Help please! Mama cat attacking her kittens

[jessegirl11]

An outside feral cat had 3 kittens under my front porch about 6 months ago. Since I saw them I've been taking care of them, feeding them & putting beds & blankets under porch for them to sleep on. I tried to find homes for kittens after they were weened from mom, but it was kitten season & everyone was full up on kittens. Anyway, I spayed Moma cat as soon as she stopped nursing. Now the kittens are getting big....I just took the 1 male kitten in to be neutered this past Friday, since I've released him back outside, mama cat has been attacking all of her babies. I've been so upset..she's been such a great mom, always on top of them & watching them & cleaning them. I thought it might be the vet smell on the cat I had fixed, but it's been 4 days already....& she's attacking & growling at all of them....she chases them away from the food. I've been so upset & worried, is this normal behavior or am I missing something?. I've been stressing about the cold weather coming also. I bought a cedar insulated house for them, I ordered the biggest one they had, but it doesn't seem very big & I can't see it being that warm either when it gets really cold out. I already have 4 rescue cats and a rescue dog in my house & not a lot of room....I'm broken hearted & worried all the time....what can I do?

 

[bbarb]

Please don't worry, heart breaking as it is its normal for the mother to chase her babies away once they are old enough to fend for themselves, its like birds flying the nest at the end of summer.  Nature is very cruel.

It might be kindest for you to get the females spayed if you can afford it, as they'll soon be off to find territories of their own, they won't all live together in one happy family for ever. 

Do they come indoors and allow you to stroke them or are they truly wild?

 

[jessegirl11]

Thank you for writing me Barb. Oh no!!....I thought they would stay together as a family. Up until 5 days ago mama cat was still licking them and cleaning them and sleeping all together. I was scared mama would chase them away with what she's doing now & after hearing from you now.....so that's it?...they'll go off on their own now?...but they're so used to being together for 6 months now.....mama was feral when she first came, now she lets me pet her. 2 of the 3 kittens are very affectionate with me, one kitten will rub against my leg but still backs away if I try & pet her. I'm devastated, I love them so much & worry about them all the time....I can't let them in because I have 4 rescue cats & a rescue dog in my house now who all have problems. But I don't want them to leave, I'm afraid they won't make it on their own.....I go out 4 times a day at least to feed & take care of them, they have their cedar house I bought them to sleep in....as you mentioned I plan to get the other 2 female kittens spayed, but I know they need more care then the male after surgery & wanted to wait till I can afford to get them done together & then keep them inside in a large dog cage I have for a day or two at least. I just had such a bad experience last week when I neutered the male.....they told me they had to do 'ear tipping' on him to mark that he was neutered & it was mandatory if he was outdoors, but when I got him home I was horrified....they took off more than half his ear....it looks terrible & my heart broke.....I had looked online at pictures of ear tipping & nothing was anywhere near as drastic as my poor baby got....he looks like he was butchered. Maybe I'm overreacting, but even my husband who always tells me I over react, was sooo upset when he saw the cat, that he called the vet to yell at them for taking so much off. Don't they need their ears when their outside especially, the ear pinnas or tips so they can catch very low sounds to avoid predators & other dangers?....i feel so anxious now with the cold weather coming, mama has been around as my neighbors tell me for years outside, but is don't think the babies will make it. If I trap them & bring them inside & put them downstairs in my basement for now, do you think I can find homes for them?....I asked around everywhere when they were kittens but.....how do people throw their animals out or let them out unfixed to have kittens like this?....it's horrible, I can't sleep as it is, I just can't leave them to be chased away off on their own

 

[vball91]

Thank you so much for taking care of these strays, especially the spaying/neutering. There are benefits to ear tipping, but some vets do seem to take off more than others.

  If the kittens are friendly, you may be able to find homes for them. If you can get everyone spayed/neutered, they are less likely to wander. I don't know what to tell you about momma cat attacking her kittens. Usually that happens as the female goes into heat and prepares for the next litter, but since you had her spayed, I would think that behavior would be less likely to happen. I do wonder if the vet smell did set her off a little. Maybe try swiping some vanilla extract on all of them?

 

[jessegirl11]

Thank you for writing me, I was thinking it might be what you said also....maybe the vet smell, especially since that's when her behavior seemed to start. The only thing that made me think that it wasn't the vet is that mama is attacking all 3 kittens, not just the one I took in to vet.....but maybe the smell on just that one kitten set her off?....or maybe if the kittens slept together the smell is on all of them now?.....but what did you mention about the vanilla extract?, I'm not familiar with that, what does it do?....thanks again for any information or advice that can help me.....I'm just so worried & upset about them all the time

 

[happybird]

hmmm. I wonder if the female kittens are getting ready to go into their first heat and that's why the mom is reacting? 6 months is getting to be about the right time for it... They should definitely be spayed ASAP so you don't have more kittens to worry about!
Thank you for caring for mama and her babies

 

[jessegirl11]

