cats in the area marking your house and making her feel terratorially threatened? A black light may help you identify possible outdoor scent markings, as well as aiding really thourough indoor clean up from past 'accidents'

I don't know...There are so many possible causes for litter box issues. I really would get a vet check though, so that you can rule out any physical issues.

I absolutely agree that it wouldn't be fair or right to make her indoor/outdoor at her age. The chances are that she won't know how to look after herself if she gets into trouble out there.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help. Puppy pads should at least make clean up easier whilst you get to he bottom of the problem.

I really hope you can find a solution soon

 

[shadowsrescue]

The first step is to get her to the vet to rule out any health issues.  You need to know if there could be an underlying issue.

Secondly, how many litter boxes do you have?  The golden rule is one box per cat plus one extra.  Since you have more than one cat, you need more than one litter box.  If my cat was peeing all over the place, I would put litter boxes all over the place.  Try some Dr. Elsey's Litter Attract to attract her to the box.

You need a good enzymatic cleaner or she will continue to pee over and over again in the same place.  My guess is that you are missing lots of spots. 

Puppy pee pads can be helpful, but they will not do anything to encourage her to use the litter box.  Try using a large storage box instead.  It might give her more room.

Also the litter box needs to be changed DAILY.  You have 2 cats and sometimes the box doesn't get changed for 2-3 days.

Here is an article on litter box issues as well a a video.

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/litterbox-problems-in-cats-the-ultimate-guide

 

[margd]

Columbine has given you some great advice.  I agree you should take your girl to the vet.  You definitely want to get the UTI ruled out but there might be other reasons associated with aging.  Could dementia be an issue?  Loss of bladder control?  Arthritis? 

Definitely don't make her an inside/outside cat.  First:  it would be dangerous and frightening to her.  Second:  there is no reason to believe she'd stop peeing inside so what you're really talking about is making her an outside only cat.  That seems cruel to me. 

I really sympathize with you.  I have dealt with several situations where I couldn't change the cat's behavior.  In one case it was a female who would only poop next to the box and in the other it was 2 neutered males with territorial issues.(I didn't know about Felway diffusers).   With another female, I  once had to keep a litter box in the living room so it was the first thing guests saw because that was The Spot and no amount of clean-up (didn't know about Nature's Miracle at the time) would work.   I know exactly the horror of having important papers peed on. Ultimately, because I lived alone, I was able to make the decision to just live with it and clean up the best I could.  I hope you are able to find the solution. 

The puppy pads are a great idea. 

 

[tulosai]

I don't want to beat the 'see a vet' issue to death, but you definitely, especially at her age, really need to go to the vet to rule out any underlying issues.  It could be a UTI (yes, even after a year and even with the only symptom being her peeing outside the box) but it could also be kidney problems, diabetes, and a whole host of other medical issues, particularly since this was not a problem before the past year and she is so old.

The only other thing I'd say that hasn't been covered is that she is really MUCH too old to be transitioned to an indoor/outdoor cat, especially with her personality. 

Good luck and vibes.

 

[gizmocat1]

I agree with the others telling you to get her checked out as my old cat of 18 years used to struggle with the litter box so we went to get her checked out. first to make sure there wasn't a more worrying problem.

The tips I would suggest are the ones we tried to stop her peeing everywhere, some are similar to the others...

Firstly, we added the little trays (see the picture) for her instead of the big litter boxes, partly because they are more portable and partly so we weren't loosing out on too much space round the house! We tried putting the two trays in her most regular 'pee places' and the tried the gentle approach of placing her in front of the tray, letting her sniff it and every now and then placing her inside it so that she understood it was for her.  We tried to keep our other two cats away from this box, although they usually went outside any ways.  

72B4C344-0E87-488C-8BF1-6615CDD20943.jpg

• gizmocat1
• Apr 16, 2015

We then tried the sprays to remove her smell over the house, and put training pads down too to catch any little accidents.  

When it came to the litter we tried one with old newspapers inside so that she could scratch them when using the tray, and one without just with litter.  We tried a range of litters, settling on the wood pellets as she seemed to like these. 

As one of her 'pee places' were also inside my plant pot, I tried adding some soil to the trays to see if that would encourage her, which it did! 

It took a lot of patience, training and rewarding but after about a month, we did manage to get her back to using the trays!

I can understand your husband wanting to kick her out, but please don't, especially with her being old as it would be too much for her.  Encourage her gently and hopefully some of the same tricks work for you too! Failing that, maybe you could try talking to your vet about her as it could be something they can advise you on.

