How're things going with my raw-feeding friends?

[auntie crazy]

Hi, all!

It's been a while, how is everyone doing? Still feeding raw? Have you made any changes? Anyone found any new meats to feed? Come across some really good tips you can share?

Koobe, how's the transition going?

Sharky, still feeding some raw, some canned, some kibble?

BrookeSphynx, have you switched over to home-prepared raw yet?

Soka, did you make the switch to raw?

For myself, I've made very few changes since January. I still feed using the frankenprey model, with crickets and sardines once a week for variety, fun and an Omega 3 source.

Hmmm, I have stopped feeding whole mice. My three older kitties take a lot of coaxing to eat them and my two younger ones play with them (tossing them into the air incessantly, whipping them around the kitchen, etc.) for waaaayyyyyyy too long before getting down to busines. The only way to get everyone to either eat or eat without playing first was to cut up the little meecers; unfortunately, since I started feeding raw, I've grown less rather than more comfortable taking shears to furry little bodies.

Folks who've known me since my military days say I've mellowed considerably, so I guess this is just another symptom of that "decline".

I'm a bit disappointed, but with the variety my cats get otherwise, not concerned that mice are no longer on the menu.

I've also added three cats to my household, Oscar (5), Attila (4) and Ralph (3) and have been introducing them to raw for the past two months. Their transition has been considerably slower than my other kitties.... for the first couple of weeks, only Ralph even gave the raw bits of meat a second glance.

At this point, thought, we're doing pretty good. They've tried, and eaten, every type of meat I offer, but they're still having to work really hard on the tougher types. They aren't too keen on the organs, yet, but are slowly coming 'round. Ralphie's eaten very small bones, but I haven't even offered any to Attila or Oscar - they've got a long way to go before they're ready and I don't want them to try and fail and become discouraged. The lack of jaw strength on these poor kitties is ridiculous.

I've got plenty of time, so I'm taking it good and slow. Right now, they're about 50/50 canned/raw.

The only other change I'm contemplating is adding rabbit to everyone's diet. It's quite expensive, but I'm saving so much feeding raw that even adding a meal or two of rabbit a week, I'll still be paying less than when I fed commercial.

Well, that's a wrap for now. I'd love to hear from everyone!

 

[sharky]

Yes my bunch is on the rotation diet still...Princess is the foster but she eats like the rest ...

Have you tried freeze dried mice( they are raw and semi moist)? Mine love them except for Zoey.. and no furry body helps me not to remember ...

 

[koobe]

Hello Auntie Crazy,

I have been missing you!
Cheetah and Panther are on 90% raw. (Cheetah just stopped a few days ago, I will explain it later) I still cut the meat and bone into small pieces and mix a balanced diet. They get 2-3 dry meals each week when no one is at home. When they get tired of the raw, I will add some canned, mostly fish, and they will eat it. I add calcium powder when I am too lazy to cut bones. I would say 25% of the time, I can't do it all the time because Cheetah wont eat anything with Calcium powder. I also buy Rad Cats (they love the turkey), which is about 1/3 of their raw diet.

Both of them LOVE quail. They chew up every piece of the quail bone. But they are not that good about chicken neck. Panther will eat it once a while, and Cheetah won't.

I let them try rabbit. They will eat it, but do not love it. The first time I fed them rabbit, both of them were fine. The second time I fed them rabbit (the same rabbit), Panther threw up right away. I guess Panther is adding anther thing on his list. I tried to give him a teaspoon of kitten milk, and Panther threw up all his lunch. Urgh! Actually Panther is a HUGE fans of dry food, he will do anything to get a few out of the feeder.

Funny enough, both of them are not that into canned food now. Basically wont eat any canned if given alone.

Cheetah went into the vet, and then admitted to the hospital 2 days ago because of gastroenteritis. Of course the vet wants him to go off raw and eat low residue dry food. So now Cheetah is not eating much at all. On the other hand, Panther is still eating raw, and has huge appetite and growing very fast.

Auntie Crazy, I so wish Panther can eat more meat. It seems that you are having fun with your kitties!

