Manson is a year and a half, he's been sick since he was 2 months old; intermittent episodes of diarrhea, vomiting, severe bloating, fever and pain. He was diagnosed with IBD of autoimmune origin. Basically, any change in intestinal bacteria provokes a crisis, his immune system overreacts and he gets sick. Until about a month ago, he was treated with antibiotics and steroids every time he got sick, and he responded well to them, but a month ago he started not responding so well to medication, he was hospitalized a whole week, lost a ton of weight (he hasn't grown much, very small cat) and non regenerative anemia was detected. There seems to be an allergic component to his illness, so we have been trying with all types of different proteins (commercial and home cooked), none of them have worked... this time the vet prescribed a 100% fish diet. Thing is that, since he's anemic, he needs extra nutrients and since he''s intestine is sick fiber would help. I tried Metamucil, he didn't touch the food, and I've heard that pumpkin is a good source of fiber, but in my country pumpkin is very hard to get. So, any ideas on what I could mix with the fish for fiber and extra nutrition? of course I would consult any new thing I give him with the vet, but he seems pretty desperate too so he's accepting my suggestions
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Help with a diet for my IBD cat
- Thread starter vivi76
- Start Date
I'm so sorry, poor little boy! :rub:
Can you tell us a little more about what you're feeding him and how he's reacting to it? What fish are you using? Do you use it whole? Is he getting bone and organs from it? Is it cooked before giving it to him? Do you grind it up, or does he eat it whole?
Or are you using a fish cat food that has supplements in it?
Because fish.... needs a number of supplements. Taurine for one.
But we can't really provide any guidance until we know a little more about the diet he's currently being fed. And is it helping him? Does he still have diarrhea?
I'm also wondering why the vet doesn't have him on any kind of probiotics if his gut bacteria is so out of whack. Have you tried any?
I don't know where you're located, but there's a product available in Europe called Entero-chronic. I know it contains at least S. boulardii, which helps many with IBD (kitties and people alike). This product is for cats, and it's available online and without a prescription. We have a member in Germany who adopted a kitten with IBD that had to be restricted to a low-fat, single-protein diet. It took 3 months for the Enter-chronic and low-fat diet to work, but her kitty, Mogli, is doing much better now!
Can you tell us a little more about what you're feeding him and how he's reacting to it? What fish are you using? Do you use it whole? Is he getting bone and organs from it? Is it cooked before giving it to him? Do you grind it up, or does he eat it whole?
Or are you using a fish cat food that has supplements in it?
Because fish.... needs a number of supplements. Taurine for one.
But we can't really provide any guidance until we know a little more about the diet he's currently being fed. And is it helping him? Does he still have diarrhea?
I'm also wondering why the vet doesn't have him on any kind of probiotics if his gut bacteria is so out of whack. Have you tried any?
I don't know where you're located, but there's a product available in Europe called Entero-chronic. I know it contains at least S. boulardii, which helps many with IBD (kitties and people alike). This product is for cats, and it's available online and without a prescription. We have a member in Germany who adopted a kitten with IBD that had to be restricted to a low-fat, single-protein diet. It took 3 months for the Enter-chronic and low-fat diet to work, but her kitty, Mogli, is doing much better now!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #3
Thank you for your reply LDG 
We just got started yesterday! when he got out of the hospital he didn't want to eat, so for 2 days I was feeding him PediaSure, after that he wanted a little bit of chicken, I was scared to death but he had to eat, then I started mixing the chicken with some tuna juice and just yesterday I made the switch to just tuna, but I know that's not enough. Vet said no processed food, so I can't give him cat food
He doesn't have diarrhea now, it's not constant, and when I see diarrhea I know he's going to get really sick. It's actually mucus, a lot of mucus and tenesmus, his large intestine is a mess
when he's not sick he's perfectly normal, but he's always gassy
