home made raw vs. freeze dried

[nljnky]

Hello Everyone,

My 11 yr old cat Chloe has IBS, Chronic diahrea for about 8 months.
It was suggested that I try raw feeding. I order from Hare today, meat bone organ, and mix in appropriate supplement mix from them.
She has been very difficult to transition. I found that she does like Stella and Chewy's. I have been feeding her that exclusivly for several days now.
I really don't see much improvement in her poops.
So my question is, does the freeze drying effect the benefits of raw feeding?
I am slowly trying to introduce some raw chicken by topping with turkey hearts, she loves those.
I am just a little discouraged if this is going to help my poor girl.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

 

[ritz]

Sorry Chloe is still having problems.

I feed raw, never have feed freeze dried, but it certainly shouldn't affect the benefits of raw feeding. 

What protein is in the Stella's & Chewy's that Chloe likes--maybe she is allergic to chicken? pumpkin?

And when you switched from Hare Today to S&C, did you do it gradually or all at once.  Some cats can get diarrhea if you change their food too quickly.

Also, are you giving her probiotics--if not, it is a good idea.  Human grade is fine.  Capsules are usually better to administer (simply pull apart and put in food) than pills.

 

[ldg]

Aw, poor Chloe! :rub:

As Ritz said, the rapid transition can be a cause of the diarrhea. :nod: And no, the freeze drying shouldn't affect it. IBD is a tough one, and sometimes raw alone won't address the issue - it really depends on how long the problem has existed, and how much healing there is to go. :heart2:

You're familiar with this site? http://www.ibdkitties.net

I also think probiotics should be started right away if you're not already using them. Best if a human acidophilus or acidophilus+bifidus supplement, ideally 10 billion CFU, once a day. I got them from the local health food store. This is the one we use:
Many members have successfully used Rad Cat for the transition. It's not as expensive to feed as the S&C, I'm pretty sure. http://www.radfood.com See if anyone locally carries it? Otherwise you can have it shipped from http://www.onlynaturalpet.com, but best to order it on the phone rather than online. Rad Cat uses bone meal rather than ground bone, and that apparently can make a difference, especially with IBD kitties. Carolina's Bugsy was allergic to chicken if canned, but did fine on the chicken Rad Cat - though you may want to start with a novel protein, like lamb? Or even turkey. :nod:

Please keep us posted!

 

[otto]

Stella&Chewy's was the raw I started with for Queen Eva, who has had intestinal issues. I started very slow, just a few nuggets a day at first (re-hyrdated of course) over a period of weeks increasing the amounts. Within a few weeks, even with only one meal of the S&C a day (in addition to her usual canned) the improvements were astounding.

I agree with slower transitions, or trying a different protein...and don't forget the probiotic!

PS (after seeing LDG's post) Queen Eva thrives on Rad Cat too.

Welcome to TCS, please keep us posted on Chloe!

 

[nljnky]

Hello again,

I know it sounded like I transitioned quickly but it was really a couple of months.
She is eating the home made raw now with stella and chewy as a topper.

I can only find rad cat about 1.5 hours from here. I would definately take the drive but how much to buy, what if she hates it. But if you think the bone may be the issue, I will go and get some. I can feed her different food from the other four cats but then she will eat theirs too so I try to feed them all the same thing.

But anyway, back to Chloe. She has somwhat formed stools sometimes now, but still has pudding too. I can hear the gurgeling in her stomach after she eats.
I tried probiotics twice, even ordered the ones you suggested. Fire hose diarrehea both times. I had to stop it.

She has been on prednisone, 5mg every other day. I was weaning her off and only giving her 2.5 mg every other day.
I think I should go back up but I really don't want to give her this, I know it will harm her in the long run.
She often will not eat in the morning. When I get home at night she is starving and eats a lot.
She has lost so much weight. I feel like she is just wasting away and I am watching it happen. I don't know what to do. I need to get weight on her.
Any suggestions?

I am going to try getting the chicken out of her diet. I have ordered stella and chewy turkey and my next order from hare today will be turkey, duck, and rabbit or lamb.

Thank you for taking the time to answer and make suggestions. I really appreciate it.

 

[ritz]

Sorry Chloe is still losing weight.  Has she had recent blood work?  Something else may be going on. 

Some of the side effects of prednisone can be diarrhea and increased hunger; did you notice any changes when you decreased the dosage?

