How much variety do cats need?

[apprentice]

If cats are fed whole ground prey as a sole diet, how many different species would they need for the diet to be reasonably complete? Some of my cats are barn cats and can supplement their diets so I'm mostly thinking about my indoor kitties.

I have access to beef, lamb, rabbit, goose, duck and guineafowl. Is this enough variety or do I need to seek out more?

Also, weird question but: can cats drink fresh blood? Not as a major part of their diets or anything but as a treat? I have meat rabbits for the peoples(tm) and, uh, not to be too graphic but due to that process there is often drained blood. Atm I just throw it out but while I'm doing that some of my cats follow me around and yell at me for it.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi, welcome!

About the blood, if they want it that badly, I can't really think of a reason to not give it to them

I would say that is plenty of variety, honestly.

 

[Astragal14]

I don't know about fresh liquid blood, but dried/dehydrated/freeze dried blood is definitely a popular meal topper. Our local independent pet food store sells a few varieties of dried blood (the link is one option they carry in store). We use organ treats at home and they are a big favorite! That may be something else you want to try if you don't use the entirety of the rabbit.
Blood Sprinkles

Regarding the various proteins you mentioned, that definitely sounds like a wonderful variety, especially since you have many more options than just chicken or turkey. I would at least run it by your vet (or a veterinary nutritionist) because each type of protein has a different nutrient profile; some things to be aware of could be the ratio of protein/fiber/fat, and that may adjust how much or how often you give that protein. For example, our cats eat freeze dried raw nibs and, even though we rotate proteins, we don't give them a lot of the pork because it is considerably higher in fat than the other proteins. The high fat content is also why we avoid pork if someone is having tummy troubles.

 

[sophie1]

Lisa Pierson feeds her cats a rotation of chicken, turkey, and rabbit food, with only thigh meat used for the chicken and turkey, and has successfully kept them healthy on this for decades. So I'd regard that as a minimum for variety of proteins & cuts.

 

[ritz]

Hello, I am about to make my first batch of food following Dr. Pierson's recipe for my cat who does not have a protein allergy. I am using a mix of sauted ground pork and poultry, I have chicken liver and pork kidney which I bought before my vet highly recommended using Dr. Pierson's recipe. Can I incorporate them into the batch of food and if so what if any supplements should I eliminate. Thank you.
FYI: Holding off on doing the same for Ritz, who is on a novel protein (rabbit) for a suspected food allergy. Feeding her Primal Raw rabbit, supplemented by cooked rabbit, to lower bone percentage. On another thread.
Thanks a lot.

 

[sophie1]

Well, I'm not the last authority on her recipe but I'll take a shot at this....

First off: her recipe is designed for a proportion of 10% bone and 10% liver in the food. Anne Jablonski, who adapted the recipe for her cats, limits bone content to 5%. I believe it should be fine (optimal actually) to use 5% liver and 5%other secreting organs in place of the 10% liver portion. Does your recipe include bone, or are you planning to use eggshell or equivalent as a substitute?

Also, given that she does cook the meats (partial baking for every batch of poultry, plus cooking in order to can her own emergency backup food), there should be no problem with your using cooked ground pork. Just be sure to save the cooking liquid and use it as part of the water in the recipe. I'm aware that nutrient content might be slightly different with the different proteins, but I think there's already enough uncertainty in the USDA's figures for nutrient content that I don't think it's worth the time to fine-tune the supplement mix for a given combo of meats. But, perhaps others might disagree.

As far as the supplements....there's not actually that many, and I don't believe any of them are considered optional, except maybe the egg yolk. Which one were you thinking of eliminating?

FWIW, I switched from individual supplements to Alnutrin because I wanted to make small batches like 8 oz - that way I don't have to jar & refreeze, which might damage some of the nutrients and takes most of the foodmaking time. And, I can mix up food on the fly right at mealtimes, because it's so quick and easy. Also, I really wanted to use the egg yolks, and Alnutrin is actually cheaper than DIY because of egg prices where I live.

 

[ritz]

Thank you Sophie. I will treat the kidney as an 'extra', and add the liver per Dr. Pierson's recipe. I can use egg shell for Dahalia; she is predisposed to kidney issues. I will definitely use the liquid from cooked ground protein to make up one cup.
Ritz is on a novel protein, rabbit only, for around two more months. I will use the bones I get from rabbit, can't use egg shell or Alnutrin. I will talk to the holistic vet on Friday about option options for bone; I am wary of using bone meal.

 

[sophie1]

Sounds like a good plan ritz !

Are you thinking to keep up the Primal for Ritz, or switch to a homemade food? Primal sounds reasonable especially given that it's temporary, if she's doing well on it. Making your own mix....if you can't get ground rabbit meat/bone/organ grinds or find rabbit organs locally, I'm not sure how you could manage it. If you do have a source for organs, you can either make up the supplements yourself or check out Alnutrin's egg-free supplement mixes, with or without calcium. They should be chicken-free and safe to use.

 

[ritz]

I can get whole rabbit; I cook it then grind the meat and small bones. Right now I am using the rabbit meat as a supplement to the Primal rabbit, which is high in bone.
Primal is about $40 for a three pound bag where I live (Annapolis, Maryland), lasts around eight days--$5 a day, expensive!
The sores and bare spots have cleared up (Prednisone and Covenia). Now waiting game to see if she resumes overgrooming while on the Prima Rabbit/Rabbit. I haven't done calculations to see if ordering ground raw from Hare Today is cheaper than Primal or buying whole rabbit locally.

 

[sophie1]

Ritz is lucky to have you as her cat mama!

I was going to say that Hare Today will be cheaper, as you can get rabbit grinds for $10/lb including shipping, but you'll need to cut it with plain meat as it's 15% bone. But I forgot, you can't use a cheap meat like chicken to do that. And the rabbit "semi-boneless" ground meat is $17/lb (!).

Perhaps you can cut the rabbit with another novel and low-allergen protein like venison? Or, there's the rabbit meat you can get locally. Hare Today sells ground rabbit organs, which is useful for combining with the locally-procured meat. Perhaps what you can do is order only the rabbit organs and boneless venison from Hare Today, get rabbit meat locally, and use egg-free Alnutrin with calcium as your supplement. That would be a bit of work and the cost savings will be modest, but you might like the result.

BTW I just looked up Primal's rabbit food ingredient list, because I remember that they used to include pork in their recipe. It doesn't now, but did you know that the second ingredient is egg? Presumably chicken eggs?

 

[ritz]

OMG: Thank you Sophie for pointing this out to me. I didn't realize Primal contained [chicken] egg. I sent my vet a note about this. I am hoping she says the percentage of egg is negligible. Well, as long as Ritz doesn't start to overgroom!
Good ideas, alternatives about mixing and matching. An Excel spreadsheet would come in handy--hoping to take a class in Excel in January.