How Do I Get Her To Pee In The Box? Desperate Now.

[Not Jackson Galaxy]

Hi everyone,

PLEASE help!!! I feel like we are close to resolving this but also far...

My cat has litter boxes in our bathroom. She consistently poos in one and then wees on the floor. I put puppy training pads down to minimise the cleaning for me and she seems to like the puppy pads but only if the pads are on the floor! I put them in litter boxes hoping to entice her back to the box but she's not having it. She still pees on the bare floor.
She also scratches the carpet in the house very badly. She has scratch boxes which she ignores but she does use posts.

Background: We moved in to this house a couple of months ago. She started peeing in the hallway. I put a used litterbox there and a scratching post and fingers crossed, I hope we might have fixed that. She is 8 years old and has been a house cat for all that time. I started letting her out into a safe, cat proofed garden and she goes out sometimes. We have had Feliway plug ins since day 1, same with Feliway spray. I have given her Zylkene and don't think it made a difference. I took her to the vet and tests were apparently not very conclusive - a bit of dehydration and blood so possibility of crystals. I bought her a water fountain which she ignores. I tried to give her antibiotics that the vet prescribed ("just in case") but she refused wet food until it went off and popping pills down her is not happening. We just received delivery of Cystease and i'm back to thinking i'll try to crush up the antibiotics in wet food again but to be honest, i'm not convinced she has Cystitis anymore if she did before. I think she is in a habit now.

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[Columbine]

Hi, and welcome to TCS

I'm so sorry you're having these issues. I know from experience just how frustrating litterbox avoidance can be.

It sounds like there a several potential causes at work here. Initially, it sounds like there was a territorial anxiety issue triggered by moving to a new home. This is pretty common and understandable, and it sounds like the way you dealt with it worked very well

If she's previously been indoor only, with no outside access at all, it is possible that having an outside space is a little overwhelming for her. Only you can judge this, but it might be worth tracking her habits and noticing if she's more anxious on the days she goes outside. It's wonderful that she has safe outside space available, but she may need a little extra support and reassurance until she's fully confident and comfortable out there.

If there was blood in her urine, that definitely suggests that there was something amiss. UTIs can recur or worsen with time, so I would definitely persevere with any treatment your vet prescribes. You can't possibly treat any kind of behavioural issue until you've treated the underlying physical cause. It honestly sounds like there is something physical going on with her, and that needs diagnosing and treating before you can move forward.
When Physical Problems Turn Into Behavior Problems
How To Solve Litterbox Problems In Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Feline Idiopathic Cystitis - How To Improve Your Cat's Quality Of Life

If you're not confident in pilling her (and I know it can be far from easy), ask your vet or a vet tech to teach you how. Pill poppers are cheap, and are a great way to save fingers from kitty teeth. I personally find it easier to just give by hand, but many members here swear by them. Another option is to find some extra tasty treat to wrap the pill in, so she will eat it on her own. It often works better to coat the whole pill in something (say, meat or fish paste, or a commercially made pill pocket like Greenies) than to crush it and mix it with food. Many pills have a bitter taste to them, but usually have a film coating to disguise it. Once crushed, the full bitterness of the pill is exposed.
How Can I Give A Pill To My Cat
Pilling Cats: Must-know Tips For Hiding Pills

Another option for meds is to go to a compounding pharmacy and get the medicine as either a liquid (which can usually be made up to taste of chicken or tuna) or sometimes even a transdermal gel, which you rub into the exposed skin on the inside base of the ear. I believe these forms can be more expensive, but it's often worth it to avoid a fight

You say Zylkene didn't work for her. It might be worth trying her on Composure instead (after checking with the vet, of course). Zylkene and Composure are very similar, but often one will work better than the other for individual cats. There are other similar calming supplements too, but always check with your vet before giving supplements or natural remedies of any sort - even ones designed for cats.
Alternative Treatments For Cats: How To Minimize The Risk

As for the scratching, first of all its great to hear that she's doing her best to use healthy ways of marking her new territory (as opposed to trying to own the space with urination), but I do understand how frustrating and destructive it can be. It sounds like she wants to use a horizontal surface for scratching, at least some of the time, but that the cardboard scratcher just isn't doing it for her. You can get some wonderful flat scratchers these days, like the beautiful ones by Art, Motion, & Sound (made by our member @bengalcatman), so it might well be worth investing in one of those to protect your carpets a bit

I hope at least some of this helps, and that you start making progress with her soon

 

[rubysmama]

Hello and welcome to TCS. So sorry you're dealing with litter box avoidance issues. It may be a habit, but maybe take her to another vet, just to totally rule out an UTI.

