How Spread Is Normal Presence Of E Coli In Urine?

[solomonar]

My Cat urine's tested positive for E coli.

I collected the probe from the floor, which is built in ceramic tiles.

The scientific records I am aware state for abnormal presence of E coli only in case of very young cats. Of course, the E coli infection shall be doubled by clinical signs to account for an actual disease.

The vet is doubting about significance of E coli presence, given the circumstances above.

I am scratching my head: E coli is usual in the environment- however, can I totally exclude urinary tract infection in my 2 years old Cat?

The is the one to decide the treatment, if needed. But I think he can make a much better decision if I can provide some scientific articles about E coli in cats.

Knowing more about E coli pathology in cats can empower me to better manage cat's environment - and mine, of course.

Question is, to your kindness: can you point me to an open access article or trusted web site dealing scientifically with the E coli cat's pathology?

Thank you very much!

 

[Wile]

Hi there! I agree with your vet. Collecting a urine sample from a floor and testing that sample for e. coli is not an ideal way of determining if a cat has a UTI. For all you know, that spot could have been contaminated by the cat walking on it first after burying some poop in their litter box. Generally a cystocentesis and urine culture is the most reliable way to diagnose specific bacteria causing a UTI.

If you believe your cat has a UTI ask your vet to collect a sample for a culture. The lab will be able to culture the strain and let your vet know exactly what type of bacteria is causing the issue, and the antibiotics needed to treat it. It is great that you want to read more about e. coli - there are probably tons of articles about it. Here is an abstract for one, with links to others: Feline bacterial urinary tract infections: An update on an evolving clinical problem. - PubMed - NCBI

Good luck!

 

[solomonar]

Wile
Thank you!
Cystocentesis - I agree. But to that point:

Well known then E coli cause urinary infection. But E coli also colonises the cat's body and environment.
I am still searching - can be E coli a normal bacteria in cat's bladder, or at least could be harmless?
Similar to genital Candida in humans - it is always there, but proliferates only in certain circumstances.
Since the cats tested positive to E coli were the (only) ones reported to the vet, how can we know that E coli is not present in healthy cats?

 

[Wile]

E Coli is not normally found in the bladder. Cat urine is acidic for a reason - it is to kill bacteria to prevent bacteria growth. Urine in the bladder should be sterile, and if bacteria is found then the cat has a UTI. We know this because large numbers of healthy cats have had their urine tested over many years, and their urine has been found to be sterile. E Coli may be normal in the intestinal tract, but not the bladder.

E Coli is also not harmless. This is a very well known fact. There is a reason we test water that we drink/swim in for e coli contamination - an infection can kill you. My own cat had an e. coli infection two months ago. I have no idea how he got it (perhaps from licking his penis). He was in extreme pain from the infection. Had I delayed having him treated it may have spread and would have put his other organs, such as his kidneys, at risk for long term damage. Two weeks after he finished his antibiotics I had him re-tested and his urine was sterile, and he was back to normal.

 

[solomonar]

Wile
Thank you!

 

[epona]

Getting a urine sample from the floor and testing it is not testing what was in the urine, it is testing what was on the floor.

While it is true that e.coli can cause urinary tract infections in cats, getting a sample from the floor is not conclusive - the bacteria could have been present in faeces and tracked out of the litter box.

A lot of mammals carry e.coli bacteria in their lower intenstines, and it can be found in fecal matter as a result. It is normally harmless, as long as it stays in the lower intestine. If it, and the toxins it produces, are then ingested due to food contamination and poor food hygiene, that can result in very serious illness.

 

[solomonar]

epona

True in principle.

However, is it E coli present all over the places (think to a presence/absence map)? Could be higher incidence in some places, e.g. nearby litter box, sounds logical. But what is the chance for E coli to be, say, near the feeding bowl?

To a certain extent, it is common sense that E coli could be anywhere in the environment. But is there any scientific study about where E coli could be present?

 

[FeebysOwner]

I think each time Feeby has been tested for a UTI, the vet found e-coli in her urine sample. He told me it is pretty common for it show up in urinary tract infections.

 

[solomonar]

I repeated the test, after doing nothing. No E coli this time, but staphylococcus (!).

Again, it was a sample from the urine on the floor (a different spot to the first test that was positive to E.coli).

My tomcat (integer) urinates near frontdoor and near windows. Could be a behavioral problem, since I ceased to take him out, to the city parks.

However, during a first antibiotic treatment for an eye infection, he was happily urinating in the correct place :-)

The vet is somehow in favor of a "blind" antibiotics treatment using a quinolone that proved effective against the staphylococcus strain in the sample. No cystocentesis as the situation does not justify the risks.

I am totally puzzled. A friendly fresh mind opinion would help a lot. Thank you!

 

[FeebysOwner]

I don't know if I can offer much help, as I am not sure exactly what you are looking for. Are you thinking there still may be E coli bacteria in his urinary tract that, for whatever reason, didn't show up in the 2nd urine sample testing?

There are a number of different bacterial/microbial/fungal types that can cause UTIs. E coli does not belong in the urinary tract; it typically resides - with beneficial purposes - in the digestive tract. And, I am unsure about staph infections existing in the urinary tract at all. Here are some articles that may (or may not) help:

E. Coli Infection in Cats - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost

Side Effects of Common Veterinary Antibiotics for Cats

Staph Infection in Cats | petMD

 

[Wile]

Hi Solomnar, there are different things that can cause a cat to pee outside the litter box. You mentioned that your cat is spraying near windows and near the door. Is it possible that your cat could be peeing for territorial reasons? Are there other cats visible to your cat outside?

Also you mentioned that he is a tomcat. Does that mean that he hasn't been neutered? If that is the case his behaviour could be influenced by hormones.

 

[solomonar]

FeebysOwner
Thank you! After reading, it looks like there is no sufficient ground in my case to give antibiotics to my cat. My vet is right to still doubt.

Wile
Thank you! My (indoor only) tomcat is not neutered. I place plastic bags in the room corners for him to spray. Then I throw the bags away.

++++

My Cat lives in a very small apartment (together with my family) so it might be a territorial cause for his behavior. When he was a kitty he happily went to the litter box to pee.

One year ago I used to go out with hem for short walks in park. But he was very sad days I couldn't go for a walk with him because of being to busy. Then I ceased to take him out- is one year now :-((.