 

[furryfriends50]

Nothing new but I got a lot of meat yesterday. 10 lbs of beef heart, 8 lbs of beef liver, 11 lbs of beef kidney, 20 lbs of turkey drumsticks, and 11 lbs of beef steak...for at total of $80. I would have gotten more but I bought all there was

No one quite understand why I am so happy with that...

I added a new cat to the crew as well: Rajah. He's fifteen and I got him from the shelter b/c he was going to be put down. He was dumped by his former owners because he was "old" and they wanted a kitten. Anyhow, I'm working on switching him to raw. If he had the jaw strength he would happily be on all raw...but 15 years of not chewing has taken its tole. We're at about half raw right now and have been at it for about 4 weeks.

 

[koobe]

I had some friends came over a couple weeks ago, they have had cats for 15 years and they were very shocked that I was giving raw. Of course they gave me a lesson about how raw if not good and even canned food "has never been" the primary diet.

Of course when Cheetah got sick this time, they further convince me that I should not be giving raw, and they should be on dry. They were trying to say maybe raw is not for Cheetah (since Panther is doing very great on raw).

Cheetah vomited this morning so I brought him back to the hospital. This is a new vet we are seeing in this hospital, and when I mentioned that he is on raw, she said "We do not like raw". Isn't this disappointing?

I gave Cheetah low residue dry, canned and he did not eat any. The one that got him interested in Panther's raw turkey lunch. I will keep Cheetah on low residue until his stomach stables.

 

[brookesphynx]

Hi there! Long time no see!!

I have switched over to home-made raw. In fact, I doubt the cats would even go near the commercial stuff if I offered it to them today...spoiled! I still offer ground meat/organs/bones most days (I'm a convenience girl!), but they all happily accept RMB's a couple days a week, too. Mandy, my tiny little girl who was most reluctant to switch, is now my best raw eater. She can devour an entire rabbit leg bone, while my boys still just have to gnaw on them for an hour and give up.

Auntie, you mentioned offering rabbit - I gave it to my guys and Helen loved it so much, she REFUSED to eat anything else for 3 months. I hear this is really common with rabbit. And, yeah, it's expensive. I didn't notice where you're located, but I did some searching and found a good supplier in Oklahoma (that ships all over the US) and has rabbit for $2.50/lb - most places are $4 or more! PM me for the info if you're interested.

I haven't tried anything new for a while, but next week I have an order of whole ground mice coming. That'll be interesting!

Koobe, you mention having some negative feedback about raw from your vet...mine is the same way. He admittedly knows nothing about raw, and I've had some health issues with 2 of my cats - Nelson has HCM and Helen collapsed with still unidentified breathing problems. The first thing out of his mouth was, "I think you need to start feeding them cat food." After he saw the sour look on my face, he said, "I've never seen such sick cats in one house". My response: "You mean you think Nelson's genetic heart condition and Helen's bad lungs are a result of their raw diet?" and then I gently reminded him about all the cats that died as a result of the recalls in 2006-2007 of the very food he sells in his lobby. That always shuts 'em up.

And I'm told I should put my HCM cat (Nelson) on a prescription heart diet, one that is specially formulated to be: low in sodium, low fat, high taurine, high potassium, high carnitine, highly palatable, easy to digest. To that I say, "you do realize you just described the raw diet to me, right?"

It's a bummer not having the full support of the vet, but at the same time, I am always prepared to defend my feeding choices with knowledge and facts whenever he makes a remark - and I know his remarks, by his own admission, are simply because he doesn't know anything about raw feeding, he hasn't been my vet long enough to have seen the benefits they get from their diet. I just wish he were more open to learning about it.

Whenever he sees them, he sees their raw diet as a possible cause for illness, rather than (the way I see it) the reason they are doing so well - How my HCM boy is beating the odds on an incredibly low dose of medication for his advanced illness, and how Helen miraculously recovered from her collapse after the ER vet had prepared me for her to die.

 

[bunnelina]

Hi Auntie Crazy,

I'm not feeding raw, but I laughed so hard at your paragraph about the mice that I had to write and say hello. It's nice to hear from you!

I feel guilty about not feeding raw, but my four seem to be doing well eating crappy old Fancy Feast (I know, I know...) and premium kibble.

Congratulations on your three new cats. They are lucky to have you!