Thanks for the advice, maybe the 2 female kittens are getting ready to go into heat.....I just didn't know that would set mama off, I'm not very familiar with outside or stray cat behavior. I've always kept my pets indoors & never had any strays that I took care of outside before as I just moved out to a house in a rural area from living in the city all my life. I also would like some opinions on spaying them.. I was so horrified at how the male was treated when I bought him in last week to be fixed, I don't want to subject the females to the same thing. Of course I want them spayed, but I would like to try & save money to have them done as if they were mine....instead of taking them in to be done as strays. When I took the male in, my vet called it 'feral Friday'.....a day when they spay & neuter cats for a flat fee which mandatorily includes vaccines and ear tipping. Of course I don't mind the vaccines & I understand the reason behind the ear tipping....but as I mentioned before I'm horrified at how he looks. I explained to the vet technician when I dropped him off for neuter that he was a stray but not feral, that he was actually a sweety pie and please not to cut too much of his ear off. I don't see how it's necessary to cut that much of the cats ear off. when I called the vet after I got him home and saw how butchered he looked...I said, by definition 'ear tipping'...don't you just cut the tip off the cats ear so if he's caught at some later time people can tell that he's been neutered. It seems very cruel to me how much was chopped off and breaks my heart every time I look at him. His whole ear is practically gone!!....more than half was taken off, it just looks like a stump now....won't it hinder his balance outside or affect his hearing ability that he needs so desperately since he's outside?.....didn't god design their ears like that so that they catch the sound and that's why their sense of hearing is so acute?....anyway, I'm extremely wary to bring the 2 female kittens back there for spaying after that....maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. I just feel like they're not treated as we'll when the vets hear they're strays (or maybe it's just my vet)....I don't know if I should try somewhere else or like I said save up and pay full price for them so they do exactly what I want with them. I am very grateful so far for all the wonderful advice I'm getting, god bless all of you fellow cat lovers out there who look after and care for your own little babies, and thank you again for taking the time to read about my problems & then to get back to me.

 

[snugglecat]

I had my feral cats done through the TNR program and they only cut the tip of the ear but I too have heard some take off more then others. I have a mama cat and her 3 daughters. Mama is 5 years old and the daughters are 4 years old. Mine have stayed together and get along well. One of the daughters did move across the street but came every day to eat. Not sure what happened but Tess has not been seen since July of 2012. I do believe she found a new place to eat and sleep. Like others have said I would be getting those female kitties spayed ASAP. The mama cat I'm caring for had her first litter of 5 in May and then had another litter of 6 in August. I was lucky enough to get all 6 of the second litter because Mama cat was just to tired and worn out to care for another litter of kittens so soon. She actually brought 2 of them to my front door and brought one to my neighbors front door and she would not take them back. Sorry getting off track. I just hope you can get them spayed soon. Thank you for taking such good care of them.

 

[happybird]

That's a shame they took so much off his poor little ear I totally understand why you don't want the same thing to happen to the girls.
Does the clinic offer low cost spaying for pet cats as opposed to Feral Friday? The local clinic here offers both types of service and they don't tip the pet cats unless you request it.
One of my cats is tipped (we took her in not knowing what it meant at the time) and it's V shaped notch. We thought another stray cat had taken a bite out of her ear! I guess all the different vets have their different mark. I've seen photos of cats with similar tipping to what your guy got - I am also curious as to how it affects their balance and hearing.

 

[jessegirl11]

I know it is terrible about his ear....I feel sooo guilty....I had no idea that they would take so much off. Had I known I would have taken him somewhere else....there is a low cost spay & neuter facility out here but when I was talking to my vet, after I had the male kitten fixed, about how upset I was over his ear....the vet responded by saying to me....'then why don't you take him to the low cost spay & neuter clinic in Kent where they re-use the same surgical pack on every cat they spay or neuter for the entire day'......I was horrified needless to say......& that's the only other low cost spay & neuter out here.....so I either take him back to the same vet or pay full price for them where I'll have to bring them in ahead of time for exams, vaccines & leukemia & aids testing before I can even schedule their spaying....which is what I was told. I just moved out to Long Island from Brooklyn.....& I have to say the vets in Brooklyn where much better & more willing to help & work with you than out here....if it wasn't so far & traumatic for the cats , I'd drive them back into Brooklyn to be done...

 

[tnyc]

Yeah I wouldn't trust a vet from Long Island.

 I would recommend you find a low cost spay neuter in Manhattan. 