Hope it works out for you! 

 

 

[blackcat416]

Natures Miracle used full strength will clean all the urine scent up. I think there is another issue other then a UTI as well. Could be the last dog, change of food or just no night light at light. Where does she go poo? Have you picked her up, put her in the box and dig the litter with one of her paws. Worth a try just to remind her that this is the litter box.

I have 6 cats, with 6 NatureMiracle litter boxes that are triangles they are very high sided. I use wheat scoop litter and clean all the boxes daily. Accidents don't happen unless there is a change they are protesting. I would try another cheap clay litter if cost is an issue. When I switched to Swheat Scoop I had several protest pee's. Then they all got retrained with one paw burying the litter and no more protest pee's.

Also since it's so long now that she is peeing outside the box, retraining would be strongly recommended. Keep that lid off as well, cats hate to smell like the litter box and that's what lids cause.

 

[feralvr]

.  The box is indeed high-sided though it does have a lower front,

Some excellent help and suggestions going on here! I wanted to add, and sorry if this was already mentioned, BUT you say "the box". Meaning one box. I think at this point, I would add at least two more large open boxes in the house. I know you mention that space if very limited but many cats prefer their own box or prefer to pee in one and poop in another.

Dr. Elseys litter would also be another option to try. OR even using the Dr. Elsey's Cat Attractant herbal mixture. You can really add that to any clumping litter.

I think at this point, there is so much urine soaked into the floors that even using an enzymatic cleaner will not thoroughly get rid of the smell but surely I agree that you should try. Here is a great article on Cat Urine cleaning. http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-remove-cat-urine

I also think she needs a urinalysis or even a urine culture as others have mentioned. This could very well be a health related issue. BEST OF LUCK to you and to your kitty. Keep us posted.

 

[frenchqtrchef]

I hadn't realised she peed elsewhere too. I'm not saying it is a uti - just that it's the first and most obvious thing to rule out. I've no experience of female uti issues, so I'm afraid I can't help you there.

Is there any chance your other cat us making her feel unable to use the box? Dynamics do change as cats age, the balance of power (so to speak) can shift, and issues can appear where there were none before.

If there's one specific place she pees elsewhere in the house, it could be worth placing a third box there. Easier said than done,I know, especially if you're short of space.

It could also be that she's getting 'caught short' and can't make it to a box in time.

Any chance there are new outdoor cats in the area marking your house and making her feel terratorially threatened? A black light may help you identify possible outdoor scent markings, as well as aiding really thourough indoor clean up from past 'accidents'

I don't know...There are so many possible causes for litter box issues. I really would get a vet check though, so that you can rule out any physical issues.

I absolutely agree that it wouldn't be fair or right to make her indoor/outdoor at her age. The chances are that she won't know how to look after herself if she gets into trouble out there.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help. Puppy pads should at least make clean up easier whilst you get to he bottom of the problem.

I really hope you can find a solution soon

I hadn't realised she peed elsewhere too. I'm not saying it is a uti - just that it's the first and most obvious thing to rule out. I've no experience of female uti issues, so I'm afraid I can't help you there.

Is there any chance your other cat us making her feel unable to use the box? Dynamics do change as cats age, the balance of power (so to speak) can shift, and issues can appear where there were none before.

If there's one specific place she pees elsewhere in the house, it could be worth placing a third box there. Easier said than done,I know, especially if you're short of space.

It could also be that she's getting 'caught short' and can't make it to a box in time.

Any chance there are new outdoor cats in the area marking your house and making her feel terratorially threatened? A black light may help you identify possible outdoor scent markings, as well as aiding really thourough indoor clean up from past 'accidents'

I don't know...There are so many possible causes for litter box issues. I really would get a vet check though, so that you can rule out any physical issues.

I absolutely agree that it wouldn't be fair or right to make her indoor/outdoor at her age. The chances are that she won't know how to look after herself if she gets into trouble out there.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help. Puppy pads should at least make clean up easier whilst you get to he bottom of the problem.

I really hope you can find a solution soon

I've never seen the male cat make her feel bullied at all, around the litter box or otherwise.  But the peeing outside of the box usually happens when no one is at home.  I get what you're saying about a balance of power shift, though.  So cats marking territory OUTSIDE would make her feel threatened??  There are indeed two or three neighbor cats who regularly roam around on our block, but this is nothing new, and they've been doing that for years.  

