Homeopathy

[Daisy6]

The low-phosphorus thing is real. Cats with CRF do need that nutrient to be much lower. The fake part is reducing protein. That myth comes from a mixup: proteins in animals and phosphorus are in all the same places except eggs. People assume protein is the problem when it is actually phosphorus.

 

[nati85]

Homeopathy is the craziest scam out there! So many people of all education levels buy into it, which drives me nuts. The theory is that if something is causing a problem, like let's say, a poison, the antidote is to take that poison and dilute it down astronomically so that there is no trace of the poison left, but if you shake it really hard (I wish I was making this up), then the water molecules keep a "memory" of the poison and so they can somehow cure it. Also the more dilute it is, the more powerful it's supposed to be. It makes absolutely no sense. Surprise surprise, no reputable studies have ever been able to prove that homeopathic medicines actually work! Homeopathy was invented back when medicine was about balance of the humors and bloodletting and other practices that have not stood the test of time.

A very important caution about homeopathic medicines for pets and people: since they're not technically medicine, they're also not regulated very much, and they don't have to prove that they're safe like actual drugs do.

Moving on, the word "holistic" doesn't strictly mean natural. It means that there is a focus on keeping the entire body healthy in order to treat and prevent health problems rather than addressing problems individually. The theory there is that focusing just on one problem or one body system leads to tunnel vision and can negatively impact other body systems because they are all interconnected, whereas improving overall health has better success. (So diet, for example, plays a huge role in holistic medicine.) I really like this approach personally.

I try to assess treatments objectively, whether they are "natural" or not. There's lots of overlap with those labels too-sometimes a natural ingredient contains the exact same chemicals that a prescribed drug does, which is why they work, and it doesn't mean one is better than the other. Sometimes drugs are over-prescribed or have dangerous side effects. Sometimes natural treatments can be toxic. It all depends.

I'm sure you've read all about a low phosphorus diet for CKD. I don't know of much else out there. I would encourage you to research any ingredient extensively before feeding it, because the job of the kidney is to filter out toxins, so if they're not functioning well, you want to be extra careful to avoid anything that could be toxic.

Loved your input!
When I started researching homeopathy to see if it was really something that made sense to me for my kitty, I found out about what you said on the first paragraph. I did not know this.

However, I find it really hard to believe that there is 0% truth to it because there are a couple of millions of people that are supposedly having beneficial results with it. Not only that but also many doctors majoring in homeopathy. Many people attending to congresses and such events about this topic. And it's all just a scam? I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense. As it doesn't make sense diluting a solution to that extent either.

Why can't it be simpler right?

 

[molly92]

Loved your input!
When I started researching homeopathy to see if it was really something that made sense to me for my kitty, I found out about what you said on the first paragraph. I did not know this.

However, I find it really hard to believe that there is 0% truth to it because there are a couple of millions of people that are supposedly having beneficial results with it. Not only that but also many doctors majoring in homeopathy. Many people attending to congresses and such events about this topic. And it's all just a scam? I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense. As it doesn't make sense diluting a solution to that extent either.

Why can't it be simpler right?

Doctors aren't taught homeopathy in med school. From what I can tell, they go to other institutions that specialize in homeopathy afterwards if they want to become a homeopathic practitioner, but just doing some quick googling, those don't look that legitimate. This is what the American University of Complementary Medicine says on their own website:

"AUCM is not a regionally accredited university. There are currently no specialty accrediting bodies approved by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) for degree programs in Homeopathy or Ayurveda."

I'm sure lots of them believe in it, they're (mostly) not intentionally scamming people. But the placebo effect explains a lot. Systematic reviews of studies have proven that homeopathic medicines do just as well as sugar pills, and not any better.

There's lots of false information out there that is widely believed. There are lots of scientists that do bad science and get attention for their "results." But vaccines don't cause autism. GMO's aren't evil. Global warming is real. One single scientific study on its own is never proof.

 

[MRG2018]

I use a 50-50 mix of vinegar and rubbing alcohol to clean kitty ears and prevent yeast (they don’t like the acid). That’s about as homeopathic as I get.

That is not homeopathy, and alcohol should never be rubbed into ears or anywhere else- this is far as I know regarding the use of alcohol with cats.

