How Can I Tell When It's Safe To Let My Adult Cat And New Kitten Interact?

[Cf24248]

Ok, so this might be a little long, I'm sorry!

I posted here not too long ago about my new kitten and my adult cat Monty. I concluded that my adult cat's aggressive reaction to my kitten was fear as opposed to actual aggression, and if I let HIM make the choice to approach us he was much better about it. If I pushed him, his fear would turn into aggression and he'd start hissing, swatting, coming after the kitten. It's been about a month and a week of *very slow* progress. Each day when I get home now, I will take Ori (the kitten) out of his room and sit on the floor in the kitchen with him. Monty would usually approach for a sniff and then move on. This is after scent swapping, eating other side of doors, etc. It was our "next step" so to speak. I had moved to doing this because while originally I Was just letting them see each other through the crack in the kitten's door, eventually Monty would refuse to come over to the door at all. So I would bring kitten downstairs with me and let him approach us there instead.

That's all I ever asked of him - approach on his own, a positive interaction, and move on. I found that if I pushed for more interaction or progress, Monty would hiss and smack the kitten and run, and then it was DAYS before we would be back to the same spot. He would regress several steps in progress. I let him make what progress he was comfortable with.

I also started having Ori with me on a harness and lead. Monty would sit apart and watch, and learn that the kitten is going to be a part of the family. Ori is now very often with us on a harness (he needs to be on one, because all he wants to do is go get Monty to love him and runs up to him the moment he's free). Monty still gets plenty of attention and love, and he is the only one with us at night.

Recently, when I get home and Monty is happy and purring, when I bring Ori out Monty will give him about a minute of head rubs and even groom his head, but only if I am holding the kitten and he's still. This has been going on for about two weeks. I'll also take out my heat blanket which Monty LOVES and lounge in the morning with Ori in my lap, and while Monty ran off the first several times will now share the blanket with us in the mornings - albeit a good distance apart, but he is comfortable enough to sleep with the kitten nearby. His choice, his terms, I never push him. He only does the grooming when I first come home, because he's happy and purring and in a good mood. Other times he will give a sniff and maybe a head butt and then he will leave. They do play with one another underneath the door to my lounge room (it has a clear cat door that I keep locked so they can see each other but not interact) but when Monty gets too overstimulated playing he will hiss and leave.

He still tends to avoid the kitten if he can, and just watch. The other day was the first time I let the kitten loose in the kitchen with Monty when I first came home. There was the initial head butts and a little grooming. Kitten was zooming around the kitchen, enthralled with his freedom. He approached Monty once and circled around, meowing and butting him. Monty kind of avoided him for a few seconds, then hissed and the kitten ran off to sniff stuff.

He approached a second time, same story - Circling, mewing, Monty not running away but backtracking to avoid him. He hissed again, and gave him three good swats to the floor before he sauntered off into the living room.

At this time I took the kitten back upstairs to hang out with us. My question is, can I keep trying this when I get home? The swats were not aggressive. Monty didn't run in fear, he walked away. He didn't bite. He didn't go after Ori, he hissed when he was provoked. I think it's the kitten's energy level that he doesn't like - it's too high for his liking when he's such a chill cat. Should I start allowing this supervised interaction time? Or do you think I should only allow it when Ori is in my lap still? On a harness? Monty has to get used to it, and I think if I don't make a little push he never will, just like I had to start bringing Ori downstairs with me when progress stopped at the crack in the door. It seems like Monty is just setting his limits to the kitten, but I don't want a catfight either.

I feel like I have to be real careful with my next steps. I think he is very close to a grudging acceptance that will likely turn into a friendship, but I'm worried about going backwards too. Does this behavior sound like a limit establishing behavior, or should I wait longer to let them interact freely together?

 

[ArtNJ]

I would allow monitored free interaction at this point. Some older cats will never be wild about being jumped on by a kitten, and the hissing and swatting may only fade quite slowly. I'm just not sure you will make further progress with leash interactions.

It is actually a good thing if the older cat will be a bit assertive and hold down the kitten when the older cat doesn't want to play -- pretty much the only thing that teaches the kitten to be responsive to the older cats cues. Its even good if the older cat makes the kitten squeal a little. Not all older cats will do that though. Some just hiss, swat and run.

Bottom line - I think you have done about what you can, now you need to let them do their thing and see where they end up. It unfortunately may not be what your hoping, the morning lick might go away, but I don't think further leash training will teach the kitten restraint or the older cat to like being jumped on.

P.S. Good job on the leash phase of your training. Not something we usually recommend here, but it seems to have been quite helpful.

