I am unsure where to go next with introducing the new cat

Cf24248

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I have three resident cats. A bonded pair of young females (The Kittens, even though they're 1.5yrs), and an adult male, roughly 4 years (Ori). A new young adult male (2ish years) cat showed up on Halloween. He's been dubbed Fruit Loop. He was neutered at the end of December. House is full of Feliway diffusers and both cats in question wear the purple pheromone collars.

Introductions have stalled. Fruit Loop okay with the kittens, though he doesn't understand the concept of "play fighting" yet - Coming from outside, all fighting was real fighting, and as such when one of the girls initiates play wrestling he tends to turn it into a real fight. Luckily, the kittens are submissive and will generally detangle and just avoid him (though they will come to groom or lay with him). Fruit Loop likes them. The kittens generally would rather hang out with each other anyways, so they're fine leaving Loop to his own devices and letting him adjust.

The problem is Ori. He's always been a more dominant cat but he's also a coward and that comes out as aggression. Loop also likes Ori, and wants to meet him. I will put Fruit Loop on a harness and bring him out in my lap for meetings. As long as it's Ori approaching Fruit Loop, it goes fine. Ori will approach, sniff noses. He will lay within paw's reach and sleep. However, as soon as Fruit Loop goes to approach Ori - Or even shift in his direction - Ori loses it, usually hisses pretty nastily and sometimes swats, and then bolts. (One time he laid in my lap and quite literally laid on Fruit Loop, so Loop went to groom him like a nice cat.... Boy did that make Ori angry). Ori is only okay with it if he is the one dictating the interaction. Which is what I was going for initially to let him get over his fear, but progress has more or less stopped.

Honestly, I would be fine with that and letting him warm up on his own and letting the cats free, but the hiss/swat/bolt kind of flips Fruit Loop's switch into tussle mode, and he will bolt after Ori and if he catches up it's a bit of a fight and that sets us WAY back. That's why Fruit Loop is on a harness and lead. I'm also a little worried that once off the harness, Fruit Loop will try to approach Ori because he wants to meet him and will trigger these situations.

He hates his harness and is a little bit cranky on it. Plus, after the initial sniff, Ori tends to just stay away and lurk from a bit of distance, which doesn't get us anywhere. I can't keep trying with the harness - I can't babysit them all day, Fruit Loop gets agitated after being in it for so long - It isn't sustainable. I'm not sure where to go from here though. We're so close to him being a free cat. A big kennel in the living room so he can be down here but firmly separated? A pack and play with a lid? Ori needs to get accustomed to him and ease his fear, but I need a better way to do it than the harness. Poor Fruit Loop is locked away in his own room all day and I feel terribly about it. I want them to be loose!

Other relevant info - There's plenty of resources (litter box, water). They are all fed separately in different rooms. No litter boxes are in an area that a cat can guard them or harass any other cats. This house is pretty big, and it's entirely catered to the cats. We even have wall mounted furniture. So there's plenty of space, resources, high and low spots for them.
 

FeebysOwner

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If their interactions do not lead to actual fights - blood drawn, hair being pulled out, are you sure there is a real problem here? If I understand correctly, even after each tussle, Ori still instigates interactions with Fruit Loop, he just wants it on his own terms and Fruit Loop doesn't stop trying to instigate his own interactions. But, none of them lead to anything other than hissing/batting/running?
Are either of their health/welfare being negatively impacted? Does Fruit Loop appear fearful of Ori, or vice versa?

I guess if it were me, I'd put a gate up, presumably between Fruit Loop's safe room and the rest of the house and start taking turns with whom is on each side of the gate - and see what happens. The swapping between these two locations is something that needs to be done more than just once a day. None of these cats should be confined to a single room - especially without company - for longer than a couple/few hours.