 

[jessegirl11]

I can't take it anymore......I'm seriously considering taking these 3 cats in. Mama cat is getting worse by the day, she's more & more aggressive with them, attacking, biting & growling at them whenever they come close. The kittens are terrified of her now....I feel so bad for them, they try to go up & rub on her or lay down & snuggle with her like they used to....up to just a week ago....& she won't have any of it. She chases them away from the food & at night I think she chases them away from their shelter/house, where they sleep. The whole atmosphere has changed so much overnight. I would love going outside & watching them all play together, eat, clean each other & then snuggle up & sleep together.....now the kittens are always so scared & wary, they're not eating as much, they disappear more & for longer periods during the day & they're not staying together like they used to. To make the situation even worse.....2 large stray dogs wandered onto the property this morning, chasing the cats.....I ran outside & chased them away from the cats.....I was afraid to get to close to them because they definitely looked like they've been on the street for a while & I didn't know if they were viscous & might turn on me....I felt very bad for the dogs though, they were so skinny....they looked like yellow labs from what I could see, one was a male-not fixed from what I could see.....which is probably how he got out in the first place. I went out again once the kittens were safe to see if I could find the dogs....I called animal control to report it....but don't think they'll do anything. My heart breaks for all of them, all they want is food, shelter & love....& their owners let them down, out of neglect, ignorance or just plain not caring...& the poor animals suffer for it. But I digress big time, I'm even more worried about the kittens now that I have stray dogs roaming around hungry......between mama turning on them, the cold weather & stray dogs & raccoons about.....I think I have no choice but to bring them in. I'll have to put them all in 1 room for now to separate them from all my animals until I figure out what to do with them. I'm just so not sure...I want to do whats best for them....they're so used to being outside being almost 7 months old now....will they be upset being inside?.....I'm afraid once I bring them in if I let them back out for the day they might not come back....so I should just keep them in until I figure out some better situation for them? I feel it's just too cold out there for them & I'm always waiting to go out & see one of them hit by a car....I'm becoming a nervous wreck over this....my husband is going to kill me over this....we have so many cats already & a dog....we're all full up & don't have a lot of money to take care of all of them.....but as I said I just don't see any other option....I just wish I could find homes for them, they're all so sweet & beautiful....but I couldn't get rid of them when they were adorable tiny kittens....forget now that they're almost full grown, right?

 

[procat]

Have you tried feeding them separately? By separately, I mean scheduled feedings where Mama gets her own plate away from the others.

I had the same exact issue with my Mama cat and her four kittens. Once they got to a certain age, she turned aggressive on all but the runt of the litter. It wasn't a gradual thing; One day she was fine, the next it was screeching, hissing, spitting and alpha catting. Trying to keep the peace, I kind of unintentionally discovered that my Mama cat's issue was food aggression. Keep in mind that once the kittens stop nursing they are essentially competing with Mama cat's food supply.

Keeping them separate was pretty easy.  Mama cat somewhat trusts me, so she'll follow me until I drop the plate... while (initially) the kittens would scatter until I dropped the plate and walked away. Of course, now I can't even get out the patio door without a Tazmanian ring of cats running around my ankles, but I would say within a week or two of the separating routine, the fighting was reduced to the occasional "Just remember, I'm the boss." episode.

A couple of months after that, the kittens became more independent and they started to show up together but separately from Mama. In my seven months of feral dealings, I've discovered that they can be surprisingly routine-oriented. I named my mama cat "Casio" because I can practically set my watch to her arrival time. The kittens more or less show up whenever, but it's always after sundown.

Right now, I'd just give them some patience and maybe a little nudge of help. I know it probably sounds like they're killing each other, but one other thing to remember is that ferals are pack/colony animals. Your mama cat may just be trying to show them who's the boss... or, if they're about six months old, mama might be trying to push them out of the dependence nest, so to speak.

Good luck and hang in there.

 

[catwoman707]

With my rescue group, I have done a ton of tnr'ing, I have a regular 'cat route' I go on in my town, all colonies I have tnr'd I continue to care for and feed for life.

I prefer them having an ear tip, as it also alerts the public that they are fixed and will not reproduce, so I don't get much if any compalints from business owners or neighbors, they know while I am feeding, these cats are a controlled colony.

I have seen though, some clinics take a tip off, some a 'v' shape, one did this question mark thingy (cute) but one vet lopped off over half her ear, I was so pissed! It makes no sense to take so much, it gets into the thicker part of the ear/cartilage, is sooo much more painful, and takes alot longer to heal.

Anyway, they don't all take that much though. Yours was just an unfortunate one, like one of mine. (I mean when I say, more than half her ear, like 2/3 of it! Rediculous)

Momma cat reacted from the smell. She could smell the fear/adrenaline, the med, the vet smells, and it scared her, as she also saw it as a threat of attracting predators. A weak link so to speak.

The fact is, by 6 months of age, they no longer recognize mom as their mom, siblings as their sister or brother, and so on. This is why they are fine with incest. It's not incest to them.

By sexual maturity they only see one another as a possible mate.

Highly doubtful that mom will actually injure them, her behavior is an attempt to run them off. Keep her food source safe, etc.

Absolutely, get the girls fixed asap. They will very soon, if not are already, be pregnant. Then you will be aborting or having another litter of kids, who will then all need fixing, it goes on and on. Get them spayed asap

As for the poor dogs, call animal control. It is for their own good as well as yours. They will be fed, fixed, and find a new, caring home.