About the vet and the probiotics... I'm not very happy with this vet, but he has been the only one able to control him, he has an "holistic" approach and I feel that he's not doing enough, but, I have been to a lot of vets, they have done a lot of testing (so far 3 ultrasounds, lots of blood work, lots of fecal, testing, etc) and even with all that they haven't been able to make him better. They also want to do a biopsy and I don't want to... he's very small and not well enough for surgery, and I'm also sure that they wouldn't find anything new. So I'm sticking to this vet who at least knows how to control him, but I'm not happy with the fact that he hasn't prescribed anything for home, no probiotics, no antibiotics, nothing I would gladly try probiotics if you can recommend some, I'm in Mexico, I'll check which ones are available here
We just got started yesterday! when he got out of the hospital he didn't want to eat, so for 2 days I was feeding him PediaSure, after that he wanted a little bit of chicken, I was scared to death but he had to eat, then I started mixing the chicken with some tuna juice and just yesterday I made the switch to just tuna, but I know that's not enough. Vet said no processed food, so I can't give him cat food
He doesn't have diarrhea now, it's not constant, and when I see diarrhea I know he's going to get really sick. It's actually mucus, a lot of mucus and tenesmus, his large intestine is a mess
when he's not sick he's perfectly normal, but he's always gassy About the vet and the probiotics... I'm not very happy with this vet, but he has been the only one able to control him, he has an "holistic" approach and I feel that he's not doing enough, but, I have been to a lot of vets, they have done a lot of testing (so far 3 ultrasounds, lots of blood work, lots of fecal, testing, etc) and even with all that they haven't been able to make him better. They also want to do a biopsy and I don't want to... he's very small and not well enough for surgery, and I'm also sure that they wouldn't find anything new. So I'm sticking to this vet who at least knows how to control him, but I'm not happy with the fact that he hasn't prescribed anything for home, no probiotics, no antibiotics, nothing
I would gladly try probiotics if you can recommend some, I'm in Mexico, I'll check which ones are available here
Yes, http://www.ibdkitties.net is very helpful.
For the probiotic, look for a human supplement with L. acidophilus. It's best if it's an a capsule format so you can sprinkle it on your cat's food. Other strains that are helpful are L. rhamnosus and Bifidobacterium. Many probiotics include some of all of these. My holistic vet had us give our cat 10 billion CFU (colony forming units) 2x a day. But with IBD kitties, it is best to start everything small, and work up slowly to the full dose.
Another probiotic I use is S. boulardii (Saccharomyces boulardii). The total dose is 5 billion CFU (or 250mg), split into 2 doses. The problem with this one is that depending on the supplement, sometimes it is not palatable, and you have to get tricky about getting it INTO your kitty. Some can be sprinkled on food - others can be hidden in food - and sometimes you just have to pill your kitty with it.
I would recommend using both. The S. boulardii may help stop the diarrhea on its own (again, start small and work up to the full dose). The acidophilus may also help with that, but it will help improve his B-12 absorption.
Many with IBD kitties recommend B-12 shots (methylcobalamin). You might want to talk to your vet about this. You will find more information on that in the IBDkitties.net website. :nod:
If you are going to feed him only canned fish.... I would try it only for a few weeks, because fish is just not a good long term food for a cat. Are you using canned tuna? It will likely be very high in sodium. And one supplement I would add immediately is taurine. Taurine is essential to cats. I would give him 250mg daily. Again, this can be mixed in or sprinkled on the food, most cats just eat it as it is not bitter.
If the tuna is boneless, then you will need to add calcium. In fact, it may be easier to use boneless tuna and add the right amount of calcium rather than guessing at how much he's getting. Calcium is ESSENTIAL. You can easily provide the right amount of calcium by using eggshells. If your family eats eggs, just rinse the shells and dry them completely. Then powder them, using either a clean spice or coffee grinder, or a pestle and mortar. Grind them as finely as possible. It takes 1/8 of a teaspoon to balance 4 ounces of boneless meat. As most cats eat 1 or 2 ounces at a meal, it can be hard to measure, but again, if you dump out 1/4 teaspoon, and use a card of some type to divide it into half; divide that half into half, etc. (four times total), and that is how much eggshell powder is needed to balance one ounce of meat. Again, this can just be sprinkled on or mixed into the food, it is not bitter and most cats don't even notice it is there.