I don't know if you already know about TCS' article on introductions, but in case you don't, and it can give you any additional tips - here is it is.
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide - TheCatSite Articles
 

Furballsmom

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Hi
I want them to be loose!
They are doing a lot better than you think they are. I personally think that you are going to have to take the leap of faith and let them loose to continue to work things out on a catly level. If there's actual fur and blood, then as mentioned you'll want to separate them. Until that occurs, you'll need to avoid hovering :)
 
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Cf24248

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I'm not sure if there's fur or blood because I haven't let it happen. If Fruit Loop chases, they will fight - I don't know to what extent, but last time it was a small tussle that I immediately separated Ori went full "Hide behind the couch and growl at everyone" and was aggressive during their next interactions to the degree that we had to take a lot of steps back in the process.

We do swap rooms! there's two rooms Fruit Loop swaps between, and Ori gets to roam in the one that's open. Sometimes Ori is shut in there and Loop gets run of the house. We had a gate in the door, but there's seemingly some weird gate aggression going on with Ori and he will sit and throw himself against it growling and hissing. I'm usually really good at reading cat body language, but I am having such a hard time with him...

I'm terrified that if I let them entirely loose and they genuinely fight I'm back to square one, except this time it's harder because they have the negative association with one another. I can deal with wrestling for their place, but I want to get far enough that there will be no true fighting before I let them loose together and I just can't guarantee that yet...
 
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FeebysOwner

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IMO, if Ori is throwing himself at the gate - which is new information, unless I missed it somehow - does he do that on both sides of the gate or just when he is in the 'more confined' area?

Get some pillows and some cardboard, let them be in the same area, and watch what happens, and then intervene if it gets 'ugly'. You will at least know if you have to go back again, maybe not to Square One, but you have got to figure out where they are in their progress with each other.
 
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Cf24248

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He does it on both sides of the gate. The more we cover the gate (aka the less he can see) the more aggressive he is. I guess we haven't tried the gate entirely uncovered yet....

You're right, maybe I should just let them be and see what happens. Maybe the next time my husband and I are both home to intervene.... It sounds anxiety inducing, lol
 

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He does it on both sides of the gate. The more we cover the gate (aka the less he can see) the more aggressive he is. I guess we haven't tried the gate entirely uncovered yet....

You're right, maybe I should just let them be and see what happens. Maybe the next time my husband and I are both home to intervene.... It sounds anxiety inducing, lol
I agree. What my partner and I did was let Magnus out and we would kind of follow the cats around a bit. Lots of treats for any interaction, even eye contact and then looking away. Also treats for both if someone hissed but went no further, especially if the other cat stopped forward movement or backed off. (We used a different kind of dry food rather than a true treat)

We would just scoop Magnus if Nobel started to growl, but you could use a cardboard square or something as well.

Lots of catnip around, maybe some new toys to watch together or some other kinds of novel enrichment for out times. Really have them associate family time with being altogether.

Cat calming music with purring is a 100% recommendation. Music stops them being being on edge for every sound and the purring is a source of comfort. Any streaming service has these. I can post Magnus's playlist if you want as well 🐱
 
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Cf24248

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I agree. What my partner and I did was let Magnus out and we would kind of follow the cats around a bit. Lots of treats for any interaction, even eye contact and then looking away. Also treats for both if someone hissed but went no further, especially if the other cat stopped forward movement or backed off. (We used a different kind of dry food rather than a true treat)

We would just scoop Magnus if Nobel started to growl, but you could use a cardboard square or something as well.

Lots of catnip around, maybe some new toys to watch together or some other kinds of novel enrichment for out times. Really have them associate family time with being altogether.

Cat calming music with purring is a 100% recommendation. Music stops them being being on edge for every sound and the purring is a source of comfort. Any streaming service has these. I can post Magnus's playlist if you want as well 🐱

I'd love the playlist! I got nervous and set up a gigantic dog crate with blankets and a litterbox to put Fruit Loop in while I work. So, I'm currently on the couch working with the kennel next to me and Loop curled up inside. It's the second time I've used it - This time Ori approached a little farther, did some sniffs, and turned into a loaf right next to it (about a foot away from Loop). I take this as a good sign, even though every time Loop even twitches an ear Ori gets giant pupils and tenses up. Currently playing them some music with purrs between work calls. I'd totally take the playlist suggestion!