Can you explain this? If it is physically impossible there would be no homeopathy.

And as such it is not considered health related as well. But just as snake oil exists, there are some people who keep homeopathy around.

Daisy, the guy that invented homeopathy established that the medicine was to be diluted x amount of times (usually ALOT) for it to work. I read it on Wikipedia. Most skeptics use this argument to back up their theory that is a scam.

I'm having a hard time believing that it could be a scam. I mean... could there be schools that teach this to actual doctors if it was a scam? "The school of scam". This are licensed doctors we are talking about that choose to major in homeopathy. I don't know... sounds funny to me.

It's like saying psychotherapy is a scam because they can't prescribe drugs or counselling.

I dont find many licensed doctors prescribing homeopathy , and there are no trials establishing efficacy. So for now, it remains invalidated.
There are Ayurvedic schools as well , a lot of them, doesnt mean it works all the time.
And it cannot be compared to psychologist's therapy or behavior therapy because there are two worlds apart.
This is like adding 2 gallons of water to your benadryl and expecting your cough to go away.

@Willowy Yay for you for knowing exactly what homeopathy is. Just so much nonsense but it promises the world. Real medicine knows it can't promise you a rose garden and gets punished for it. Sigh.

wish we could promise rose gardens....

I just want natural remedies to aid (not cure, aid) CKD. Natrual ways to *make it better*. Overall health with natural remedies as I use myself. Chamomile for my stomch. Thyme for the flu or respiratpry issues. Cranberry juice to flush out UTIs and so on...

What do you use to kill bacteria or fungal infections?

Yes! Thank you! <3

That's actually how I thought about going to an homeopath. I'm not a vet so I didn't feel comfortable trying those things. When you don't know (like me) or you are not sure... you can actually hurt your kitty. So I thought I'd better see a qualified vet (who actually knows what s/he's is doing) that has a *natural* approach to treatment. And here I am... asking for opinions or testimonials.

Chamomile, thyme, cranberries are not homeopathy. More like naturopaths.

Natural things can also be extremely dangerous. So do read up on the warnings.

Homeopathy is the craziest scam out there! So many people of all education levels buy into it, which drives me nuts. The theory is that if something is causing a problem, like let's say, a poison, the antidote is to take that poison and dilute it down astronomically so that there is no trace of the poison left, but if you shake it really hard (I wish I was making this up), then the water molecules keep a "memory" of the poison and so they can somehow cure it. Also the more dilute it is, the more powerful it's supposed to be. It makes absolutely no sense. Surprise surprise, no reputable studies have ever been able to prove that homeopathic medicines actually work! Homeopathy was invented back when medicine was about balance of the humors and bloodletting and other practices that have not stood the test of time.

A very important caution about homeopathic medicines for pets and people: since they're not technically medicine, they're also not regulated very much, and they don't have to prove that they're safe like actual drugs do.

Moving on, the word "holistic" doesn't strictly mean natural. It means that there is a focus on keeping the entire body healthy in order to treat and prevent health problems rather than addressing problems individually. The theory there is that focusing just on one problem or one body system leads to tunnel vision and can negatively impact other body systems because they are all interconnected, whereas improving overall health has better success. (So diet, for example, plays a huge role in holistic medicine.) I really like this approach personally.

I try to assess treatments objectively, whether they are "natural" or not. There's lots of overlap with those labels too-sometimes a natural ingredient contains the exact same chemicals that a prescribed drug does, which is why they work, and it doesn't mean one is better than the other. Sometimes drugs are over-prescribed or have dangerous side effects. Sometimes natural treatments can be toxic. It all depends.

I'm sure you've read all about a low phosphorus diet for CKD. I don't know of much else out there. I would encourage you to research any ingredient extensively before feeding it, because the job of the kidney is to filter out toxins, so if they're not functioning well, you want to be extra careful to avoid anything that could be toxic.

Thank you. Homeopathy is the left overs from the era of bloodletting when we had no info on bacteria or anything that caused infections.

And holistic medicine is exactly what your described. It does not mean natural, it means a holistic approach to treating a patient, as in overall body ailments, not just focusing on back pain or foot calluses etc.
In socialist medical healthcare systems, or atleast one of them that I am familiar with, this is the approach. Doctors prescribe both medications and herbs. The primary objective is to promote prevention, good diets, lifestyle modifications, regular screenings, etc.

