Hyperthyroid And Old Kidneys

[laura mae]

Today was Scoobaby's annual vet visit day. I also had them do a senior panel to see where he might be on the hyperthyroid issue and to check other things too. He's 16. We're going to try the methimazole again. Last time didn't go so well. And I have to be careful about his food and avoid high phosphorus. Kidney levels are "slightly elevated" which means they are probably actually higher and hidden by the hyperthyroid. The vet advised low phosphorus commercial cat food for now. I've been on the Tanya's kidney site for a while. So much information. The vet said that look for plain meat with meat broth and no thickeners like guar gum.

Background:Two years ago he reacted badly to the hyperthyroid medicine, but was also getting a course of antibiotics (he accidently snorted some crumbled chicken topper and ended up with an infection). He stopped eating and became lethargic. I didn't know which medication was causing the problem. At the time, one of the vets at the same practice we were at today said that the type of antibiotic he had "didn't cause inappetence." So I kept with the antibiotic and syringe fed him for a few days and stopped the methimazole.

Today's vet at the same practice talked me into trying it again. I sure hope it works. She also said she might be able to remove the problem nodule. I know that isn't as effective as the radiation treatment to destroy the thyroid. At 16 I'm just trying to make his last years more comfortable.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Just a shot in the dark here, and I am NOT a vet, but...he snorted chicken topper? I'll bet his sense of smell was just flat knocked out for a while, and THAT caused him not to eat! You may be perfectly fine with the meds, just keep a close eye on him.

 

[cosmic cats]

Hi Laura, everyone


(just my two bob re this ...)


One of my boy also had CKD and hyperthyroidism (- but mild hyperthyroidism only.) After his first test results indicated that he likely had these illness's, I talked to a number of vets, orthodox and holistic, and read up extensively about both illness's online from a wide variety of sites (orthodox, holistic, scientific, blogs re personal experiences) to try and work out what to do. (- I found it quite hard, as I found a lot of conflicting info etc online. But personally, as a rule, I always try to/like to do my “own homework” as well as talk to professionals eg vets. And I feel in this instance, what I learnt through reading (again, reading heaps and from lots of varies resources) was invaluable.)


I ended up treating my boy naturally and, re his thyroid, the vet couldn't believe the subsequent T4 results ie. without any drugs having been given (- they were still elevated but not as high as she thought they would be.)


I also wanted to keep him a "bit hyperthyroid" for the benefit of his failing kidneys (vets agreed with this), another reason I chose natural remedies as I thought the ones I selected would be gentler than the drug. Not sure if that was the case but I just thought (rightly or wrongly) the drugs might be "harder hitting" in their effects.

Of course, I could have given him a lesser dose of the drug so as to still keep him a bit hyperthyroid (I expect) but in the end I decided to achieve that naturally as I had read the drug in question could have side effects (as was your experience unfortunately, I understand)....and my boy was already dealing with a lot without that possibly as well. (I personally also do prefer to treat naturally / holistically, if it’s appropriate, safe etc)


I also didn't want to combine the drug with natural remedies as little is known about the natural products that I wanted to use and their use for cats and I was concerned about contra-indications.


Of course, each cat is unique and a natural approach may not at all be the best way to go for some/many - esp if their hyperthyroidism is other than mild, given hyperthyroidism can lead to other serious/very serious issues if not treated, brought under control (as Im sure you / others know)


Also, the natural approach for treating/helping cats is still relatively "new" ("re-emerging" might be a better term?) in the West and there is still lots to learn I’m sure about different natural medicines, their safety for cats, contra-indications related to them (- how they interact with other natural remedies AND drugs) etc etc.


I found it quite exhausting trying to wrap my head around it all and quite nerve wracking at times as I often couldn't get clear answers to questions I had re how appropriate and safe some natural remedies were for cats in general AND my cat kid as an individual (given his various issues)


After researching heaps of remedies, herbs etc I distilled it all down to just a handful and even then after much reading, talking (and deliberating.....) Personally, I feel self-diagnosing, prescribing can be problematic, even dangerous...but I had read widely, talked to lots of vets etc so even though I knew I might have been taking a risk not giving him the drug, I didn’t give it. That was my decision, again rightly or wrongly… I can’t help but feel in his case it was the best approach though, as he was only mildly hyperthyroid, his subsequent test results to check his T4 levels over time supported my decision, he was very sensitive to things and I think "natural" was a better “fit” for him etc...