My Ruby girl had a UTI a few years back. I knew I could never get pills in her, so the vet gave her an antibiotic shot, and her UTI cleared up. She wasn't peeing outside the box though. The opposite, actually. She was peeing many, many little drops of pee in the litter box.

Considering your cat's pee issue started after the move, it could be a stress/territorial thing.

Do you have an enzyme cleaner to clean the areas she's peed in? That is the only type of cleaner that will totally remove the urine scent.

How To Remove Cat Urine
How To Remove Cat Urine Odor From Your Home

Does she ever pee in the litter box? Have you tried a different litter? A different litter box? Moving the litter boxes further apart?

Here's a couple more articles that might be helpful:
Inappropriate Peeing, Spraying, Toy Obsession And Leg And Hand Nipping
Spraying: When Your Cat Uses Urine To Mark Territory

 

[Catlover579]

Have you tried Dr Elsey's Cat Attract litter? Nothing was working for my cat until i switched to that litter. He went right in. It has something in the litter that attracts cats to use the bathroom in it and the texture they like to dig. If you have not tried yet I really recommend it. It worked a miracle for us

 

[Not Jackson Galaxy]

Thank you thank you thank you for helping us.

Looks like I spoke too soon about fixing the peeing in the hallway as she just squatted there...She had the peeing in the hallway issue in our previous house but correct positioning of a litter box seemed to work.

I just went out and bought a pill popper and tried again but she spat out the tablet 3 times and now we're not friends anymore. The vet said this pill based course of tablets was the best bet but there is an injection course she could give her which is less likely to be effective. I think i don't have a choice though. I'll go back and ask them to inject her.

I'm in the UK and can't find that brand Catlover579, but i've ordered a different brand to give it a try, thank you for recommending it.

I am well versed in enzymatic cleaners so hopefully am getting rid of the scent completely.

Lately, she isn't peeing in a box at all

 

[Not Jackson Galaxy]

Don't worry, she gave as good as she got My leg is scratched up pretty good.

 

[Adway]

Whats her name? Also, whats her age?

At the cost of sounding stupid, is she spayed? My guy has just started doing it in last couple of days, but we already had an appointment set for Vet for neutering. Although I have observed an incident since neutering, the Vet is pretty confident that it will stop.

 

[Not Jackson Galaxy]

She's called Jellybean and she's 9 years old. Yes she is spayed.

 

[Columbine]

I'm in the UK too,so, knowing that, I might be able to help with more targeted suggestions or brands.

Dr Elsey's is very hard (and expensive) to get here - I saw it on Amazon recently at just over £90 a bag! Simple Solutions make a litter attractant additive, so that might be worth a try.
Simple Solution Cat Litter Attractant
As far as calmers go, it might be worth trying Nutracalm. My girl went through a phase of being absolutely petrified of the vet, and it really helped her. Another option to discuss with your vet us a prescription calming food, like Royal Canin Calm. I've never used it, but a friend of mine has one of hers on it and it works wonderfully for them.

If she does have cystitis, especially FIC, there are things you can do long term to manage it. My girl has (unconfirmed) FIC, and I have her on this supplement:
Protexin Veterinary Cystophan Capsules, Pack of 30 Capsules It's made a huge difference to her. On it, we have zero urination issues, but if I forget it for a few days we start having issues again (usually in the dog's bed ). This is NOT a substitute for antibiotics or other veterinary meds in any way, but a way to support her health once you've got her healthy. Definitely talk to your vet first, as with any supplement. The other great thing is that it's capsules of chicken flavoured powder, so you can just empty the capsule contents into the food and mix in

Pilling cats is always hard, and the ideal solution is always to get the cat to voluntarily eat the meds. Have you tried coating them in meat or fish paste, or paté, or cream cheese? You can also get kitty pastes of various types - Arden Grange make a liver paste for disguising pills, and there are plenty of malt and cheese pastes available too. You can get Greenies Pill Pockets on Amazon, if you want to give those a try. Either the cat or the dog ones will do - the dog ones are just bigger, so you break a bit off rather than using the whole treat. My guys aren't keen on them (apart from the dog), but they work wonderfully if you cat likes them.