Goose and duck are particularly high in fat.  If Chloe can handle the fat in them, then that may put some weight on her.  I would give her a little bit at first, to see how she handles it

Vibes for Chloe.

 

[nljnky]

Thank you for your reply.
Yes, she has had a full blood panel done. When everything was normal with that one, the vet sent bllod to Texas for a GI panel. That showed no indication of pancreatitis but did show low level of B12.
I take her for a B12 injection monthly.
She is in great shape aside from this.
She is more than happy to eat treats or my breakfast in the morning, just not her food. I do not want to give her canned because it was difficult to transition her.
I will put the prednisone dosage back up, that my help with the appetite.

 

[harleydiva]

Maybe try her with some green tripe?   You could try the canned first.....2 or 3 companies make it.  Solid Gold is usually the most available.  It is a natural probiotic, has the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio, provides digestive enzymes....and my cats will knock me down to get to it.  The tripe has been instrumental in getting my picky boy to eat.  He was also the one who always had pudding poop....which has gone away unless he manages to sneak some people food.  

 

[nljnky]

Thank you. I will look for it. Her tummy is definitely out of whack.
How do I give it? Dose? When? Should I still be feeding raw too?
Sorry so may questions I just don't want to do anything wrong.

I have a healthy pet food store here. I hope I can find it there so I can start right away

 

[harleydiva]

Green Tripe is considered meat, so you can feed it as a whole meal, or mix with other proteins.  I knew about tripe because I had a dog with digestive issues in the past, and used it for him.  I hadn't really thought about feeding it to the cats, but ordered a 2 lb container of beef mixed with tripe in my last order.....the cats went crazy for it.  Now, I am mixing the tripe with meats the cats aren't enthusiastic about (like turkey).  As long as I have tripe, I don't need other enticements. Not only do they love the stuff, It provides a natural probiotic.  

This link gives a good overview of the benefits (they are talking about dogs, but everything they say would apply to cats also)  

http://www.aplaceforpaws.com/faqs/products/what-is-tripe-and-why-should-i-feed-it-to-my-dog.html

The dog I fed tripe was a Frenchie, who had continual problems with digestion.  He had diarrhea a lot, and threw up constantly.  Food would just kind of sit in his stomach, and not move through his system the way it should.  After a couple of years of thousands of dollars, and scopes, and being treated for multiple possibilities.....it just didn't get better.  I did a bunch of research, and switched him to a raw diet (much to the consternation of the breeders and the vets).  I fed him ground mixes mixed with about 50% raw green tripe.  He stopped throwing up, put on weight, and became healthy and happy.  

 

[otto]

Maybe try her with some green tripe?   You could try the canned first.....2 or 3 companies make it.  Solid Gold is usually the most available.  It is a natural probiotic, has the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio, provides digestive enzymes....and my cats will knock me down to get to it.  The tripe has been instrumental in getting my picky boy to eat.  He was also the one who always had pudding poop....which has gone away unless he manages to sneak some people food.  

Green Tripe is considered meat, so you can feed it as a whole meal, or mix with other proteins.  I knew about tripe because I had a dog with digestive issues in the past, and used it for him.  I hadn't really thought about feeding it to the cats, but ordered a 2 lb container of beef mixed with tripe in my last order.....the cats went crazy for it.  Now, I am mixing the tripe with meats the cats aren't enthusiastic about (like turkey).  As long as I have tripe, I don't need other enticements. Not only do they love the stuff, It provides a natural probiotic.  

This link gives a good overview of the benefits (they are talking about dogs, but everything they say would apply to cats also)  

http://www.aplaceforpaws.com/faqs/products/what-is-tripe-and-why-should-i-feed-it-to-my-dog.html

The dog I fed tripe was a Frenchie, who had continual problems with digestion.  He had diarrhea a lot, and threw up constantly.  Food would just kind of sit in his stomach, and not move through his system the way it should.  After a couple of years of thousands of dollars, and scopes, and being treated for multiple possibilities.....it just didn't get better.  I did a bunch of research, and switched him to a raw diet (much to the consternation of the breeders and the vets).  I fed him ground mixes mixed with about 50% raw green tripe.  He stopped throwing up, put on weight, and became healthy and happy.  

Thanks for the great info on tripe. I am interested that it is balanced all on it's own for phosphorous/calcium? I want to make sure I understand that right, as I supplement with egg shell calcium. So when I feed a tripe meal I would not use the calcium supplement?

