Help with two indoor cats fighting

[jinksandchew]

Hi There,

I've recently been asked the following and will recommend they see a professional feline behaviourist but wondered if anyone has any advice in the meantime?
I'm in need of serious help with my two cats. I've had my first cat Lucky going on 4 years in January and she's about 6. We got our second cat Putch almost 1 year ago and she's about 7. Turns out the shelter withheld that Putch was not good with cats, dogs, or kids. She has some serious scarring on her back and the vet thinks it was probably from another animal, but we have no information about this. She was given up by her previous owner for biting. But it's been almost a year and they are still very aggressive with each other. We keep them separate switching them every day, one cat in bedroom with bathroom, litter box, etc and one in the rest of the house. I've been feeding them the Jackson Galaxy way with the baby gate rn, and giving them cbd for cats. PUtch is especially aggressive and will antagonise Lucky at which point Lucky will get defensive. Vet has checked them both out multiple times and there are no underlying health issues. I've recently started taking them on walks to release energy, but it's about to be winter here so this isn't a long term option for the next few months. I really want to make it work. And I've tried so many things, except honestly I'm scared to let them interact too much because Everytime they've been around each other for an extended period of time, it's resulted in a chase down, fur flying. They both have claws we do trim them in case they get to each other, I'm worried about them hurting each other, but maybe I'm being overly protective? I would also like the add that separately they are very sweet and Lucky is never aggressive with people and mochi is sometimes aggressive with people, but usually when she sees Lucky or when she wants food. Any advice is appreciated. In addition, I make an effort to play with them daily I do want to get a schedule down to play with them multiple times a day usually it's just once a day, but it is usually separate, The times I've played with them together, Putch will usually play and Lucky will stare and usually ends up running away. Sometimes when Lucy runs away Putch will chase her down. We have 5 cat trees total spread throughout the house, just got a new bigger one. They also have cardboard ones spread through the house as well and one of those window shelves that suction cup on up higher. All toys are always out on the floors. Putch is aggressive around Lucky and food and when she wants food or to play. Playtime and food time are different levels of aggression. She doesn't usually lash out outside of these times. And yes, I tried feliway multi cat plugins when we first got them, stop for awhile. Recently started up again feeling like I should give them another shot. One diffuser in the bedroom and one in the hall outside.Sorry for the long post

 

[jinksandchew]

Hi There,

I've recently been asked the following and will recommend they see a professional feline behaviourist but wondered if anyone has any advice in the meantime?
I'm in need of serious help with my two cats. I've had my first cat Lucky going on 4 years in January and she's about 6. We got our second cat Putch almost 1 year ago and she's about 7. Turns out the shelter withheld that Putch was not good with cats, dogs, or kids. She has some serious scarring on her back and the vet thinks it was probably from another animal, but we have no information about this. She was given up by her previous owner for biting. But it's been almost a year and they are still very aggressive with each other. We keep them separate switching them every day, one cat in bedroom with bathroom, litter box, etc and one in the rest of the house. I've been feeding them the Jackson Galaxy way with the baby gate rn, and giving them cbd for cats. PUtch is especially aggressive and will antagonise Lucky at which point Lucky will get defensive. Vet has checked them both out multiple times and there are no underlying health issues. I've recently started taking them on walks to release energy, but it's about to be winter here so this isn't a long term option for the next few months. I really want to make it work. And I've tried so many things, except honestly I'm scared to let them interact too much because Everytime they've been around each other for an extended period of time, it's resulted in a chase down, fur flying. They both have claws we do trim them in case they get to each other, I'm worried about them hurting each other, but maybe I'm being overly protective? I would also like the add that separately they are very sweet and Lucky is never aggressive with people and mochi is sometimes aggressive with people, but usually when she sees Lucky or when she wants food. Any advice is appreciated. In addition, I make an effort to play with them daily I do want to get a schedule down to play with them multiple times a day usually it's just once a day, but it is usually separate, The times I've played with them together, Putch will usually play and Lucky will stare and usually ends up running away. Sometimes when Lucy runs away Putch will chase her down. We have 5 cat trees total spread throughout the house, just got a new bigger one. They also have cardboard ones spread through the house as well and one of those window shelves that suction cup on up higher. All toys are always out on the floors. Putch is aggressive around Lucky and food and when she wants food or to play. Playtime and food time are different levels of aggression. She doesn't usually lash out outside of these times. And yes, I tried feliway multi cat plugins when we first got them, stop for awhile. Recently started up again feeling like I should give them another shot. One diffuser in the bedroom and one in the hall outside.Sorry for the long post

additional info -

They have done carrier training for a long time, and started out only in carriers, but eventually let them roam free after weeks of this. This is when they would try playing with them together and they would end up fighting. It would sometimes go for about an hour but would almost always end in a fight. Also giving treats throughout when they were being good.

 

[jinksandchew]

additional info -

They have done carrier training for a long time, and started out only in carriers, but eventually let them roam free after weeks of this. This is when they would try playing with them together and they would end up fighting. It would sometimes go for about an hour but would almost always end in a fight. Also giving treats throughout when they were being good.

