Help with recipe?

hersheys mom

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
187
Purraise
15
Location
Graham, WA
I am trying to come up with a ground food recipe for my feral who inhales RAD so fast I want to give her a straw. RAD is very expensive for me ( I have 2 kitties, one feral Burmese who loves raw, and a Tortie who hates it and prefers junky Friskies canned. Both were adopted. The Burmese escaped the breeders and the Tortie, well, I have a feeling she was adopted and returned several times for behavioral problems. A lot of love and patience got rid of the bad behavior, but she must have eaten store food most of her 3 years because she loves her carbs and grains. Tried her on raw and she screamed her head off. I guess I will have to do the add a little at a time thing. Anyway, I have put together a recipe based on using a whole store bought chicken and some other protiens, but want to make sure I haven't left anything out and have the right ratios. Please help!

Raw Cat Food Diet Recipe Made WITH Bones

4.4 pounds raw muscle meat with bones (light and dark meat from chicken or turkey and remove20 to 25 percent of the bone. Will try lamb and pork in addition to poultry)

14 oz raw heart (chicken heart; if no heart is available, substitute with 4000 mg Taurine
)

7 oz raw chicken liver (don't use beef liver; if Ican't find appropriate liver,  substitute 40,000 IU of Vitamin A and 1600 IU of Vitamin D)

NOTE: If you cannot find the heart or liver and decide to substitute with the Taurine/Vitamin A and D, then remember to REPLACE the missing amount of organ meat with the equivalent amount of muscle meat. In other words, if you cannot find heart, you add another 400 grams of the meat/bones. If you can't find the liver, add another 200 grams of meat/bone.

16 oz [2 cups] water

4 raw egg yolks ***

4 capsules raw glandular supplement, such as, for example, multigland supplement by Immoplex. - What is this stuff?


200 mg Vitamin B-50 complex  (i.e., four capsules of B-50)

1.5 tsp. Lite salt (with iodine)

Vitamin E- though I don't know how much, and do I add before or after freezing?

NOTE: If I will not be using the food immediately and freezing for more than a week or two, I need to toss in 4000 mg of additional Taurine to make up for what may get lost during storage. It is also not a bad idea to sprinkle extra Taurine from a capsule on the food as you're serving it two or three times a week, just to be certain your cat is getting plenty of this critical amino acid.

1. Remove about half of the skin from the muscle meat. Chunk up (i.e., cut) as much of the muscle meat (minus most of the skin if using chicken or turkey, but leave skin on if using rabbit) as you can stand into bite-sized (nickel-sized, approximately) pieces. Save the chunked meat for later. Do not grind it. In my case, I will be grinding it as my feral will not eat chunks, she likes her finely ground - goes through the straw easier.

2. Grind the raw liver, any skin, raw meaty bones, and raw heart. Once ground, stir this meat/bone mixture well and return to refrigerator.

3. Fill a bowl with 2 cups of water and whisk everything (non-meat). If you had to replace liver with Vitamin A/D or replace heart with Taurine, add the substitutes now. Finally, put the three mixtures together--the "supplement slurry" that you have just mixed, the ground up meat/bone/organs, and the chunks of meat that you cut up by hand. Portion into containers and freeze.

Don't overfill the containers. The food expands when frozen and you don't want lids popping off. Thaw as you go. The food shouldn't be left thawed in the refrigerator more than 48 hours before serving. To serve, portion into a 'zipper baggie' and warm under hot water in the sink. NEVER microwave the food. Cats like their food at something approximating "mouse body temperature."

*Every day, sprinke a capsul of Krill oil on to the cats' food.

***If you don't want to waste the egg whites, poach them, grind them, and throw them in with the food.  A nice phosphorus-free source of protein. 

Anything else? Thank you all!

Lei Ann
 

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
843
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
I know Dr. Pierson includes the amount of vitamin E in her recipe, though I don't know if the amounts match the batch you're putting together? :dk:

...and even though Dr. Pierson doesn't include the glandular, I like the idea of using it if you can afford to. We're not feeding all the organs or the brain when we make homemade food, and those have nutritional value.
 