Most of modern medicinal drugs are derived from natural sources. They are produced synthetically sometimes to ensure proper dosage in every pill or capsule. It all depends upon dosage, every natural or 'artificial' chemicals.

Loved your input!
When I started researching homeopathy to see if it was really something that made sense to me for my kitty, I found out about what you said on the first paragraph. I did not know this.

However, I find it really hard to believe that there is 0% truth to it because there are a couple of millions of people that are supposedly having beneficial results with it. Not only that but also many doctors majoring in homeopathy. Many people attending to congresses and such events about this topic. And it's all just a scam? I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense. As it doesn't make sense diluting a solution to that extent either.

Why can't it be simpler right?

Millions of people? Where did you get that number from?
You can make a congress for any topic, including trash can preservation and cat hair crocheting.

Before you decide on a therapy, understand what it is. That will give you a better idea if its worth using or not.

Doctors aren't taught homeopathy in med school. From what I can tell, they go to other institutions that specialize in homeopathy afterwards if they want to become a homeopathic practitioner, but just doing some quick googling, those don't look that legitimate. This is what the American University of Complementary Medicine says on their own website:

"AUCM is not a regionally accredited university. There are currently no specialty accrediting bodies approved by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) for degree programs in Homeopathy or Ayurveda."

I'm sure lots of them believe in it, they're (mostly) not intentionally scamming people. But the placebo effect explains a lot. Systematic reviews of studies have proven that homeopathic medicines do just as well as sugar pills, and not any better.

There's lots of false information out there that is widely believed. There are lots of scientists that do bad science and get attention for their "results." But vaccines don't cause autism. GMO's aren't evil. Global warming is real. One single scientific study on its own is never proof.

MD and DO does not include homeopathy education. We don't have time for fiction. Only facts.
There is no accreditation authority because there is no evidence that homeopathy can cure or treat any condition. If millions of people tout how good it is,while completely ignoring placebo effect, why cant someone publish the results of a nice controlled trial with homeopathy treating something?

Where did the whole GMO is evil come into play? GMO is the only reason we are able to provide food to 8 billion people, and GMO will be the only thing that saves our crops from arid environment due to pandemic global pollution (caused by global warming). Some of us dont refer to it as global warming. Pandemic global pollution is the more realistic term for it and yes, its a drastic term. But thats the reality.

If vaccines did cause autism, i would choose autism over being dead from smallpox or measles or polio.

 

[nati85]

Doctors aren't taught homeopathy in med school.

I didn't say that. Maybe the word major was incorrectly used since english is not my native language. I meant what you said. They are doctors before being homeopaths. They studied years and years of *conventional* medicine and they decided to study homeopathy as their *specialty* so to speak.

 

[nati85]

What do you use to kill bacteria or fungal infections?

I use tea tree oil. Works wonders! Lavander oil has some antisceptic properties too but it's most appropiate to heal wounds.

I dont find many licensed doctors prescribing homeopathy.

In my country, all homeopaths are licenced doctors that decided to study homeopathy afterwards.

Chamomile, thyme, cranberries are not homeopathy. More like naturopaths.

That's what I said earlier.

Millions of people? Where did you get that number from?

You are right. I should have said hundreds of millions since only in India it's 100 million people relying in solely on homeopathy. The World is a big place, huh.

Before you decide on a therapy, understand what it is. That will give you a better idea if its worth using or not.

It's what I'm trying to do.

 

[MRG2018]

I didn't say that. Maybe the word major was incorrectly used since english is not my native language. I meant what you said. They are doctors before being homeopaths. They studied years and years of *conventional* medicine and they decided to study homeopathy as their *specialty* so to speak.

interesting. So they study conventional medicine and then continue to specialize in homeopathy?
What country is this?

I use tea tree oil. Works wonders! Lavander oil has some antisceptic properties too but it's most appropiate to heal wounds.

Does it cover all types of bacteria, virus and fungal agents? I know it is a very weak antiseptic agent of sorts.

You are right. I should have said hundreds of millions since only in India it's 100 million people relying in solely on homeopathy. The World is a big place, huh.