More update: I forgot to say that we had them on fluoextine from about March to September, I didn't see much improvement and I was worried about long term affects so I worked with the vet to wean them off and then started the cbd. The cbd definitely shows more improve than the fluoextine did. Especially for Lucky, she's had a shift after using the cbd, she has been less aggressive to start and only shows defensive behavior. I do notice that putch. I feed them 3 times, the first time she gets cbd, when I get home from work. And usually the 2 and 3 feeding go much better. I have been trying to give it to her in the morning as well, I have occasionally forgotten when I'm running late for work. I've talked to different vets and they all say different things lol. Really idk how much we should be letting them "work it out". I've had mixed advise, some people say it's the only way and some people say they will try to kill each other. I understand there's not a clear cut solution, but I would appreciate any advice you can give me! I do know that I should play with them more and the walking is my attempt to get more energy out, but still I feel like there has to be something else I'm missing.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I would think this is all because of Putch's mostly unknown background and that has caused her to be a very high-strung, high-anxiety cat. The only other thought that came to mind is perhaps Putch has arthritis brought on by whatever she went through before you got her, and that is causing some level of pain all the time. That would explain a lot if that were the case. When the vet has previously checked her over, did they look for arthritis - via x-rays? I would rule that out first, just in case. CBD might help a bit, but she might actually need to be on pain meds, possibly even some arthritic treatments like glucosamine/chondroitin/green lipped mussels.

I don't think with fur flying the idea of "letting them work it out" is a good idea. The only other drastic thing you could do is to start the introduction process all over again from Step 1 and move as slow as Putch needs.

You could also consider a catio that would allow them, especially Putch, some extra exercise without having to actually walk her in the cold weather. The catio would be a safe, confined environment that still would allow some outdoor time, but not likely as cold as being directly out in the elements. You could even add cat trees and different levels inside the catio. Even if it were arthritis, like humans exercise is a good thing - but would probably work better with paid meds.

 

[ArtNJ]

I think both views are true. Since you have been at this so long, perhaps the only way for them to progress is if they can work it out on their own. And yet, it is also true that cats that actually full on fight rarely work things out on their own. You could give them time to see what happens, but would have to check for wounds after every encounter and stop at the first sign of wounds.

Hate to say it, but you might be nearing the point where separate lives is necessary. Either in your house, or via re-adoption.

 

[jinksandchew]

I've asked about the arthritis - thank you so much. completely agree, but when you introduction process again, the cats are currently separated and they have tried everything? Introduction being in cages, they have done that? Or are you saying like this again? They are soooo desperate to keep both and want to try all.

 

[ArtNJ]

The idea behind a reintroduction is that they forget they beat the crap out of each other and caused each other pain. Start from a clean slate. Obviously, that doesn't help if one of them is just mean, psychotic, or any of the dozen other reasons why you might have problems, but at least it wipes the slate clean of any stuff that went wrong between the two of them.

Its something to try. I find of assumed you had tried one, given that you've been at this a year, so I didnt mention it in my first post. But FeebysOwner is right, may as well. You don't have to give it another year, obviously. But maybe do a couple of weeks of isolation with no contact, followed by limited contact through baby gates or a cracked door for a week, and then put em together and see what happens.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Personally, I am not a fan of cages, if there is another way to separate them. Here are the TCS articles on introductions to see the steps to go through, should that help in devising a 'do-over' plan. I also included one about why cats attack, just in case...
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Why Do Cats Attack?

 

[jinksandchew]

I've asked about the arthritis - thank you so much. completely agree, but when you introduction process again, the cats are currently separated and they have tried everything? Introduction being in cages, they have done that? Or are you saying like this again? They are soooo desperate to keep both and want to try all. She sent this photo. I know we not vets but this looks o.k. she is going to check the vets.

 

[ArtNJ]

I agree with FeebysOwner on the cage point too. A lot of people have used them in the introduction process, but it just seems to me that its likely to be more stressful than the other methods. I think that especially for cats that have been having such problems, double-stacked baby gates, or a door cracked with door jambs, is a better way to do the final stages of an introduction process.

If you are able to reset the deck and erase memories of fighting with a 2 week separation, you don't want to accidentally cause any stress when they first see each other. Thats my thinking.

Some people have a playpen or something that the cat doesn't mind going in. That would be different, but absent that, I'd go with one of the other methods.

 

[jinksandchew]

Personally, I am not a fan of cages, if there is another way to separate them. Here are the TCS articles on introductions to see the steps to go through, should that help in devising a 'do-over' plan. I also included one about why cats attack, just in case...
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Why Do Cats Attack?

theyd just tried to introduce with cages.

 

[jinksandchew]

View attachment 309485

 

[jinksandchew]

these are from where the scares are. The owner is going to get her x-ray to rule that out.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Pretty cat! So sorry about the scarring. But, pics don't necessarily give a clue about arthritis and where it might be located - unless it is horrendously bad. Good for the owner on the x-rays!!! I hate to see that be the case, but it sure would be something that can be treated to see if it helps any.

No cages this time for re-introductions - please tell the owner. This is especially true with a 'do-over'.

 

[jinksandchew]

Pretty cat! So sorry about the scarring. But, pics don't necessarily give a clue about arthritis and where it might be located - unless it is horrendously bad. Good for the owner on the x-rays!!! I hate to see that be the case, but it sure would be something that can be treated to see if it helps any.

No cages this time for re-introductions - please tell the owner. This is especially true with a 'do-over'.

agree and will do re: no cages

 

[FeebysOwner]

Please do keep us posted, will you?

 

[jinksandchew]

Please do keep us posted, will you?

definatley will do. bless them they are trying so hard to keep the cats and have done everything. I want to give them one more chance and i think the re introducing is their last chance. unless anyone has any ideas. x

 

[Twylasmom]

Stacked baby gates are kind of a pain, but very helpful in the sight desensitization phase. We are working on limited full house interaction but I still use gates when one of them is contained.

 

[MoonstoneWolf]

I wish Jackson Galaxy would address what to do when this happens to feral cats that I want to adopt.

 

[jinksandchew]

Stacked baby gates are kind of a pain, but very helpful in the sight desensitization phase. We are working on limited full house interaction but I still use gates when one of them is contained.

yes . - this seems to working. thank you