He needs more nutrients than that, but those are the *most* essential while you figure out what to do. :heart2:
Do you have access to rabbit there? It is a novel protein for cats, and is far more suited to their biology than fish. Fish is actually an allergy trigger for many cats, so I'm not sure this is the best course of action for your kitty, who is already suffering from inflammation.
But I would start with the L. acidophilus and the S. boulardii supplements. I'd talk to the vet about B-12 shots. And I'd add at least the eggshell powder and taurine to the plain fish you're using.
Edited to add: many kitties suffering from IBD actually do very well on a non-processed diet. But it needs to be properly balanced. If you have access to rabbit, we can help you properly balance his diet, whether fed raw or whether you want to cook it. I think this would be a superior choice to fish.
For the probiotic, look for a human supplement with L. acidophilus. It's best if it's an a capsule format so you can sprinkle it on your cat's food. Other strains that are helpful are L. rhamnosus and Bifidobacterium. Many probiotics include some of all of these. My holistic vet had us give our cat 10 billion CFU (colony forming units) 2x a day. But with IBD kitties, it is best to start everything small, and work up slowly to the full dose.
Another probiotic I use is S. boulardii (Saccharomyces boulardii). The total dose is 5 billion CFU (or 250mg), split into 2 doses. The problem with this one is that depending on the supplement, sometimes it is not palatable, and you have to get tricky about getting it INTO your kitty. Some can be sprinkled on food - others can be hidden in food - and sometimes you just have to pill your kitty with it.
I would recommend using both. The S. boulardii may help stop the diarrhea on its own (again, start small and work up to the full dose). The acidophilus may also help with that, but it will help improve his B-12 absorption.
Many with IBD kitties recommend B-12 shots (methylcobalamin). You might want to talk to your vet about this. You will find more information on that in the IBDkitties.net website. :nod:
If you are going to feed him only canned fish.... I would try it only for a few weeks, because fish is just not a good long term food for a cat. Are you using canned tuna? It will likely be very high in sodium. And one supplement I would add immediately is taurine. Taurine is essential to cats. I would give him 250mg daily. Again, this can be mixed in or sprinkled on the food, most cats just eat it as it is not bitter.
If the tuna is boneless, then you will need to add calcium. In fact, it may be easier to use boneless tuna and add the right amount of calcium rather than guessing at how much he's getting. Calcium is ESSENTIAL. You can easily provide the right amount of calcium by using eggshells. If your family eats eggs, just rinse the shells and dry them completely. Then powder them, using either a clean spice or coffee grinder, or a pestle and mortar. Grind them as finely as possible. It takes 1/8 of a teaspoon to balance 4 ounces of boneless meat. As most cats eat 1 or 2 ounces at a meal, it can be hard to measure, but again, if you dump out 1/4 teaspoon, and use a card of some type to divide it into half; divide that half into half, etc. (four times total), and that is how much eggshell powder is needed to balance one ounce of meat. Again, this can just be sprinkled on or mixed into the food, it is not bitter and most cats don't even notice it is there.
He needs more nutrients than that, but those are the *most* essential while you figure out what to do. :heart2:
Do you have access to rabbit there? It is a novel protein for cats, and is far more suited to their biology than fish. Fish is actually an allergy trigger for many cats, so I'm not sure this is the best course of action for your kitty, who is already suffering from inflammation.
But I would start with the L. acidophilus and the S. boulardii supplements. I'd talk to the vet about B-12 shots. And I'd add at least the eggshell powder and taurine to the plain fish you're using.
Edited to add: many kitties suffering from IBD actually do very well on a non-processed diet. But it needs to be properly balanced. If you have access to rabbit, we can help you properly balance his diet, whether fed raw or whether you want to cook it. I think this would be a superior choice to fish.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #6
Thank you so much!!! IBDKitties is a great site!! I'm already learning new things!!