 

[Cf24248]

Can I ask why you don't recommend leash training a cat? It was the only way I could think to let the kitten be around the house where Monty can see him without the kitten running up to him before he is ready, and to give Monty a zone of space where he can be close but be safe from too much interaction. Or, do you mean it's not recommended as in it's not something commonly done?

Also because I have considered bringing him outside on the deck with me in the summers, but that's still a little up in the air! He used to be a stray and so far is content to just look out the windows.

And thanks for the reply, I will let them have some monitored time when I get home from work and just separate them if it looks too much like actual aggression I just made his appointment for neutering tomorrow so it'll be a few days before I let them see each other again. I am hoping the neutering helps Monty's acceptance of him as well.

 

[ArtNJ]

Why we don't recommend leash training? Not totally sure. The guide on here ends its recommended steps with using double high baby gates so they can see each other. The cracked door you used is an alternative recommended by Jackson Galaxy who thinks that seeing all of the other cat is too much.

I mean, as far as kitten + big cat goes, there is only so much you can do, and it will rarely be all that bad even if you dump them together immediately as many of us have done. But I'm not actually sure why leashing isn't something that is more used in adult-adult cat introductions. Just gives you the extra layer of control to stop things if you know who the offending cat is going to be. At worst its overkill, but it seems to me it could be a good idea if you see the older cat having a difficult time with the early stages, as you did.

I've explained it this way - to me, no one really knows how much a formal introduction process helps with kitten + big cat. Unlike adult-adult, it seems that the problems are not just unfamiliarity and stress. With a kitten, there is the added layer of kittens almost never respecting boundaries and just wanting to play play play, and the introduction doesn't make that problem go away or get the older cat to like it. But you don't want to be in the situation where a year later, the big cat still growls and leaves the room when the young cat approaches and wonder if you could have done something different. So with that in mind, seems to me that a leash phase is a good idea if things aren't going great.

 

[catlover73]

How does the Ori react when Monty is hissing and swatting at him? Does he back off or keep trying to get Monty to play? I am asking this because I am trying to figure out if Monty is just trying to teach Ori boundaries. If there are no actual fights and both cats are just going their separate ways after the hissing and swatting then this is just them communicating with each other. I would still continue to do supervised time together even if there is no aggression so that Monty does not feel overwhelmed by Ori wanting to play.

I am going to share a story here that might help you figure out a little bit more about what is happening in these interactions. 12 years ago I adopted a six week old kitten named Starbuck into a household with 2 large adult male cats that were brothers. One of my male cats Tegato took on the role of teaching Starbuck boundaries. She was taken away from mom and siblings too young and was under-socialized. She tried to communicate play by nipping heads. Tegato started pinning her to the floor with one paw when she would bite him until she calmed down. Starbuck did not like this and would scream her head off. The first time this happened I walked into her screaming while pinned to the floor. I did not see what happened before this so I separated them. The 2nd time I saw the whole situation unfold in front of me. I realized that her screaming was just complaining. Although Tegato was much bigger than her he was not doing anything to hurt Starbuck. She just did not like being told "no." She did learn that biting was not an acceptable way to ask for play time. Once she calmed down Tegato would release her and play with her. Once she realized that I knew she was not being hurt and let these interactions play out the screaming from her also stopped. I also had to teach Starbuck that nipping noses was not an acceptable way to communicate with humans.

The hissing and swatting you are seeing from Monty could be this same type of communication. Watch Monty's body language when this is happening. Tegato was relaxed when he pinned Starbuck with his paw.

 

[ArtNJ]

I agree with catlover73 . Only reason I didn't specifically get into it was you mentioned that the older cat would "chase" and I think you said "go after" too. That is unusual for a big cat to do with a tiny kitten and struck me as different than the ideal situation of the big cat teaching limits. But since it is quite rare for an older cat to go after a tiny kitten, its possible that things were never as bad as you feared and that the older cat really just wanted to school the kitten.

Edit: you didn't actually say this was a 12 week old type kitten. If your using the term kitten for say a 6 month old, then you could easily have more aggressive interactions.

 

[Cf24248]

Ok, I see! I did the door crack just because we didn't have a baby gate, and I was entirely sure one of the cats would bowl it over (mainly Monty, who at the time would aggressively go after Ori if he saw too much of him). I had to stop the door cracking because Ori would stick his little paw through and reach for Monty, which was too much for him to handle (and I think the reason he stopped coming around the door).

I thought you'd meant "not recommended" as in actively advised against. I know a lot of cats don't take well to a harness, but he adapted remarkably quickly. Monty does not do well on a lead and as such I could see it being more of a problem than a help, but having one cat on a lead is incredibly helpful to us!