Another tip with pilling is to refuse to fight her over it. I have to pill my girl daily, and things got very fraught for a while, with me chasing her round the house to try and get the pill in. Now, I wait till she's chilled and relaxed, then go and give her her pill. If I botch it, or if she spits it out, I just pick up the pill and forget about it for a while. Next time she's settled in a suitable place, I try again. She still doesn't like the process, but she's pretty chilled about it, and doesn't run when she sees me coming (and she KNOWS what's coming now, as we have our routine). I don't use a popper, just walk up alongside her (usually when she's on the windowsill), stroke then restrain her with my left (non dominant) hand, then use my right (dominant) hand to ease her mouth open and slip the pill in. I aim for the back of the mouth, but on an angle so the pill doesn't land square on her tongue (if I aim straight it's too easy for her to spit out ). It's over very quickly, and I might get a dirty loom, but that's it. My girl is an ex semi-feral, and hates to be restrained in any way, so this method works for her. With previous cats, who are more chilled about being picked up or held, I'd pick them up and kneel on the floor with them between my legs. My feet prevent backwards movement, my left hand goes on their chest to gently but firmly restrain forward movement, and my right hand gently eases the mouth open to slip the pill in. I hope some of those tips help you find a method that works for you The biggest thing is to stay calm yourself. Think how your vet handles her - relaxed and gentle, but firm too. If you act the same way, you'll find it far easier than if you're tentative and nervous. Assume things will go smoothly too - if you expect a disaster, you're more likely to have one

If Feliway isn't helping noticeably, you could try Pet Remedy or Felispet Home Comfort. They're both similar concepts, but with different active ingredients. I'd probably get the spray first, as a cheaper way to test how your girl responds.

With the scratching, the scratcher I linked to before isn't available here. You could try the Leo or the Wave scratchers, or this one by Milo and Misty:
Milo & Misty Cat Hide & Scratch Curve - Kitten Scratching Post, Bed & Activity Centre - Climbing Cardboard Sisal I've had the Wave in the past (it eventually died after much use) and currently have the Milo and Misty one, which my girl adores.

Try different types of cardboard scratcher too. My guys love the larger end of the mid-sized ones, especially the ones that double as beds. I get mine from Zooplus, as they seem to be cheaper than many other places, and they're definitely well loved and used. I'm sure if you persevere you'll find something she likes that will save your carpets.

 

[Not Jackson Galaxy]

Hi Columbine

I bought the Simple Solution additive. I have also been feeding her the Royal Canin Calm for a couple of years - it changed her behaviour a bit initially, she seemed more lethargic to be honest. Hasn't changed the inappropriate elimination sadly.

I haven't tried wrapping the pill in anything. She is very pernickety about new foods and tends to turn her nose up at anything unfamiliar. I will keep that in mind for next time, but we've lost 2 days worth of antibiotics to fun and games so I think I don't have enough left to give her the full course anymore. At this point, injection is the most appealing option to me. I have mixed in a Cystease capsule into some wet food for her just now and hope that she will eat it. She refused wet food completely when I did that with an antibiotic but she was ok with Zylkene so who knows. I wonder if Cystease is much different from your Protexin Veterinary Cystophan Capsules recommendation?

Thanks for recommending horizontal scratchers. I'll choose one and get it on order.

 

[Not Jackson Galaxy]

Comparing the ingredients for Cystease vs Protexin, I think the active ingredients are the same.

 

[Columbine]

I totally understand wanting to go with the injection at this point. Neither of you need more stress right now, but hopefully the pilling tips will help next time she needs meds.