From what I've seen, Manson's main problem is colon irritation and lack of motility. Seems that since his intestine is infiltrated (hardened) he can't digest food well, he gets bloated, his intestine gets filled with liquid and gass (he's almost always gassy actually) and he throws up undigested food and bile and his stools are filled with mucus (sorry for being so graphic). His pancreas is also affected from all of this. So, if you ask me, the main purpose of the diet would be to help his colon with irritation and to give him food that he can digest easily, I honestly don't think he has an allergy, but of course, I'm not a vet. He has long hair, so hairballs are also an issue, I've seen a lot of hair in his stool; IBD kitties says that a raw egg yolk once or twice a week can help with this, so I will try that
I can get rabbit What's behind of the 100% fish diet is the supposition that he's allergic to chicken and turkey proteins, but we've never tried rabbit. I am using canned fish, and I know that it's not healthy because of the sodium, but it's been so hard to make him eat again! I tried salmon, sardines, mackerel and canned fish ws the only thing he wanted. I will start with the egg shells and taurine right away! I have an appointment with a new vet in a couple of hours (the clinic is really far, so I hope she's good) and I will see if I can get the pro biotics there, I've heard about Benebac, do you think those will work?
From what I've seen, Manson's main problem is colon irritation and lack of motility. Seems that since his intestine is infiltrated (hardened) he can't digest food well, he gets bloated, his intestine gets filled with liquid and gass (he's almost always gassy actually) and he throws up undigested food and bile and his stools are filled with mucus (sorry for being so graphic). His pancreas is also affected from all of this. So, if you ask me, the main purpose of the diet would be to help his colon with irritation and to give him food that he can digest easily, I honestly don't think he has an allergy, but of course, I'm not a vet. He has long hair, so hairballs are also an issue, I've seen a lot of hair in his stool; IBD kitties says that a raw egg yolk once or twice a week can help with this, so I will try that
I can get rabbit
What's behind of the 100% fish diet is the supposition that he's allergic to chicken and turkey proteins, but we've never tried rabbit. I am using canned fish, and I know that it's not healthy because of the sodium, but it's been so hard to make him eat again! I tried salmon, sardines, mackerel and canned fish ws the only thing he wanted. I will start with the egg shells and taurine right away! I have an appointment with a new vet in a couple of hours (the clinic is really far, so I hope she's good) and I will see if I can get the pro biotics there, I've heard about Benebac, do you think those will work?
Yes, many people have had success with Benebac. :nod:
As to the egg yolk, please do start small. In fact, you may want to balance each egg yolk with 1/32 teaspoon of eggshell powder. Egg yolk has SO many things that are good for him, but it is high in phosphorus, which can make IBD kitties runny - and he already has that problem. Balancing it with the calcium in the eggshell will help prevent that. One large egg yolk takes about 1/32 teaspoon of eggshell powder to balance the phosphorus in it with the proper amount of calcium.
...But it has vitamin D, healthy omega 3s, the choline.... so many things that will help him nutritionally! But do start small. I'd give him maybe 1/4 egg yolk at first. Some kitties don't like it because it's "sticky," so you may need to add a little water to it. It can also be cooked, that won't detract from the benefits of it, if he prefers it that way.
Re: the rabbit. You will need the organs. Liver is the source of vitamin A, and is an important part of the diet. Most use chicken liver, but with his apparent intolerance to chicken, you'll want to use the rabbit organs. Again, we'll be able to help you figure out the right proportions of everything and how to properly balance it with supplements.
As to the egg yolk, please do start small. In fact, you may want to balance each egg yolk with 1/32 teaspoon of eggshell powder. Egg yolk has SO many things that are good for him, but it is high in phosphorus, which can make IBD kitties runny - and he already has that problem. Balancing it with the calcium in the eggshell will help prevent that. One large egg yolk takes about 1/32 teaspoon of eggshell powder to balance the phosphorus in it with the proper amount of calcium.
...But it has vitamin D, healthy omega 3s, the choline.... so many things that will help him nutritionally! But do start small. I'd give him maybe 1/4 egg yolk at first. Some kitties don't like it because it's "sticky," so you may need to add a little water to it. It can also be cooked, that won't detract from the benefits of it, if he prefers it that way.