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by Bunnelina

Hi Auntie Crazy,

I'm not feeding raw, but I laughed so hard at your paragraph about the mice that I had to write and say hello. It's nice to hear from you!

I feel guilty about not feeding raw, but my four seem to be doing well eating crappy old Fancy Feast (I know, I know...) and premium kibble.

Congratulations on your three new cats. They are lucky to have you!

It isn't necessary to feed raw to be a good cat owner.

The best food is the food your cat(s) will eat and with raw there is always the possibility of an owner not being careful with raw meat and then ends up with much more serious problems.

 

[coolcat]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

It isn't necessary to feed raw to be a good cat owner.

The best food is the food your cat(s) will eat and with raw there is always the possibility of an owner not being careful with raw meat and then ends up with much more serious problems.

good Advice!...

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

It isn't necessary to feed raw to be a good cat owner.

The best food is the food your cat(s) will eat and with raw there is always the possibility of an owner not being careful with raw meat and then ends up with much more serious problems.

Originally Posted by CoolCat

good Advice!...

Hmmm, I didn't get the impression that Bunnelina thought of herself as a bad cat owner. Only that she's aware of a healthier diet than she's currently putting on the table and, like so many of us in today's rush, rush world, struggles with the balance between what she thinks she should do, and what she can do. Parents of both two- and four-legged kin wrestle with this on a daily basis - that in no way makes them bad parents.

At least, not to my mind. *shrug*

As for the "...and with raw there is always the possibility of an owner not being careful with raw meat and then ends up with much more serious problems."... raw feeders, almost by definition, are the kind of folks who pay attention to what they're doing. They have to engage in sometimes extensive research just to overcome the culturally-ingrained fear of raw meat, and are highly unlikely to be haphazard about what they're tossing down. Nutritional deficiencies are more likely to occur (by accident, negligence, etc.) in commercially-produced foods than in any raw-feeder's household. In fact, that very thing has happened several times just in the last year, and is happening in homes across America right this very minute. Three years ago, thousands of cats and dogs were killed and permanently harmed by the melamine meals of 2007.

There are no similar stories in the raw-feeding world.

If you're not referring to nutritional issues, but to the specter of diseases and/or parasites, raw-feeders know the facts on these "risks" as well. If they didn't, they'd surely be hard put to find the courage to feed raw in the first place.

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by Bunnelina

Hi Auntie Crazy,

I'm not feeding raw, but I laughed so hard at your paragraph about the mice that I had to write and say hello. It's nice to hear from you!

I feel guilty about not feeding raw, but my four seem to be doing well eating crappy old Fancy Feast (I know, I know...) and premium kibble.

Congratulations on your three new cats. They are lucky to have you!

Hey, lady! Good to hear from you.

Yeah, I've heard more than a couple of laughs ref. the mice.

I've been looking for a buyer for about 150 fat little frozen meecers for a couple of weeks and while I haven't had any luck so far, I've heard "you bought them for what?!" more often than I care to admit. *chuckle*

And don't feel bad about what you feed! We each of us do the very best we can do. I'm quite sure my daughter ate as much mac & cheese dinners as she did meat and veggie meals when she was growing up.

It's only when we don't care or aren't willing to try or are too lazy to make the effort that folks should feel guilty - but, of course, those folks wouldn't! - and that's not you.

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by BrookeSphynx

Hi there! Long time no see!!

I have switched over to home-made raw... Mandy, my tiny little girl who was most reluctant to switch, is now my best raw eater.

It has been awhile... I had a terrible falling out with someone I trusted about something I cared very deeply about. It involved my raw-feeding education efforts and badly soured me on the whole subject for several months. Made me cry, even. *shakes head sadly*

But I'm back in the saddle now.

Total congrats on the home-prepared feeding!!!! It's a pain sometimes (try finding someone to raw-feed 8 cats so you can get away for a weekend!

), but very much worth it. That's funny about Mandy. Seems like some cats are very stubborn, but when they finally change their minds, they're just as dedicated to the new view as they were to the old.

I'm a little leery about the rabbit addiction thing, but I'm still going to try it. Maybe I'm a bit sensitized due to the trauma of shearing apart their tiny little bodies, but I shudder to think of ground mice. I guess that's a bit silly of me, eh? It's a rather visceral thing, though, not a conscious thought.