Dumping them together and letting them sort it out would not have been a good idea, as Monty has historically been incredibly aggressive to other cats to the point of spending all of his time actively hunting them through the house so he could attack them - and not at all in a playful manner - for months on end, to where we had to separate them because the other cat was becoming neurotic in his avoidance of Monty. We weren't even going to try a second cat, but I found the kitten at work and though we could try if we went slow enough. I'm so happy it's working

 

[ArtNJ]

Yeah, maybe that is why its not a standard recommendation -- might take most kittens/cats too long to get used to the leash. Still a nice idea to keep in mind, glad it helped you.

Its incredibly rare for a big cat to actually hurt a tiny 12-14 week old kitten. They might have actually gotten into a playing groove. But it never hurts to start slow and be cautious!

 

[Cf24248]

How does the Ori react when Monty is hissing and swatting at him? Does he back off or keep trying to get Monty to play? I am asking this because I am trying to figure out if Monty is just trying to teach Ori boundaries. If there are no actual fights and both cats are just going their separate ways after the hissing and swatting then this is just them communicating with each other. I would still continue to do supervised time together even if there is no aggression so that Monty does not feel overwhelmed by Ori wanting to play.

I am going to share a story here that might help you figure out a little bit more about what is happening in these interactions. 12 years ago I adopted a six week old kitten named Starbuck into a household with 2 large adult male cats that were brothers. One of my male cats Tegato took on the role of teaching Starbuck boundaries. She was taken away from mom and siblings too young and was under-socialized. She tried to communicate play by nipping heads. Tegato started pinning her to the floor with one paw when she would bite him until she calmed down. Starbuck did not like this and would scream her head off. The first time this happened I walked into her screaming while pinned to the floor. I did not see what happened before this so I separated them. The 2nd time I saw the whole situation unfold in front of me. I realized that her screaming was just complaining. Although Tegato was much bigger than her he was not doing anything to hurt Starbuck. She just did not like being told "no." She did learn that biting was not an acceptable way to ask for play time. Once she calmed down Tegato would release her and play with her. Once she realized that I knew she was not being hurt and let these interactions play out the screaming from her also stopped. I also had to teach Starbuck that nipping noses was not an acceptable way to communicate with humans.

The hissing and swatting you are seeing from Monty could be this same type of communication. Watch Monty's body language when this is happening. Tegato was relaxed when he pinned Starbuck with his paw.

He seems a little heartbroken for a couple seconds that his favorite cat ever (I think ALL cats are his favorite cats ever) would be mean to him, then he forgets and bounds off to do kitten things and inevitably comes back for more.

I am *thinking* it's a boundaries thing, because there was no aggression, and he didn't go after Ori - he only hissed and pinned when Ori wouldn't leave him be. And he didn't seem too scared afterwards, either, just kind of curmudgeonly. Maybe I should have left them a little longer than two interactions I will have to see how it goes tonight!

 

[Cf24248]

I agree with catlover73 . Only reason I didn't specifically get into it was you mentioned that the older cat would "chase" and I think you said "go after" too. That is unusual for a big cat to do with a tiny kitten and struck me as different than the ideal situation of the big cat teaching limits. But since it is quite rare for an older cat to go after a tiny kitten, its possible that things were never as bad as you feared and that the older cat really just wanted to school the kitten.

Edit: you didn't actually say this was a 12 week old type kitten. If your using the term kitten for say a 6 month old, then you could easily have more aggressive interactions.

Initially, he would go after him, aggressively. I mentioned in another reply that he has historically been horrible with the only other cat he ever lived with. That included actively hunting him down, and he showed a little bit of his behavior at first. However, that was a long time ago when he was still half stray, and we have since moved away from that "home turf" outside and he's a very different cat. The "going after" has long since stopped once I started letting Monty make his own progress, I just didn't want it to start again.

The kitten is *roughly*12 weeks old, maybe 14?

 

[catlover73]

He seems a little heartbroken for a couple seconds that his favorite cat ever (I think ALL cats are his favorite cats ever) would be mean to him, then he forgets and bounds off to do kitten things and inevitably comes back for more.

I am *thinking* it's a boundaries thing, because there was no aggression, and he didn't go after Ori - he only hissed and pinned when Ori wouldn't leave him be. And he didn't seem too scared afterwards, either, just kind of curmudgeonly. Maybe I should have left them a little longer than two interactions I will have to see how it goes tonight!