Re: the rabbit. You will need the organs. Liver is the source of vitamin A, and is an important part of the diet. Most use chicken liver, but with his apparent intolerance to chicken, you'll want to use the rabbit organs. Again, we'll be able to help you figure out the right proportions of everything and how to properly balance it with supplements.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #8
It's going to be a bit hard to get the rabbit organs, I've seen the meat, never the organs; I'll ask in the market tomorrow, maybe they can get them specially for me. As for the new vet, she gave him a B12 shot (it's going to be 1 daily for a week, then once a week) prescribed a new antibiotic and said that Benebac was perfect, so I'm hopeful. Will write back when I get the rabbit liver... I had a pet rabbit wheen I was little so this is not going to be easy for me but If it'll make him better I'll try to forget about it
but If it'll make him better I'll try to forget about it
Awww.... 
Yes, a lot of people had rabbits as pets. :heart2:
Sounds like the trip was worth it!
We also have to drive quite a ways at times to see specialists for the kitties.
Did you talk to the new vet about his diet? Did she have any suggestions?
Because peaches08 is right. It turns out that many cats that are "allergic" to chicken in a dry or wet cat food don't seem to have the same problem when it's fed raw. It would seem there's something about the processing - or perhaps it's actually other ingredients in the food - that causes the problem.
There is also a member whose kitty suffered from IBD when he was first adopted - it was due to E. coli damage. And because of the damage to his colon, he could not handle a diet with the required amount of fat. He had to eat a low-fat diet, that wasn't easy to manage. So often, there's just no way to know what's actually causing the problem. A raw diet isn't always the answer - but for many IBD kitties, their first day on 100% raw, and they have no more diarrhea. Sometimes it just takes feeding them what they're meant to eat. :heart2:
But if he's never had other proteins, as peaches mentions, those could be worth a try too. The main thing is to find something he's not had before, and feed it to him in a more natural state. But if that's not possible, because liver is essential to a homemade diet (and kidney a plus, if you can find that), you may have to try chicken or beef liver, as those seem to be most common. I use rabbit liver and kidney when I have it, but for the most part, my cats get chicken liver and beef kidney. None of my kitties have IBD, but that's a pretty standard combination, even for IBD kitties. I know quite a few that had a "chicken intolerance" when eating canned food that are able to eat chicken liver when fed raw. :dk:
Just something to think about.
But I'm curious if the new vet had any diet suggestions?
Yes, a lot of people had rabbits as pets. :heart2:Sounds like the trip was worth it!
We also have to drive quite a ways at times to see specialists for the kitties.Did you talk to the new vet about his diet? Did she have any suggestions?
Because peaches08 is right. It turns out that many cats that are "allergic" to chicken in a dry or wet cat food don't seem to have the same problem when it's fed raw. It would seem there's something about the processing - or perhaps it's actually other ingredients in the food - that causes the problem.
There is also a member whose kitty suffered from IBD when he was first adopted - it was due to E. coli damage. And because of the damage to his colon, he could not handle a diet with the required amount of fat. He had to eat a low-fat diet, that wasn't easy to manage. So often, there's just no way to know what's actually causing the problem. A raw diet isn't always the answer - but for many IBD kitties, their first day on 100% raw, and they have no more diarrhea. Sometimes it just takes feeding them what they're meant to eat. :heart2:
But if he's never had other proteins, as peaches mentions, those could be worth a try too. The main thing is to find something he's not had before, and feed it to him in a more natural state. But if that's not possible, because liver is essential to a homemade diet (and kidney a plus, if you can find that), you may have to try chicken or beef liver, as those seem to be most common. I use rabbit liver and kidney when I have it, but for the most part, my cats get chicken liver and beef kidney. None of my kitties have IBD, but that's a pretty standard combination, even for IBD kitties. I know quite a few that had a "chicken intolerance" when eating canned food that are able to eat chicken liver when fed raw. :dk:
Just something to think about.
But I'm curious if the new vet had any diet suggestions?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #11
Never tried beef or pork; never seen goat organs in here and I don't thing there are any llamas, I know that they sell deer meat. It would be amazing if he could tolerate chicken liver, it's really easy to get, I would have to give it a try but it kind of scares me
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #12
Noo!!