Last edited:

mschauer

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
6,753
Purraise
2,338
Location
Houston, Tx
It looks like you are using the recipe at catnutrition.org. I think that is one of the more popular recipes but her bone recommendation seems contradictory to me. She says:
chicken thighs and drumsticks or, better, a whole carcass of rabbit or chicken amounting to 2 kg; if you don't use a whole carcass, opt for dark meat like thighs and drumsticks from chicken or turkey and remove/don't use 20 to 25 percent of the bone; if using whole rabbit, which has a higher bone-to-meat ratio than chicken, dilute the extra bone by adding another 20 to 25 percent of plain muscle meat and skin and fat from rabbit, chicken, or turkey)
So looking at using chicken parts she says you can use either of the following:

 whole chicken carcass 

 chicken drumstick with bone removed form 25% 

 chicken thigh with bone removed from 25% 

But, using information from the USDA database the average bone content of those is :

whole chicken carcass :  total - 32 % bone

chicken drumstick (27% bone) with bone removed form 25% :  total - 20% bone

chicken thigh (15% bone) with bone removed from 25% :  total - 11 % bone

There's a huge difference in the amount of bone with each of those options. IMO only the chicken thigh with bone removed from 25% is an appropriate choice.

BTW, this brings up a major reason why I don't use whole bone in my recipes. The bone content is just way too iffy. 

But, if you are going to use whole bone I strongly suggest using Dr. Pierson's recipe at http://catinfo.org. She recommends using chicken thighs with bone removed from 25%.

In this thread: Questions about raw transition  I showed how to use chicken backs with Dr. Pierson's recipe. I didn't realize it then but know now that the poster actually had started with the catnutrition.org recipe and not the catinfo.org recipe as she said. The resulting recipe using chicken backs is:

4.4 lbs chicken backs

13 lbs  boneless meat/skin

1.5 lbs liver

12 eggs

29000 mg fish oil

2320 IU vit E

11600 mg taurine

290 mg B-complex

4 tsp lite iodized salt

Add as much water as needed for the desired consistency and round the supplements up to whatever size capsules are used.

Dr. P only uses chicken thighs or rabbit but IMO the 13 lbs of boneless meat in my chicken back version could be other meats like pork, beef, turkey, etc. And you can also substitute heart, gizzard and kidney for some of that 13 lbs of boneless meat.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

hersheys mom

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
187
Purraise
15
Location
Graham, WA
In this thread: Questions about raw transition  I showed how to use chicken backs with Dr. Pierson's recipe. I didn't realize it then but know now that the poster actually had started with the catnutrition.org recipe and not the catinfo.org recipe as she said. The resulting recipe using chicken backs is:

4.4 lbs chicken backs

13 lbs  boneless meat/skin

1.5 lbs liver

12 eggs

29000 mg fish oil

2320 IU vit E

11600 mg taurine

290 mg B-complex

4 tsp lite iodized salt

Add as much water as needed for the desired consistency and round the supplements up to whatever size capsules are used.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have.
Is she feeding an army? 13 lbs of meat? My freezer won't hold that much! Will check into the sites you recommended, and downsize the amounts. Thanks!
 

mschauer

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
6,753
Purraise
2,338
Location
Houston, Tx


She had already made a recipe using chicken backs instead of the chicken thighs the recipe called for and I was showing her what needed to be added to the recipe as she made it for it to be nutritionally balanced.

BTW, for my 4 cats I normally make about 60 lbs of food at a time. Lasts about 6 weeks. 
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

hersheys mom

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
187
Purraise
15
Location
Graham, WA
Does anyone have a simple recipe that a novice can follow using a whole chicken or chicken thighs that does not require a large freezer? I have just my regular freezer that came with my refrigerator and have to share it with the cats. The recipies mentioned are for way too much food, and the bone content thing is very confusing. Can someone simplify this for me?
 