Do you have any opinion on using freeze dried tripe as opposed to frozen/fresh?

 

[ldg]

I don't know about freeze dried vs canned or fresh (frozen), but I do know it's balanced properly as is as re: Ca, so NO, you don't add any calcium supplement! It's a really nutritious food. :nod: I hope HarleyDiva has experience or knowledge of the FD vs fresh.

Just beware, it smells like cow poop. And the canned, as I understand it, is worse. I use frozen fresh, and it's not so bad. (I order mine from Hare Today).

 

[harleydiva]

I kind of discovered how much my cats like green tripe by accident.  After almost 3 months on raw, mine are getting a little more picky.  They love rabbit....will always eat it, but only get it every third or fourth meal.  They are getting a bit picky on the poultry, one in particular started walking away when I fed it.  What I am doing now, is mixing frozen ground green tripe with my chicken, turkey, or duck ground mixes at a ratio of about 8 pounds meat/bone/organ mix to 2 pounds of ground green tripe.  Since there is no bone in the tripe, it also serves the purpose of reducing the bone levels in the ground mixes.  

Since I use the bone-in mixes, I don't supplement calcium, but do use Alnutrin (the one for meat and bones). I add enough to cover the 8 pounds of meat mix.   I don't think you would need the calcium supplement for the tripe itself, but it will depend on whether you are mixing it with other meats.  (Someone more knowledgeable than me chime in here.....)  Meanwhile, I will shoot an email to Marta and see what she thinks.

My preference is "as close to nature as possible" (within my limits of some things I won't do...lol), so raw frozen is my first choice.  I have used canned in a pinch, but haven't tried freeze dried.  My cats like the canned, but like the frozen stuff best.  

 

[otto]

Do you have a link for canned tripe? Is it tripe cat food, as in processed? Or is it raw tripe in a can? Wait, that can't be right? I'm so confused! :lol3:

I've been hesitating over the freeze dried raw tripe that is sitting in my shopping cart at amazon. I do rely on freeze dried raw for certain meals in their rotation. I have really limited freezer space. I use two Stella&Chewy flavors, and I use freeze dried raw turkey hearts and FD raw duck hearts, they get those on gizzard days. I would be fine with adding FD tripe as a meal once a week, or canned, if the canned is not a cat food with a lot of junk added.

 

[harleydiva]

I bought Solid Gold canned green tripe.  It is usually in the dog food section at the pet food store.   I paid $2.48 for a dog food sized can.  It is processed to some extent, so I would only use it if I didn't have the fresh frozen product on hand.  Like right now.....have 8 pounds of tripe coming in the next delivery, but didn't order enough in the last delivery as I didn't know how much they would like it.  I would think the freeze dried would certainly be less processed, but just have never tried it myself.

 

[otto]

Thank you very much for your help! You too Laurie. I think I will try some of the Harvey's FD tripe and see how they like it. I will be prepared for the smell. :lol3:

 

[ldg]

The freeze dried probably doesn't smell too bad. I guess it might "smell up" if rehydrated. :dk: You'll have to keep us posted!!

 

[otto]

Perfect timing. I had pH strips waiting for something to round out a $25 order for free shipping and the tripe filled the spot just right. You can be sure I'll report how they like it.

I wonder...Mazy has trouble with beef and lamb muscle meat. Do you think she will have the same problem with beef tripe?

 

[nljnky]

Hi,
Well I bought some of the solid gold green tripe.
Chloe Love love loves it. It is one the grossest things I have ever seen and smelled :lol3:
But it did increase her appetite A LOT.
She had three meals with the tripe being about a third of the meal.
Last night she had very soft poo and a large volume of it. And at three this morning she sneezed.........Ill just say that I had to change my sheets.:jaw: gross, I know. Poor baby.

So, my question is, did I give her too much too soon, or maybe it was the processed form of it. I really don't like some of the stuff that is in there.
I just ordered frozen grind from HT so i have to wait til the next order for the fresh frozen tripe.

Maybe I should try the freeze dried in the mean time.:dk:

I also ordered just enough chicken this time to transition out of it.

I know there is an answer for my kittie.......just so hard to find it.

As always, thank you for the input, and all suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. :nod:

 

[otto]

Most likely her body just not used to it, or the other ingredients. The carrageenan, for example, has made the decision for me, as I won't feed my cats anything with carrageenan.

Are you using a probiotic?

I'm looking forward to trying the freeze dried tripe when it comes.