The new vet didn't have any diet suggestions!!! she even told me that she had tried home cooked food for one of her cats but that she "had failed" because it was just to much work ¬¬ Asked her about the egg yolks and she told me to be careful because of salmonella, but no, she didn't know much, just told me to try feeding him with something he's never tried. With Manson there's supposed to be an allergy trigger that I haven't found yet, and it is sooo hard to tell, because the steroids control his crisis, so I have no way of knowing if he got sick because of something he ate or if it's just the steroid effect wearing out
It's funny you mention E. Coli, I've always considered it a possibility! and when I first wormed him it was the first time I saw mucus in his stool. When I found him he was in very bad shape. I'm thinking about having more fecal tests done
I can give raw chicken a try... I'm kind of scared of doing it, I have always thought that raw meat and illness come together. I know it's not the same for cats but it's hard to unlearn this
It's funny you mention E. Coli, I've always considered it a possibility! and when I first wormed him it was the first time I saw mucus in his stool. When I found him he was in very bad shape. I'm thinking about having more fecal tests done
I can give raw chicken a try... I'm kind of scared of doing it, I have always thought that raw meat and illness come together. I know it's not the same for cats but it's hard to unlearn this
Well, if you can find something else, it's probably better to start with a protein he's never had before. The only problem is that some cats have trouble tolerating red meats. Yeah, sourcing what we need can be a real headache!
Poke around, ask around, and see what your options are.
Poke around, ask around, and see what your options are.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #14
I will go to the local market tomorrow and see what they have and what they can get for me. Hopefully they can get me only the organs and not the whole animal, I don't think I could take out the organs my self
Thank you LDG
Thank you LDG
If the meat and organs are fresh, it shouldn't be a problem. But yes, it is VERY hard to unlearn that one!
You can also try cooked meat. Bone can't be fed cooked, unless you use a pressure cooker like one member did until the bone was mush. Eggshell calcium is extremely easy to make yourself if you want to try cooked without having to pressure cook the bones.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #17
Thank u Peaches We had eggs for breakfast so I'm drying the shells and will grind them later. Also, the butcher told me he could get the rabbit organs (he mentioned horse meat also... but that's just too much for me) but that he can only get them once a week. Can I freeze them?
We had eggs for breakfast so I'm drying the shells and will grind them later. Also, the butcher told me he could get the rabbit organs (he mentioned horse meat also... but that's just too much for me) but that he can only get them once a week. Can I freeze them?Sure! I do that with chicken liver when I only need half the container to make a batch of food and refreeze with no problems. I just try to be mindful and time things out so meat/liver isn't defrosted for too long before refreezing.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #19
Oh that's great!
You may find you want to cut up the meat into meal-sized portions (if feeding raw) before freezing or re-freezing. Makes meals a breeze!
To use the organs, basically you need to figure out how much total food she eats either daily or weekly. Liver should be at least 5% of that total, spread out over several meals. I actually provide a little bit at one meal each day, rather than 1/2 a meal or something several times a week (organs are too "rich" to provide as a meal in and of themselves). If you can provide another secreting organ (like kidney), then that can also be 5% of the total food. Lungs and heart are treated like muscle meat, and most cats like them. My cats LOVE hearts. They have a lot of taurine.
In fact, you can see my organ meal prep, I put up a thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264489/making-a-meal-pictures
You may find you want to cut up the meat into meal-sized portions (if feeding raw) before freezing or re-freezing. Makes meals a breeze!
To use the organs, basically you need to figure out how much total food she eats either daily or weekly. Liver should be at least 5% of that total, spread out over several meals. I actually provide a little bit at one meal each day, rather than 1/2 a meal or something several times a week (organs are too "rich" to provide as a meal in and of themselves). If you can provide another secreting organ (like kidney), then that can also be 5% of the total food. Lungs and heart are treated like muscle meat, and most cats like them. My cats LOVE hearts. They have a lot of taurine.
In fact, you can see my organ meal prep, I put up a thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264489/making-a-meal-pictures