Willowy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
31,905
Purraise
28,317
Location
South Dakota
The catinfo recipe is probably the easiest. You do have a grinder, right? You can half or quarter the recipe if the whole batch is too much.
 

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
843
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
The recipes that start with the 4.4 pounds should be small batches, and you can scale everything down if you want to start even smaller - just make half, so divide everything by 2. :dk:

Don't forget - you're only feeding 1-2 cats. So once you've made the food, you'll be putting it in baggies, which you can smoosh flat (dethaw quicker that way too). You can either make meal-sized baggies of food, or food-for-the-day sized frozen packages. But 4.5 pounds of ground food takes up less freezer space than 4.5 pounds of packaged chicken or turkey if you're not using containers to freeze them that are much larger than the amount of food going in them.

And yes, the bone content is confusing. That's why some people opt to use an alternate form of calcium. Ground eggshells are quite economic, and easy to measure precisely.

For instance, if you use this eggshell powder: http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/shop_online.html (Scroll down to the last item in the list), it has instructions:

Serving size: 1 leveled 5cc scoop (6.1g)
Servings per container: 34
Directions for use: Mix 1 leveled 5cc blue scoop with 2.4 lb of meat.

The usual recommendation found is 1/2 level teaspoon per pound of meat.

So you can either use Dr. Pierson's recipe, http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood#Making Cat Food - Quick Summary and substitute eggshell powder for bone (just add meat to make up the difference in weight, so the supplement amounts work out correctly), or use the feline-nutrition.org recipe: http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers (though I'd omit the psyllium husk powder if I were making it).

The other option is use the bone, and adjust each batch based on kitty's poop. Soft = too little bone; hard & dry = too much bone.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10

hersheys mom

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
187
Purraise
15
Location
Graham, WA
The usual recommendation found is 1/2 level teaspoon per pound of meat.
So you can either use Dr. Pierson's recipe, http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood#Making Cat Food - Quick Summary and substitute eggshell powder for bone (just add meat to make up the difference in weight, so the supplement amounts work out correctly), or use the feline-nutrition.org recipe: http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers (though I'd omit the psyllium husk powder if I were making it).
The other option is use the bone, and adjust each batch based on kitty's poop. Soft = too little bone; hard & dry = too much bone.
Thank you Laurie, that is SO much simplier. I am using egg shells from our whole foods market - mom is saving them for me because I don't eat eggs (nothing against them, just don't like them). Tried larger chunks of chicken on HR. She ate half and left the rest for later - she didn't want to eat them at first - she kept looking at me to cut them up. I know she loves her food like slop, but she needs to do some chewing! She's a year old and her teeth are fine, the holes in my hands and arms are living proof of that!

Hugs,

Lei Ann
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11

hersheys mom

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
187
Purraise
15
Location
Graham, WA
The catinfo recipe is probably the easiest. You do have a grinder, right? You can half or quarter the recipe if the whole batch is too much.
No, no grinder yet. Looking at the affordable options, will probably have one by the end of the year. Hershey Rose is not fond of larger chunks, but I wanted to see if I could get her to eat some before I decided which setting to grind on.

Hugs,

Lei Ann
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12

hersheys mom

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
187
Purraise
15
Location
Graham, WA
In this thread: Questions about raw transition  I showed how to use chicken backs with Dr. Pierson's recipe. I didn't realize it then but know now that the poster actually had started with the catnutrition.org recipe and not the catinfo.org recipe as she said. The resulting recipe using chicken backs is:

4.4 lbs chicken backs

13 lbs  boneless meat/skin

1.5 lbs liver

12 eggs

29000 mg fish oil

2320 IU vit E

11600 mg taurine

290 mg B-complex

4 tsp lite iodized salt

Add as much water as needed for the desired consistency and round the supplements up to whatever size capsules are used.