In any case, I would LOVE to know the name of your OK source.

The vet rhetoric is commonplace, but I'm happy to say change is on the horizon. I'm lucky, too, in that my own vet - who knows nothing whatever about raw feeding - is very conscientious about looking at my cats in an unbiased manner. He's a really good guy. He even volunteered to research MA laws in ref. titer testing instead of arbitrarily administering the rabies shot every year.

I'm so glad your cats are doing so well on the raw. They are very lucky, especially with their issues; most owners would be too scared to try a new food item, and certainly not a raw diet. You should be commended!

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by furryfriends50

Nothing new but I got a lot of meat yesterday.... No one quite understand why I am so happy with that...

I added a new cat to the crew as well: Rajah. He's fifteen and I got him from the shelter b/c he was going to be put down. He was dumped by his former owners because he was "old" and they wanted a kitten. Anyhow, I'm working on switching him to raw. If he had the jaw strength he would happily be on all raw...but 15 years of not chewing has taken its tole. We're at about half raw right now and have been at it for about 4 weeks.

Hee, hee. I've done the happy dance after a good purchase, too, FurryFriends.

Standing in front of my chest freezer after a solid run to the store (shhh, don't tell anyone this!) gives me a weird short of satisfaction I don't get when I prepare healthy meals for myself or, on the occasion, my family. Meal-making for two-leggers is a chore, meal-making for the four-leggers is, for the most part, a pleasure. LOL!

Good on you for adopting a cat in those circumstances. Poor little guy. A lifetime of mush and cherrios and he has no idea what to do with real food. He'll learn, though, and be the better for it.

One of my "new" kitties was left to starve to death in a crate by some apartment dwellers when they moved away. My daughter found him and brought him home; he was just skin and bones at the time. So sad. He took to raw right away, but really had to work hard on learning to chew.

Slow and sure wins the race!

Originally Posted by koobe

Hello Auntie Crazy, I have been missing you!

Cheetah and Panther are on 90% raw. ... Both of them LOVE quail. They chew up every piece of the quail bone. But they are not that good about chicken neck. Panther will eat it once a while, and Cheetah won't.

I let them try rabbit. They will eat it, but do not love it. ... Actually Panther is a HUGE fans of dry food, he will do anything to get a few out of the feeder.

Cheetah went into the vet, and then admitted to the hospital 2 days ago because of gastroenteritis. Of course the vet wants him to go off raw and eat low residue dry food. ...

... It seems that you are having fun with your kitties!

Greetings, Koobe. I thought about you several times while I was out. Glad to be reconnecting!

I don't feed chicken necks at all anymore. Although they're often recommended as an easy-to-chew bone item, I have trouble cutting them up with shears and most of my cats have to work wicked hard to eat them. They will, but they don't like it.... so I stick with wings and ribs.

Interesting about the rabbit. I plan on picking some up soon; with 8 purrsonalities, we'll have to see how well it goes over.

We've discussed Cheetah extensively outside this forum but I just want to say again how glad I am that he's doing well now.

And, yeah, if there are no kitties in heaven, I don't want to go. Just send me to where ever they went.

Originally Posted by sharky

Yes my bunch is on the rotation diet still...Princess is the foster but she eats like the rest ...

Have you tried freeze dried mice( they are raw and semi moist)? Mine love them except for Zoey.. and no furry body helps me not to remember...

Hiya, Sharky.

Freeze-dried mice? Just writing that makes me cringe! Maybe after I sell the 100 or so meecer bodies I've got packed away and the memory of snipping little heads off little bodies fades into a misty might-have-been, I'll be able to feed mice in unrecognizable states.

Until then, I'm afraid I'm going to have to stick to less cuter forms of food sources.

 

[brookesphynx]

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

As for the "...and with raw there is always the possibility of an owner not being careful with raw meat and then ends up with much more serious problems."... raw feeders, almost by definition, are the kind of folks who pay attention to what they're doing. They have to engage in sometimes extensive research just to overcome the culturally-ingrained fear of raw meat, and are highly unlikely to be haphazard about what they're tossing down. Nutritional deficiencies are more likely to occur (by accident, negligence, etc.) in commercially-produced foods than in any raw-feeder's household. In fact, that very thing has happened several times just in the last year, and is happening in homes across America right this very minute. Three years ago, thousands of cats and dogs were killed and permanently harmed by the melamine meals of 2007.

