How long can raw food be left out?

[sophie1]

I am getting a new kitten to keep my cat company (which hopefully will give him something besides my ankles to pounce on at 11pm).  The breeder told me that she feeds a commercial raw variety subjected to high pressure pasteurization, and she puts out the entire food portion every morning and lets the cats graze on it all day.  When it's finished, that's it until the next day except for freeze dried organ meat treats.  It takes the cats something like 4-8 hours to finish the entire portion, sometimes longer.  She says she's been doing this for years with no problems, but she won't feed any raw that hasn't been HPP treated.

The problem is that I've been feeding ground mixes from Hare today for reasons of variety, quality, and cost - the commercial HPP foods are just ridiculously priced especially around here.  They're all at least $10/pound, compared to $6/pound from Hare Today including shipping and DIY supplements (egg yolk, vitamins, fish oil).  Since these foods are not treated, I prefer not to leave them out for more than 30 minutes.

But then I got to thinking....if you are trying to grow bacteria in a laboratory, you'd set up ideal conditions and even then it takes DAYS to get a good culture.  Is it really necessary to restrict the time that food is left out?  The breeder says that she feels that cats trained to eat meals tend to overeat and gain weight, whereas cats allowed to graze will self-regulate their intake.  Also of course cats allowed to graze won't eat so much that they throw it up.  In other words where is the data indicating how long it's safe to leave raw meat at room temperature, especially if it starts out cold?   I looked up doubling times and I found something like 2 hours for Salmonella - again under ideal conditions.  But in order to really cause problems you likely need several generations worth of colony doubling.

Appreciate the board's thoughts on this.  Regarding the last post...it may be that Lox is doing perfectly fine with her grazing, and there's nothing to worry about - unless you're trying to limit the time that the raw food is out.

 

[fhicat]

I leave mine out for up to 8 - 10 hours sometimes (when I have to be out of the house for a long time). Jed eats anything if he has to (i.e he can be a bit picky, but if it comes down to being hungry or eating something he doesn't like, he'll eat it), so I've learnt to trust his nose.

After a few hours, the food looks nasty (usually darkens or gets crusty), but he eats them anyway, so I'm inclined to think it hasn't gone bad, just the texture looks yucky. If I leave food in the refrigerator for more than 3 days, he doesn't eat them anymore; likely because it really has gone bad.

Keep in mind too that desert tigers don't eat an entire deer in one sitting - they leave the carcass out in the 100 degree air and come back to it later.

 

[peaches08]

Anything "food" is going to have a specific shelf life, HPP or not. That said, I'm not overly concerned about bacteria for the reasons Fhi09 mentioned.

Also, cats are not designed to graze. One problem with grazing is who ate and how much in a multi cat household.

As long as what you're feeding is properly balanced, I think what you're feeding is fine.

 

[goingpostal]

 Food doesn't usually last very long around my cat but bigger chunks she might work on over a couple hours.  She's not really interested in warm or old food if offered.  My ferrets meat is normally left out up to 12 hours, maybe a little longer if they are being picky and not eating it and larger whole prey might stay out 2-3 days depending on the size.  They are more of grazers though. Plus I feed PMR and whole prey, ground is a rare treat and eaten immediately.  If you wanted to leave ground out for a longer period I would be tempted to put it out semi frozen unless your kitty only likes warm food. 

 

[ritz]

Yes were I to leave out raw food I'd start with frozen food.  That is based on no scientific data, I don't know if any studies have been done determining if bacteria grows faster if the food of frozen or if the food is room temperature.  Logic would dictate, slower.

Note that the temperature of the room would also affect bacteria growth.  I personally would not feel comfortable leaving out raw food in the summer, I set the thermostat at 80.

And, Ritz would eat the food frozen...

 

[machinist]

I also buy from hare today and will leave next out for hours. Cats are picky. If the meat is bad, they won't eat it. They also have shorter digestive tracks, making them less susceptible to salmonella.

 

[laralove]

Man, I love this site. I'd been wondering the same thing, but didn't ask because Oliver will scarf his raw food down and beg for more every time I offer it. He'll often leave the wet much longer and sort of graze on it, but after so long (an hour or so) he won't touch whatever's left. He'll just meow and walk in circles by his bowl until I replace it. 

 

[sophie1]

Thanks all!  One day I may become more comfortable with leaving raw meat out, but for now...  I've settled into a schedule of putting out about 1/3 of their daily amount as Hare Today food in the morning (defrosted), and the rest as frozen 2 oz patties I make up using Primal chicken or turkey grinds.  My cats don't eat consistent amounts day to day, and I found that letting them graze has made me stress about food a lot less.  Plus this is the most super easy feeding method ever.  They do tend to do most of their eating in the mornings and evenings.  

The Primal grinds are HPP and are a really great deal.  They are $6.99 for a 2 lb chub from a store down the street, which is cheaper than Hare Today chicken when you factor in shipping.   The quality looks good, better than the Nature Variety food which my older cat particularly won't touch.  I make the patties in a muffin tin, quick freeze them, and then throw them into a freezer bag.

Speaking of quality, my last order from Hare Today was really funky - the rabbit defrosted to mostly liquid and there wasn't much meat in the package!  Has anyone else had problems like this?  I sent a note to Hare Today about it.