 

[frenchqtrchef]

 
Secondly, how many litter boxes do you have?  The golden rule is one box per cat plus one extra.  Since you have more than one cat, you need more than one litter box.  If my cat was peeing all over the place, I would put litter boxes all over the place.  Try some Dr. Elsey's Litter Attract to attract her to the box.

You need a good enzymatic cleaner or she will continue to pee over and over again in the same place.  My guess is that you are missing lots of spots. 

Also the litter box needs to be changed DAILY.  You have 2 cats and sometimes the box doesn't get changed for 2-3 days.

With all due respect, I feel like you didn't read my post well at all.  

As I mentioned in the original post, I have one box upstairs and one box downstairs.  She will not use either one.  I also said that I have tried the litter attract.  I also said that I had ordered a couple of enzymatic cleaners from Amazon and was waiting for them to be delivered, so I have not used one yet.  

As for the box being changed every 2 to 3 days, that wasn't really an invitation for criticism; I simply added that information because I figured someone would ask how often it gets changed.  We have an unspoken deal in our house where I clean up after the people who live there and he cleans up after the pets.  It works pretty well except that every couple of months he has to work 12 hour days for 13 days in a row, so there are definitely some things that get put on the back burner.  I try to step in and help where I can by walking the dogs and such, but I have my own overfilled plate to deal with as well; that's life.  I also said that it doesn't matter how full the litter box is or how clean it is - she won't use it even when it's freshly changed.  My husband changed it Tuesday night and we woke up yesterday morning to pee on the floor in front of the box and a puddle of pee under the dining room table.  

Yes, I do have two cats, but only one is using the box.  I also said that since switching to the non-clumping litter we have been scooping the box out twice a day.  

 

[frenchqtrchef]

 
Columbine has given you some great advice.  I agree you should take your girl to the vet.  You definitely want to get the UTI ruled out but there might be other reasons associated with aging.  Could dementia be an issue?  Loss of bladder control?  Arthritis? 

Definitely don't make her an inside/outside cat.  First:  it would be dangerous and frightening to her.  Second:  there is no reason to believe she'd stop peeing inside so what you're really talking about is making her an outside only cat.  That seems cruel to me. 

I really sympathize with you.  I have dealt with several situations where I couldn't change the cat's behavior.  In one case it was a female who would only poop next to the box and in the other it was 2 neutered males with territorial issues.(I didn't know about Felway diffusers).   With another female, I  once had to keep a litter box in the living room so it was the first thing guests saw because that was The Spot and no amount of clean-up (didn't know about Nature's Miracle at the time) would work.   I know exactly the horror of having important papers peed on. Ultimately, because I lived alone, I was able to make the decision to just live with it and clean up the best I could.  I hope you are able to find the solution. 

The puppy pads are a great idea. 

You might have something there, with the arthritis suggestion.  Often when she stands, her hind legs are not straight and are somewhat... "crouched", for lack of a better term at the moment.  She doesn't walk completely on the hocks but she does walk a bit low to the ground half the time.  I guess that would suggest that she physically cannot get into the litter box, but she has no problems jumping up onto a chair/couch/bed!  

I told my husband that - that just because she is outside during the day doesn't mean she won't pee once she gets back in!  

What are Felway diffusers??  Nature's Miracle is one of the cleaners I have ordered.  I assume it works well?  

 

[frenchqtrchef]

Natures Miracle used full strength will clean all the urine scent up. I think there is another issue other then a UTI as well. Could be the last dog, change of food or just no night light at light. Where does she go poo? Have you picked her up, put her in the box and dig the litter with one of her paws. Worth a try just to remind her that this is the litter box.

I have 6 cats, with 6 NatureMiracle litter boxes that are triangles they are very high sided. I use wheat scoop litter and clean all the boxes daily. Accidents don't happen unless there is a change they are protesting. I would try another cheap clay litter if cost is an issue. When I switched to Swheat Scoop I had several protest pee's. Then they all got retrained with one paw burying the litter and no more protest pee's.

Also since it's so long now that she is peeing outside the box, retraining would be strongly recommended. Keep that lid off as well, cats hate to smell like the litter box and that's what lids cause.

I have not tried putting her in the box but that does seem like a good idea.  She will not poo in the box either.  

  

So happy to hear that Natures Miracle is that great - that's one of the cleaners I ordered!  

LOL @ "protest pees"!  

 

[Columbine]

The vast majority of cat to cat communication is silent. Visible bullying occurs when things have escalated a fair amount. A cat can move another cat just by sitting (seemingly) calmly and maintaining eye contact. A huge amount is 'said' by scent too. All I'm saying is that your male could be making her feel uncomfortable without you ever being aware of things changing.