Dr. P only uses chicken thighs or rabbit but IMO the 13 lbs of boneless meat in my chicken back version could be other meats like pork, beef, turkey, etc. And you can also substitute heart, gizzard and kidney for some of that 13 lbs of boneless meat.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have.
If I can't get the chicken backs, how much egg shell should I substitute? Chicken liver may be a hard one also, but I will call the Pet Pantry and see if they sell any. I heard krill or salmon oil is good, which do you think is better? The vitamins should not be a problem, Pet Pantry should have taurine, grocery store has the iodized salt, not sure if I saw lite or not, but I know they have regular. If no lite, should I lower the amount of regular iodized salt? I would love to try going boneless, my grinder I have was not intended for bone, but will get a new grinder if need be. Wish I could get her to eat chunky, right now have gotten her up to small chunks, more like minced. I am ready to start making my own food, RAD is too expensive for me, and want to make something healthy and tasty for her. Also am trying to get my Tortie to eat raw, she has been on kibble and junkie food for 3 years before I adopted her, but she picks it out when I mix it with her canned food. Guess it's going to take awhile. Trying to get all the stuff together in the next day or two as I am running out of RAD! Any suggestions you can give me would be very helpful.
 

ldg

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
41,310
Purraise
843
Location
Fighting for ferals in NW NJ!
If I can't get the chicken backs, how much egg shell should I substitute?

Well, Dr. Pierson's recipe doesn't actually call for chicken backs. mschauer was helping someone fix a recipe they'd made incorrectly. Dr. Pierson's recipe calls for 3 pounds of bone-in chicken thigh, and has instruction on how to adjust the amount of bone. She also has directions for boneless, using bone meal: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood

If you're going to use eggshell, not grind bone or use (human grade) bone meal as directed by Dr. Pierson, the amount to use is 1/2 teaspoon per pound of meat, as posted above.
.

Chicken liver may be a hard one also, but I will call the Pet Pantry and see if they sell any.
.

I doubt the pet store sells liver - the supermarket does. I haven't seen a supermarket that doesn't sell chicken liver. :dk: In fact - where you live, at any mexican market you ought to be able to find all kinds of interesting organs, if you ever go frankenprey.
.


I heard krill or salmon oil is good, which do you think is better?
Salmon oil is less expensive. Krill oil is "better," in that the phospholipids touted by those marketing krill oil DO seem to have important anti-inflammatory/healing properties above and beyond those in salmon oil. My Flowerbelle is missing most of the ball joints of her hips at this point, and the salmon oil didn't impact her mobility, but the krill oil has her running around like a kitten again. :nod: http://www.ehow.com/facts_5513028_difference-krill-oil-salmon-oil.html

Either way, it's important to use one of them, because they contain much-needed vitamin D, which is lacking in meat.
.


The vitamins should not be a problem, Pet Pantry should have taurine, grocery store has the iodized salt, not sure if I saw lite or not, but I know they have regular. If no lite, should I lower the amount of regular iodized salt?
No, don't lower the salt if they don't have light. Most recipes call for salt, and don't specify lite, and they recommend roughly the same amount.

Why pay more for vitamins that are marketed for "pets." ???? Almost anything with "pet" on the label costs much more than it needs to. Taurine is taurine. I buy my vitamins from Amazon. I stick to NOW brand when possible - very high quality. I use Solgar if NOW doesn't have it. They may even cost less at a health food store than at the pet store. :dk:
.


I would love to try going boneless, my grinder I have was not intended for bone, but will get a new grinder if need be.
My cats are eating whole prey model raw (frankenprey). I use both bones and boneless. Long term, it's best to use real bone, or at least incorporate some. There is a freeze dried bone product, healthier than the highly processed (human grade!) bone meal - but much more expensive. It's called NOW calcium hydroxyapatite. (NOW is the brand, and the only brand available in the U.S. that provides it with no other ingredients). It requires 3/4 of a capsule per OUNCE of meat. Because it's expensive, I rotate between it and eggshell - and I also provide ground with bone, and some bone-in meals.
 
Last edited:
Top