You might be confusing ayurveda with homeopathy. 100 million people in India touting homeopathy? Nope not familiar with that statistic, it would help if you can post a source.
I found this: A short history of the development of homeopathy in India. - PubMed - NCBI

Doesn't quote number of patients, but people practicing homeopathy in India at 200,000. Just so you know both ayurveda and homeopathy doctors prescribe allopathy medications (conventional medicine) illegally, or with minimal authority.
I am also aware it is practiced after allopathy and ayurveda, and I am familiar with ayurvedic doctors and homeopathy doctors who got into these schools because they couldn't get into allopathy medicine schools. Since there is big gap of health services providers in the rural area, these doctors do practice there and do prescribe allopathy medications as well.

 

[nati85]

interesting. So they study conventional medicine and then continue to specialize in homeopathy?
What country is this?

It's like this in many countries. I live in Argentina.

Does it cover all types of bacteria, virus and fungal agents? I know it is a very weak antiseptic agent of sorts.

Do I know all the type of bacteria, virus and fungal agents in the world? Oh, no I don't. I just know I use this and it works. That's all I need.

You might be confusing ayurveda with homeopathy. 100 million people in India touting homeopathy? Nope not familiar with that statistic, it would help if you can post a source.

No, I'm not. I stated the difference before.

I leave you a few links here.
Homeopathy use around the world

Homeopathic Medicine: Europe's #1 Alternative for Doctors | HuffPost


I'm not here to debate anything with anyone. I created this thread so that people that have actual experience with homeopathy could share their experience. I just want to learn. I can't be for or against anything without knowledge. And even though homeopathy methods sound funny from afar I still think I do not know enough to decide weather it is placebo or not. I'm having a hard time believing that all those doctors that could easily practice conventional medicine decide to study homeopathy. No-one else finds this a bit strange?
Suppose I'm a doctor who has just graduated Med school: "Ok so I've studied 10 years of medicine to save people's lives. Now I want to specialize in homeopathy."
Sounds odd to me, to say the least.

I appreciate it if someone who has experience with homeopathic care with their pets would share their experience. Thanks again

 

[MRG2018]

It's like this in many countries. I live in Argentina.

Ok its a little different in India, and I think way different in the US.

Thank you for the links.

None of us want a debate, but this is more like a public thread. I expect some people will read this particular thread and would like to have info on both sides.

Since it seems you genuinely care about your cat- and your primary objective of this thread was to use something natural or homeopathic or whatever works. Some of us are giving the opinion that it does not work, or naturopathy works etc.

If a drug pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics (how to affects our body, and how are body affects the drug) is not available to read or understand, there is no way anyone can satisfactorily push for that drug, homeopathy or otherwise.

One the basic things need to be understood about anything you use, from mushrooms to twig leaves- how does it get absorbed, how much does get absorbed, when does the effect peak, when does the effect finish, and how it is eliminated from the body, along with metabolites. This is how everything is based on. We want to use something that achieves the desired effect in the body, human or cat, the dose is constant everytime you render this product, and that the body is able to remove it safely without it accumulating in the body and causing a toxic reaction.

I am not sure why you assume that allopathy doctors who go ahead and specialize in homeopathy do not prescribe both. You need a license to prescribe both and I am assuming they pursue homeopathy to get the training to get the license to prescribe. They can prescribe both, and if they feel like it, they might prescribe both to complement each others.
This is also driven by the demand of the market, than using the best treatment sometimes. If someone wants homeopathic drug, then the doctor has to give them that. The doctor can only recommend or prescribe, it is the patient's choice to choose one or the other, or both.

For example, there are much safer methods to lose weight, yet some doctors push more invasive and more risky procedures on patients to lose weight either because money or because they are not trained in alternative options. However, if the demand grows for non-invasive treatment for weight loss, then everyone who gets the earning from surgical weight loss procedures, have to change, evolve and get trained.

So in short, you can get the ideal drug recommended for whatever issues you have, however if you want it to be natural or homeopathic product, then the doctor will oblige; unless they know that it might hurt you instead of treating you. Demand of certain products can force a physician to alter their practice a bit to cater to a wider set of patients. I am sure some of them believe in it.