I think it would be fine to take a step back and watch. It is good that Ori is backing off after the hissing and swatting. I agree that this is more likely to be a boundaries thing if Monty is not actually going after Ori. I would still supervise the interactions though until you have a full picture of what is happening. Perhaps after tonight you can provide more information about what is happening in these interactions. If you have a way to do so while still supervising perhaps posting a video would be helpful so that other members can see the interaction taking place as you are seeing it. I can say that for me I really had to force myself to take a step back and watch because of Starbuck's screaming. My hubby was in the room for the 2nd interaction and told me to leave them be. I was scared to do it but followed my hubby's lead. Tegato never went after Starbuck the pinning her down was a reaction to her behavior. His brother Claude was actually scared of Starbuck at first. Once Tegato taught her manners Claude also started playing with her too. My adult cats could also easily get away from Starbuck if they wanted to. She is a munchkin and does not jump much. There were plenty of high up spaces they could access that she could not. Claude used to hang out on top of furniture and watch things. He never hissed at her at all but would just remove himself from the area when she was being a brat. When she was calm and sleepy Claude would hang out with her. Both the brothers would groom her when she was calm and everyone shared the bed at night.

 

[duncanmac]

A ArtNJ and catlover73 have covered most of the bases. In a nutshell, you're doing fine. A little more supervised interaction and you should have two integrated cats.

I just recently (3 weeks ago) adopted a 12 week old kitten into a house with 2 2-year-old boys (all three are fixed). Paisley is a tiny little thing, the boys are big bruisers. One, Duncan, the boss, was very hissy and growled quite a bit whenever he saw her. Barry, Duncan's adoring flunky, was shyer and mostly kept his distance and watched. I rushed the introductions mostly because I felt they were all "getting along" even if it was a little rough around the edges. What I noticed was that the boys have no idea what to make of the kitten. They have no idea what to do with her - they are just confused. I expect a better hierarchy to establish itself in a month or two, but right now the boys are just befuddled.

 

[Cf24248]

Ok, you all helped my fears quite a bit! I allowed about 10 minutes of supervised interaction when I got home. Monty did groom Ori several times when he'd approach, a good solid 5 seconds or so of head licks. He did get slightly more exasperated each time until he finally pushed him to the floor. When Ori tried to get up and move to him, Monty scruffed him until he flopped on to his side, swatted him, and when Ori was good and submissive gave one (angry) head lick before stalking off. So, definitely boundary setting and not aggression

Ori bounded around the rest of the time. He would approach Monty or try to play, get an angry look, and give him a wide berth.

The last time Monty approached Ori when he was laying down, he gave his rear a good sniff and a lick. He got really agitated at this - he gave the Flehmen response and started whipping his tail, and them when Ori would walk near him he'd jump and bite. So, at that time I separated them. It was a good day.

I'm guessing the agitation is because Ori is not neutered. His appointment it tomorrow so I have high hopes that post neutering it will no longer be an issue. Possibly related, Monty also gets really agotated and starts hissing when he is allowed to sniff Ori's litter box.

Super happy with how it went today

 

[jen]

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but I think you are overthinking and overreacting to much of this in the sense that you are making more work for yourself and more stress than you need

You started out introducing them properly from what I can tell. Hissing and swatting and growling even are forms of communication. This is normal and it is GREAT that it is happening. It is WONDERFUL that Monty tells the newcomer to back off, keep his distance, etc. This NEEDS to happen for cats to get along. I think they are perfectly fine to intermingle. If you want to separate them when you are gone, that is understandable. But let them be together! Let them interact! Play with them together. Redirect the younger ones attention with a laser pointer if he is really annoying Monty. But Monty will put Ori in his place if the need arises, they are not going to hurt each other. Let them hiss and growl and communicate with each other. This will build a good relationship between them. Don't scold or react when they are hissing or whatever vocalizations they make. Let it happen. This all sounds positive to me.

 

[Cf24248]

You're probably right! After he is neutered tomorrow and heals up they will be allowed to intermingle as long as I am home, after seeing the good progress today.

Knowing how he was with the other cat he lived with - hunting him down endlessly, the other poor cat becoming a ragged neurotic mess - I became so incredibly scared of his interacting with other cats. I always told myself I will not BUY another kitten because it wouldn't be fair to the kitten if it didn't work, but if one fell into my lap .. and this one did much as I do think he needed the extended slow introduction, I AM probably overthinking it still.

 

[ArtNJ]

Maybe he would have been a total jerk if you adopted an adult cat, but there is a lot more toleration of kittens. Sometimes the older cat will be super stressed, sometimes the older cat will set limits, but hunting the kitten with the intent to hurt it really doesn't happen. Some sort of biological hard wiring.

Jen is correct that it tends to go much better if the older cat is willing to set limits. Absent the neutering, you could let them interact freely.