I think if this keeps up I'll try letting them loose a bit at the middle/end of the week. Ori is very clearly curious - He's just scared, and doesn't know how to channel that except into defensiveness. I'm trying real hard to go at a pace he is comfortable with.
 

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Sounds like it's going very well!

I keep the playlist up to date as we find new things. Unfortunately, one song was no longer available.
 
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Cf24248

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Update, it's been going okayish in the carrier. Ori is getting more confident with approaching.... But for whatever reason when Fruit Loop used the litter box in there to pee Ori went full on back to hissing, lol. But, baby steps - We're getting there!
 
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Cf24248

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More update - Today was the first time I let him loose. Ori was NOT happy - Saw him across the house, full body poof up, and immediately hissed and started the low angry growl, gigantic murder pupils. I gave him a few pets and went to sit with Fruit Loop across the room, who feels very insecure, and played with him. Loop would try to approach and get hissed at and back away.

By the end, he could get a little closer - maybe 10 feet apart - and Ori would just watch (tensely). Eventually Fruit Loop opted to go back into his crate, which is his safe space, so I shut the door.

Slowly, Ori started to creep closer to the crate. Creep creep, sit. Until he was next to it. Loop ignored him to groom. Ori rubbed a cheek on the crate.

Eventually, he crept to the front and slowly flopped over onto his side, and reached a little paw in the crate like he wanted to play! He didn't stay long and Loopy didn't notice (gotta get that grooming in) before Ori wandered off but I'm so happy! He's obviously curious but is so scared. I think I'll continue doing this - Let Fruit Loop out for a bit until he retreats or starts getting anxious, then let him sit in his crate and observe for a bit until Ori calms down enough.
 
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Cf24248

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No murder pupils today! Just the Pupils of Judgement as I played with Fruit Loop with string toy. No hissing either - He just watched from across the room. Once I put Fruit back into this kennel, Ori cam over to sniff with minimal bristling.
 
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Cf24248

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Today update! Each day Ori is getting better. They were out today for a bit, and Ori only hisses when he's close now. And when there's cheese involved, well, cheese overcomes all animosity - as you can see by the picture, lol. (Of course after the cheese was done there was hissing... But, baby steps, haha)

Ori is the big black cat, Fruit Loop is the tabby
20230306_092826.jpg
 

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They are adorable. Thanks for sharing the photo! I'm glad they are making progress.
 
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Cf24248

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Ugh... It WAS going well.....

I got to the point that I would bring Fruit Loop downstairs for some supervised free roam time. Ori would hiss initially, but warm up to it with just being wary and a hiss if Loop got too close. He even tried to initiate play yesterday (and then got upset when Loop took the invite and jumped on him).

Today, all of them were out and Fruit Loop and Mochi started wrestling. Fruit Loop doesn't understand play fighting and it turned into an actual fight (on his end). I saw it coming and was over there grabbing Fruit Loop before it got too far. Funny enough, my main concern was Ori. He is fiercely protective of his kittens, and he came over fur bristling and fully ready to fight - murder pupils, howling. I had picked Fruit Loop up at this point... And Ori LAUNCHED himself at Loop! I turned so Ori only got a (very, very deep) chomp into my arm and then dropped to the floor, bristling and yowling. I chased him off, put Fruit Loop in his kennel, and went to wash my (very bloody) arm.

I'm so sad... I'm starting to wonder what if Loop never learns play wrestling? What if he always treats it like a fight? Ugh. Once I cleaned up the bite mark - I originally thought it was claws, but there's two very neat puncture wounds teeth-spaced apart - I grabbed the treat bag and gave everybody some treats next to Loop in the kennel to bring back some positive association. Everyone was good. I'm not worried about Mochi, the kittens are resilient and she's already been over there sticking her feet in his kennel trying to boop him... But that was a HUGE trust tarnish for Ori. Next time he comes out it will be on a harness just to be safe.

Also - Don't worry, I am very aware of the seriousness of this bite wound. I work in medicine, as well as having some very clear memories of my mom getting the "creeping up the arm red line" blood infection from a cat bite when I was young. I will take care of it and at the first sign of issue, I'm going to go in for antibiotics.
 
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