Indoor cats certainly can pick up on outside cats marking the property, and it can cause major behavioural issues. There was a My Cat From Hell episode (if not several) dealing with a major urination issue that was largely triggered by a feral cat marking the house. I'm afraid I can't find the episode on YouTube, but I'm sure it's there somewhere!

I'm not there - I can't tell you the exact cause..I can only offer possibilities. I know we've all kept saying it, but a vet visit really has to be the start point. Physical issues have to be ruled out first - for me that's an essential step in retraining /addressing behaviour problems in any animal. You can't treat the symptom without addressing the root of the problem. I really hope there isn't anything physical going on with your girl, but you have to be sure.

 

[frenchqtrchef]

Some excellent help and suggestions going on here! I wanted to add, and sorry if this was already mentioned, BUT you say "the box". Meaning one box. I think at this point, I would add at least two more large open boxes in the house. I know you mention that space if very limited but many cats prefer their own box or prefer to pee in one and poop in another.

Dr. Elseys litter would also be another option to try. OR even using the Dr. Elsey's Cat Attractant herbal mixture. You can really add that to any clumping litter.

I think at this point, there is so much urine soaked into the floors that even using an enzymatic cleaner will not thoroughly get rid of the smell but surely I agree that you should try. Here is a great article on Cat Urine cleaning. http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-remove-cat-urine

I also think she needs a urinalysis or even a urine culture as others have mentioned. This could very well be a health related issue. BEST OF LUCK to you and to your kitty. Keep us posted.

We have two boxes, one upstairs and one downstairs.  I've been saying "the" box because she spends most of her time downstairs and that's the only box that the other cat uses, so it's like the "main" box.  I have not tried Dr. Elseys litter but have tried the litter attract and she could not have cared less.  The male cat seemed curious about it but he's extremely good about using the box and I never have any issues with him.  

Thank you for the link - I am anxious to check it out!  

 

[frenchqtrchef]

The vast majority of cat to cat communication is silent. Visible bullying occurs when things have escalated a fair amount. A cat can move another cat just by sitting (seemingly) calmly and maintaining eye contact. A huge amount is 'said' by scent too. All I'm saying is that your male could be making her feel uncomfortable without you ever being aware of things changing.

Indoor cats certainly can pick up on outside cats marking the property, and it can cause major behavioural issues. There was a My Cat From Hell episode (if not several) dealing with a major urination issue that was largely triggered by a feral cat marking the house. I'm afraid I can't find the episode on YouTube, but I'm sure it's there somewhere!

I'm not there - I can't tell you the exact cause..I can only offer possibilities. I know we've all kept saying it, but a vet visit really has to be the start point. Physical issues have to be ruled out first - for me that's an essential step in retraining /addressing behaviour problems in any animal. You can't treat the symptom without addressing the root of the problem. I really hope there isn't anything physical going on with your girl, but you have to be sure.

Point definitely taken regarding a vet visit.  

How on earth can I stop the outside cats from marking the property??

 

[Columbine]

Feliway is a synthetic version of the 'happy' scent pheromones that cats excrete when marking by kneading or rubbing their cheek against something. It's also excreted by a momma cat to her kittens to make them feel secure. It's a great tool when addressing any problem behaviour as it can reduce stress levels in all the cats in the house - sometimes the Feliway by itself can be enough to restore peace to the household. It doesn't work for every cat, but it makes a big difference to the ones it does work for (hope that makes sense). You can get it on amazon, from your vet's or in other online stores (usually ones that stock animal medication).

 

[Columbine]

There are a range of cat deterrents to keep unwanted cats away - some kind of spray may be best in your case, but there are other options out there too.

The absolute best option is to TNR the local ferals - its tom cats that have the strongest scent - but I appreciate that may not be viable.

 

[kittywhiskers]

Hi I've just been reading through this thread and noticed that you said that your cat's back legs are sometimes 'crouched' as you put it.
I really don't want to alarm you but I remember reading somewhere once about cat diabetes and walking in a crouched position as well as inappropriate urination are a couple of the symptoms.
Given her age this could be worth looking into.
I wonder, does she drink a lot too?

I found this link on cat diabetes you might like to read.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2130&aid=199

Like I said I really dont want to alarm you and I might be totally wrong but like a lot of other posters have said already, a visit to the vet to rule out anything medical.