But that’s how it with with/for him as an individual...and I am not a vet, animal technician, animal naturopath etc. I believe each case should be assessed individually..and carefully, thoroughly! (as much as is possible at any rate, given ones resources, available time, finances etc,)


I don't think my boy would have coped with surgery very well, if at all (he was 16 when his first tests indicated higher than normal thyroid hormones and possible CKD ..and I also later learnt he had a significant lung lump after I asked for him to be X Rayed).

Possible risks associated with old age and surgery aside, from memory I think also it's helpful to be careful or mindful re anaesthesia and kidney disease (esp advanced CKD and esp re some anaesthesia more than others, perhaps) - maybe this is something you could discuss with your vet/s also? I cant remember exactly what I read, its been a while, but I did research it and that's my (general) recollection ....Something about how anaesthetics are cleared from the body, I believe ... Again, a vet should be able to inform re this...It might be good to get a second (third!) opinion too if you still have questions, concerns etc. I find vets can differ quite a bit in their views on matters at times

all the best with your great efforts

 

[laura mae]

Just a shot in the dark here, and I am NOT a vet, but...he snorted chicken topper? I'll bet his sense of smell was just flat knocked out for a while, and THAT caused him not to eat! You may be perfectly fine with the meds, just keep a close eye on him.

He did snort the topper. Some things are more challenging for Scoo than for other kitties.

I'll sure be watching him.

 

[laura mae]

Hi Laura, everyone


(just my two bob re this ...)


One of my boy also had CKD and hyperthyroidism (- but mild hyperthyroidism only.) After his first test results indicated that he likely had these illness's, I talked to a number of vets, orthodox and holistic, and read up extensively about both illness's online from a wide variety of sites (orthodox, holistic, scientific, blogs re personal experiences) to try and work out what to do. (- I found it quite hard, as I found a lot of conflicting info etc online. But personally, as a rule, I always try to/like to do my “own homework” as well as talk to professionals eg vets. And I feel in this instance, what I learnt through reading (again, reading heaps and from lots of varies resources) was invaluable.)


I ended up treating my boy naturally and, re his thyroid, the vet couldn't believe the subsequent T4 results ie. without any drugs having been given (- they were still elevated but not as high as she thought they would be.)


I also wanted to keep him a "bit hyperthyroid" for the benefit of his failing kidneys (vets agreed with this), another reason I chose natural remedies as I thought the ones I selected would be gentler than the drug. Not sure if that was the case but I just thought (rightly or wrongly) the drugs might be "harder hitting" in their effects.

Of course, I could have given him a lesser dose of the drug so as to still keep him a bit hyperthyroid (I expect) but in the end I decided to achieve that naturally as I had read the drug in question could have side effects (as was your experience unfortunately, I understand)....and my boy was already dealing with a lot without that possibly as well. (I personally also do prefer to treat naturally / holistically, if it’s appropriate, safe etc)


I also didn't want to combine the drug with natural remedies as little is known about the natural products that I wanted to use and their use for cats and I was concerned about contra-indications.


Of course, each cat is unique and a natural approach may not at all be the best way to go for some/many - esp if their hyperthyroidism is other than mild, given hyperthyroidism can lead to other serious/very serious issues if not treated, brought under control (as Im sure you / others know)


Also, the natural approach for treating/helping cats is still relatively "new" ("re-emerging" might be a better term?) in the West and there is still lots to learn I’m sure about different natural medicines, their safety for cats, contra-indications related to them (- how they interact with other natural remedies AND drugs) etc etc.


I found it quite exhausting trying to wrap my head around it all and quite nerve wracking at times as I often couldn't get clear answers to questions I had re how appropriate and safe some natural remedies were for cats in general AND my cat kid as an individual (given his various issues)


After researching heaps of remedies, herbs etc I distilled it all down to just a handful and even then after much reading, talking (and deliberating.....) Personally, I feel self-diagnosing, prescribing can be problematic, even dangerous...but I had read widely, talked to lots of vets etc so even though I knew I might have been taking a risk not giving him the drug, I didn’t give it. That was my decision, again rightly or wrongly… I can’t help but feel in his case it was the best approach though, as he was only mildly hyperthyroid, his subsequent test results to check his T4 levels over time supported my decision, he was very sensitive to things and I think "natural" was a better “fit” for him etc...