There are no similar stories in the raw-feeding world.

If you're not referring to nutritional issues, but to the specter of diseases and/or parasites, raw-feeders know the facts on these "risks" as well. If they didn't, they'd surely be hard put to find the courage to feed raw in the first place.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Auntie. I spent months pouring over everything I could get my eyes on before I was comfortable making the switch to raw...and when I decided to start making it myself - oh boy, I lost sleep with worry that I wouldn't get it right. Going raw was definitely not a venture I took lightly, and I've yet to find another raw feeder that didn't go through the same thing.

 

[bunnelina]

Hey folks,

You're very kind, but don't mind me for feeling guilty over the Fancy Feast. I have every right to feel guilty because I KNOW Fancy Feast is garbage. (Even though I just met a woman at the vet with a blooming, 20-year-old tabby who eats nothing but!) I hate buying it, and I hate watching them eat it. But I still let them sucker me into it. At least they'll eat high-quality kibble. (If there is such a thing!)

And I AM lazy. Let's be clear about that. I keep trying better canned foods on them, but they like them one day and hate them the next — after I've traipsed back over to the next town to stock up! Wears you down....

Oh. and I'm CHICKEN, too. I was so nervous when I finally tried a little frozen raw food with them. My husband was even more of a wreck. And our vet is not in favor of it at all, so they both talked me out of it.

I have a lot of respect for you raw feeders. And in addition to feeling guilty, lazy, and cowardly, I sometimes feel scared. I was horrified by the melamine poisoning and I wish my cats would eat food I can trust.

One of these days, I'll try again!

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by Bunnelina

Hey folks,

You're very kind, but don't mind me for feeling guilty over the Fancy Feast. I have every right to feel guilty because I KNOW Fancy Feast is garbage. (Even though I just met a woman at the vet with a blooming, 20-year-old tabby who eats nothing but!) I hate buying it, and I hate watching them eat it. But I still let them sucker me into it. At least they'll eat high-quality kibble. (If there is such a thing!)

And I AM lazy. Let's be clear about that. I keep trying better canned foods on them, but they like them one day and hate them the next — after I've traipsed back over to the next town to stock up! Wears you down....

Oh. and I'm CHICKEN, too. I was so nervous when I finally tried a little frozen raw food with them. My husband was even more of a wreck. And our vet is not in favor of it at all, so they both talked me out of it.

I have a lot of respect for you raw feeders. And in addition to feeling guilty, lazy, and cowardly, I sometimes feel scared. I was horrified by the melamine poisoning and I wish my cats would eat food I can trust.

One of these days, I'll try again!

Wow, Bunnelina, I can feel your anxiety and upset coming right through the screen.

I struggle a lot with my own diet. I'm ex-military and as both a young soldier and a thirtyish civilian, I was physically fit, strong and had an (in retrospect) amazing amount of endurance. It didn't matter what I ate or how little sleep I got, I was bright-eyed, clear-headed and disgustingly energetic.

Now I creak after sitting too long, I'm as foggy as a San Francisco morning if I don't get a solid 8 hours of sleep and I'm asking neighborhood kids to bring my groceries in. Without a doubt, I'd feel better, move easier and lift more if I ate right and headed for bed on time, and yet I don't.

I argue with myself about it dang near every day. I hate meal-times... if I could get away with not eating at all, I'd be as happy as a clam. And if it weren't for coffee, it's doubtful I'd be functional at all.

So I get where you're coming from. I wish I could help you or offer some pithy advice, but I've got nothing... except..., I get where you're coming from.

<<<hugs>>>

Also - I think I'd still be feeding raw if Ollie hadn't been killed by the 2007 poisoning, but there's no doubt the trauma of his passing is inextricably tied up with my passion for feline nutrition. If you've ever lost a furry loved one, you know that's not something to envy.