When I started with the Cycstophan, I gave in a smaller amount of extra-yummy food (for my girl this was Thrive Complete, tuna variety), until I was sure she'd eat it. I also give any supplements at breakfast time, so she's at her hungriest and least fussy

Interesting about the Cystease and Cystophan being so similar. I hope it works for her

 

[jinxybean]

Hi! Were the prior residents of your new home cat owners? I think this could be a mix of stress from moving and stress over former cat smells, especially if they made messes in the hallway. Also, scratching the carpet is a means of scent-transfer, to mark that this is her territory now.

Maybe a deep, deep carpet cleaning with extra-industrial enzymatic cleaners will get rid of the problem (if it's cat or pet smells)?

 

[Not Jackson Galaxy]

Thank you both. The previous owners did have cats that passed away some time ago but their scent could well linger on.

When she urinated on the hallway carpet, I used a ton of home made and store bought (Simple Solution x3 varieties!) cleaners plus I bought a wet vacuum cleaner so I really hope i've neutralised the carpet!

I bought both the Wave and the Leo scratchers as she scratches in more than one place. Seriously throwing money at this. Will call vet tomorrow for jab.

Your Cystophan does look better as it is chicken flavoured and has an extra ingredient which stimulates the production of serotonin so i'd stick with that. But I don't have to buy it in place of Cystease which helps the bank balance a smidge.

 

[Not Jackson Galaxy]

We went to the vet today who administered the antibiotic injection. The vet seemed pretty sceptical about it being Cystitis. She said her temperature is normal, the protein in her urine was normal, there was only trace amounts of blood in the urine and she hasn't lost any weight. That said she hasn't run a test for urine crystals. She said the next thing they could do is scan her bladder.

The vet also said that she's probably just one of those stressy cats that are just born that way and there's nothing you can do about it. Not a particularly optimistic outlook.

 

[nollie317]

Wow, I didn't realize I posted my thread right after you, same exact problem...
So sadly I have no advice, but you're not alone! It's been very frustrating for us.
Our first step was a full vet examination. We were certain it was a bladder issue, but he's totally healthy.

Again, wish I had some advice for you but once we get some of our own I'll be sure to share.

 

[Columbine]

If it is 'just' stress, there are still plenty of things you can do. Interactive playtime is a great stress buster, and gives her a positive and healthy way to own her new home. With that, and other similar stress busting measures, you may find you can get through this issue. If pill free methods don't work on there own, there's the option of calming supplements...or even anti anxiety meds if she's permanently stressed out. Sure, some cats are stress heads, but there are always ways to manage it. It may just take a while to find what works best for your girl.
Solving Cat Behavior Problems: The Key Ingredient
Six Surefire Strategies To Reduce Stress In Cats
You, Your Cat And Stress
Anti-anxiety Medication For Cats
Feline Idiopathic Cystitis - How To Improve Your Cat's Quality Of Life

 

[Not Jackson Galaxy]

Hello, if anyone is still interested. We're still having problems in the litter tray department. Still working on it. She used a tray with cat attract litter in once! She also uses the bath, the floor and sometimes a puppy pad... I've bought Cystease which we're using now as well.

Has anyone tried using crate training? I remember reading something once which talked about getting cage which fits a bed, litter tray and food bowl. This kind of forces the cat to use the litter tray. Just because it feels to me that it once hurt to pee which she associated with the litter tray so she needs re training?

But anyway, here's a picture of her "using" one of her new horizontal scratching pads. Shame she still scratches the carpet right next to it!

 

[rubysmama]

Awww... she's such a cutie pie.

About crate training, it doesn't come up too often on the forums, but we did have one member who tried it, and was mostly successfully with retraining their cat to use the litter box.

Here's their thread: About To Start Crate Training For My Extremely Litter Box Averse Cat

Plus here's a link with info on crate training: http://www.ourcompanions.org/pdf/OC Crate Training for Your Cat.pdf

If you decided to try it, please let us know how it goes.

 

[Columbine]

I'm so sorry you're still having issues. There really does seem to be something stopping her from using the box...I just wish she could speak and tell us why.

I'm afraid I'm out of ideas. I've never dealt with such a difficult case myself. Hopefully another member will have more suggestions, or will know more about using crate training for this issue. I'm still rooting for you though. It's wonderful that you're sticking with her and are committed to trying to work through all of this. She's so lucky to have found you!