But that’s how it with with/for him as an individual...and I am not a vet, animal technician, animal naturopath etc. I believe each case should be assessed individually..and carefully, thoroughly! (as much as is possible at any rate, given ones resources, available time, finances etc,)


I don't think my boy would have coped with surgery very well, if at all (he was 16 when his first tests indicated higher than normal thyroid hormones and possible CKD ..and I also later learnt he had a significant lung lump after I asked for him to be X Rayed).

Possible risks associated with old age and surgery aside, from memory I think also it's helpful to be careful or mindful re anaesthesia and kidney disease (esp advanced CKD and esp re some anaesthesia more than others, perhaps) - maybe this is something you could discuss with your vet/s also? I cant remember exactly what I read, its been a while, but I did research it and that's my (general) recollection ....Something about how anaesthetics are cleared from the body, I believe ... Again, a vet should be able to inform re this...It might be good to get a second (third!) opinion too if you still have questions, concerns etc. I find vets can differ quite a bit in their views on matters at times

all the best with your great efforts

 

[laura mae]

What natural remedy/regimen did you use?

 

[cosmic cats]

What natural remedy/regimen did you use?

Hi Laura Mae, Its a bit of a long story but in a nutshell - basically bugleweed herb and lemon balm herb. I could only find tinctures with alcohol unfortunately though, so I would places drops of the tincture onto very hot water and allow it to evapourate for 15 mins or so to try and have the alcohol evapourate. And then put it in a bit of food , just a bit so he got the whole dose at once. A holistic vet or animal naturopath (clinic or online) should be able to advise re the correct strength and dose for your cat as an individual (if they are familiar with these remedies.)

(and for his kidneys, one of the things I did was give Rehmannia. But, and again, perhaps being a broken record, only after I had checked its suitability, safety for my boy.) I also researched / tried / used other supplements but would need to collect that info and get back, pls understand

I had also however begun a medicinal mushroom (med mush) for him (again after much deliberating, talking, reading - and stressing.) I learnt quite a bit about med mushs for humans but little is know re using them for cats unfortunately (or as far as I could tell anyhow.....) One thing I did learn however is that their Vit D contents goes through the roof if they are sundried.. Producers of mushs can actually use this is a selling point - "high in vit D". But as certain vitamin D levels can be toxic for cats I ONLY bought non sun dried mush and one that wasn't prepared (extracted) using alcohol. And used sparingly, introduced gradually, monitored his reaction and had blood work done later to see if any real changes - which of course however could result from other things, esp given his concurrent issues.
Probably good also to keep mushs, esp sundried mushs, out of reach of my cat kids given the vit D in them...not that their taste is very alluring to cats though, I suspect....
Med mushs are often extracted using alcohol and water, "dual extraction", to try and get all the "goodies out of them", I think. In fact , it seems to be very important how they are prepared .... Also, with mushrooms in general, I think they are very good at cleaning soil, the environment, so ideally one wants to be very carefully from where one gets them. I got a product made from mushs grown inside to try and avoid this possible problem ie that is mushs full of muck from the soil .....I also first had my boy tested to check if he a disease listed a contraindication to using this mush (but that was just on one site, not sure how accurate that info was ....and the site was also about using the med mush for humans....and of course that mightn't relate to cats....Still I had it investigated when he was getting some blood work done to check other things.

Will try to get back further re more info re supps I used for overactive thyroid and CKD ..and asap...One more thing, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think all the wifis etc around are zapping cats, as well as us, and I wonder if this "environmental EMR" could be causing/ contributing to hyperthyroidism ..along with the chemicals all around which have sadly become part of "modern life" etc etc. My cat kids health deteriorated quite rapidly after the smart meter was activated and I wonder if that was a co-incidence...

 

[Mamanyt1953]

I wonder if this "environmental EMR" could be causing/ contributing to hyperthyroidism ..along with the chemicals all around which have sadly become part of "modern life" etc etc. My cat kids health deteriorated quite rapidly after the smart meter was activated and I wonder if that was a co-incidence...

That would be well worth some research.