 

[bunnelina]

Hi Auntie Crazy,

I've lost cats but never from anything as direct as poison in the cat food. If that had happened to any of mine, I would have whipped off this lethargy and started making my own food, too. I can't imagine how traumatic that must have been. And must still be.

I hope we can both figure out how to take better care of ourselves. Our cats need us!

 

[auntie crazy]

Hey, guys!

Just read through this entire thread again. None of my real-time friends have quite the passion for feline nutrition or even just cats in general that I am "plagued" by and I have to say - I really enjoy coming here and talking to all of you.

FurryFriends - How's Rajah doing? Well, besides having a beautiful set of pearly whites?

Has he completely transitioned to a raw diet yet, bones and all?

BrookeSphynx - Have you had any luck finding a more knowledgeable vet? How was the ground mice (*wince*) received? And, hey, I never did get that link to your Oklahoma raw food vendor!

Koobe - I thoroughly enjoyed talking to you the other day!

Everything still moving along well with Panther and Cheetah? Are you still feeding chicken as a single meat source for Cheetah? Hmm, did you say you were going to do that for a month? How far along are you and is it still working?

Bunnelina - How are you and your furry family doing? I think about you whenever I go shopping now. I've been involved with some higher-level strategic initiatives at work - the kind I have to be fully "on" for - and returned to college to finish my degree; if I'm to succeed in either of these areas (and that's the intention *smile*), I have to start taking as good care of myself as I do my furkids. Today, I have peaches, strawberries and yogurt in my fridge, and I haven't eaten out in... er.... several days. Little steps are good, right? :-)

And speaking of going back to school, the Feline Nutrition Education Society has created a non-profit FNES Foundation that will, among other actions, establish a formal feline nutrition certification program. Guess who intends to be the very first student???????!!!!

I'm so excited about it, I can hardly stand myself. Finally, a feline nutritional program based on SCIENCE, not money.

On a sadder note... I had to take Oscar and Attila off the raw diet. Despite their many, many weeks of slow introduction, and pulling out every intro trick I know, those two are not going to integrate with my resident crew. They've been in my spare bedroom (my storage room) 24/7 for several weeks now and are going to have to be adopted out, so I put them back on canned. It makes me incredibly sad (the adopting out, not the canned), but we can each only do the best we can do, right? I've literally tried everything to help everyone get along, but things seemed to be going along well, and then they suddenly began going downhill. It's so bad between them now that there's been actual blood-shed.

They're even trying to attack each other through the bedroom door.

Once I've found them a home, I'm not taking on any more fosters, family pets, anything. Although my apartment is large (3.5 bedrooms and a 24' x 14' living room), I think I'm at capacity with 6 cats.

 

[sharky]

Couple questions ... One why not take one of the multiple feline education classes that are readily available ? No I am not meaning the ones at a few vet schools

... I know of three off the top of my very tired head, all HARD science based with holistic mindset...

How do you have 3.5 bedrooms?

Oh I am sorry about the fosters not getting along... I found out how much work fosters take a bit ago ... hats off you for doing it again.. I know you say you tried everything ... stupid ? have you tried the vanilla trick?

 

[furryfriends50]

Rajah started to eat quail a few months ago and I switched him to full raw right after that. However quail is to expensive for me to be feeding him all the time and have attempted (and failed) to get him to eat smaller bones such as chicken ribs.

Then a few weeks ago I gave him a small chicken neck and left it with him for 15 minutes while I fed everyone else. The worst he could do was not eat it after all! When I went to check to see if he had actually happened to eat it I couldn't find it anywhere so I assumed he had eaten it

He will now eat chicken necks if he is in the mood for them otherwise I will smash them a bit so he will fulfill the bone requirement. He will also eat 1/4 of a Cornish Game Hen - but again if he is in the mood for it. If he won't eat it I will smash it enough so that he will.

He has to have a differant menu than the rest of mine because he won't eat certain meats. He also eats twice the amount of raw than any of the otehr cats. Other than that - and the slight bone issue - he is doing really well!

When I got him (late March 2010) he had the energy of a 15 year old cat; okay so he is a 15 year old cat. But now I go on 1-2 mile walks with him everyday which he loves! He has nearly doubled his wieght since I got him as well...which is a good thing because he was very skinny.