 

[cosmic cats]

I agree with you Mamanyt1953. There seem to be a few studies to date but I hope more get done to give a fuller picture of this whole matter (also because so many kids these days are "glued" to their devices often)
I think I did see one vet too (online) who is very big about the whole EMR thing. I also seem to recall she felt it was related to hyperthyroidism (part of the "hyperthyroidism picture") There has been an increase in hyperthyroidism in recent years - and also a big switch to wireless tech then too....Its everywhere now, I even had trouble finding a non wireless printer locally the other day, they were mostly wireless.
I read also about a test they did with EMR and bees, it was interesting..
It could be that other environmental things are also contributing to the spike in hyperthyroidism. Herbicides, pesticides on food etc (Its a shame organic food is often more expensive than non organic.....). I read a lot about glyphosate in particular. In the US you can now even be tested for it (levels). A few parenting (human, not pet!) website mentions this, for example (testing breast milk, etc). And as there are a lots of "not grain free" foods around , some cats may also be reacting to such chemicals in different ways...? Though glyphosate could of course unfortunately also be sprayed on non grains eg tapioca? Even some fish at fish farms can be fed grains. Apparently....I think quite a lot of info on the web can be inaccurate, and one needs to be careful re that , esp re health issues ....So chemicals like glycosphate can end up in our cat kids bowls via a number of ways, I imagine .
But anyhow, its also not good, I think, to live in fear mode! Though there are sadly a number of "not good" things in our modern world, just living in fear mode isn't good for ones health either, I feel...or for our cats health, as I think they can really pick up on our "stuff". Im really glad I learnt what I did about cat health in recent years, and I try to apply a number of things I learnt and try to keep learning and incorporating things, but without going into fear mode (don't always succeed there unfortunately, but.... !!) Being positive in life is really important for health too, I think. So maybe being sensibly proactive and positive is a good platform from which to address cat health, diet issues ? It can be a bit overwhelming, trying to work it out (or that was my experience at any rate) and one can but try .
I now have some stones sitting along my house walls that apparently absorb EMR...don't know if they do but they are only about $ 2 each and esp as we live near a 4 G phone tower, I wanted to have them there, esp after my experience with my boy. Looks a bit odd, and you have to remember to wash them regularly, but hey!? I'm giving it a go! Glad I could get them via mail order..

 

[laura mae]

The Mystery of the Wasting House-Cats This is an interesting article. No one really knows for sure, but the rise in hyperthyroidism in people and cats mirror the rise of flame retardants.

 

[laura mae]

Meanwhile, Scooter so far is not experiencing any bad effects from the methimazole. Of course, he started the treatment Friday night, so not many days yet and we're on the 1/4 tablet dose. I didn't think that the 1/4 tab was therapeutic, but as a way to get a cat's body used to having this in their system. But...he's less restless, eating very well. I bought a bunch of Weruva and other varieties with low phosphorus ( for his companion kidney function which is probably not normal). His favorite is Green eggs and chicken followed by Tiki cat chicken and eggs. Snack of plain browned hamburger. His vet wants him to try the Hills y/d diet-thinking that maybe he won't need as much of the methimazole. Sounds like the study Hills did has some critics.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Thank goodness he is eating well! That is half the battle, right there!

 

[laura mae]

So far so good with the methimazole. We're still at the 1/4 tab dose, twice daily. He's such a good boy. I wrap the medication in a pill pocket and tell him it's time for his appetizer and he comes up onto the top of a cabinet he likes to sit on and I watch to make sure he eats it all.

One of my other cats is a cisapride cat and so he gets his "appetizer" before each meal and Scoobaby always has to see what the fuss is about and be told he's a "good boy" too.

I had cooked some ground chicken and mixed it with a bit of cooked chicken liver and used U-Stew and will finish that. The Hills y/d arrived yesterday. I put 1/2 a can on Scoobaby's plate with the home cooked food. He wanted not one thing to do with the y/d.

I'll heat the other 1/2 of the can for his night snack and see what he thinks.

I was so hesitant to try the medication again because of his reaction before. We'll see how it goes when I increase the dose. Although I think the vet thinks that he'll be on the y/d full time. I have my doubts because of his personal food tastes and that I have multiple cats. Keeping him out of their food will be a big job.