Help In Ordering Cat Food

[Kflowers]

I have never fed the cats Royal Canin or Hill's special diets. I was lucky, we only had one blockage and no crystals after that.

One of the dogs got a bladder stone the size of a shooter marble. We went straight to surgery, no we aren't going to buy the fancy food and hope for a month of uncomfortable peeing that a stone that big dissolves. The vet did say she had to eat the Hill's special diet. She refused. She ate acorns and pecans she found in the yard and lost a good bit of weight. So did her companion dog. I said enough and put them back on regular food, which doesn't exist anymore. Neither ever had another stone.

A neighbor believed she was feeding her cat special Hill's kidney diet. When she went on vacation I was chosen to go fight, and I mean fight the food down that cat. No one thought of syringes then just fingers. Grim. later discovered the cat, who was supposed to be floor bound was jumping on the table eating grocery store dry food left up there for the others.

Neighbor's cat lived to be 20.

I think it's genetics, willingness to drink water, and luck.

My cat won't eat wet food. Since I already had one years ago, who starved herself to death (I think she missed her former owner and nothing we or the other cats did helped) I'm not trying to force her to. She's sensitive to chicken as a meat, but can tolerate chicken broth and chicken fat so she eats Fromm.

 

[Siberian cat]

You don't have to argue with the vet. Just politely but firmly say no to prescription treats. Food is one thing you can disagree with the vet about. An occasional treat isn't going to cause a huge urinary blockage or anything.

I don't know about Europe, but US pet stores sell commercial urinary treats. You can try looking for something in your pet stores.

Prescription food for life may not even be necessary for some cats. Many cats just need extra water in their diet which canned food can provide. Catinfo.org has more on urinary issues and diet. If you're feeding the Royal Canin SO or other similar prescription food, there may alternatives:

Alternatives to Royal Canin SO
Alternatives to expensive Urinary SO food

To be honest after this much suffering I am even afraid to say my name when at the vet clinic. Clearly I did something wrong before. He was on half wet half dry diet before, high quality regular. He had most of the time Acana or Orijen, rarely a little Purina, he had a water fountain too. But I did screw up something and something big since he almost died... that is why now I am reluctant to feed him with anything but urinary as the wet said, even if it sound pretty logical sometimes. Anyways many times the non prescription urinary means they put some cranberries in it to pretend it prevents UTI and some other stuff to strengthen the bladder wall. Usually it lacks many things as properly low magnesium, phosphate or calcium content. Something which increases their thirst and PH lacks regulators etc. Nos I found this in the local supermarket: Ultima Adult Urinary

Maybe he will get one of these, so he will eat something other than the dry urinary Royal Canin finally. It is just simply impossible to convince him to eat the wet urinary.... It is pretty annoying actually. I tried every single trick from the web, but he just resists!

 

[Kflowers]

This part of your post is just wrong. Clearly I did something wrong before... But I did screw up something and something big since he almost died..

You did NOTHING wrong. You did a lot right, a lot good. You can't change genetics.

Did your vet tell you that? If so, he's wrong, too. You are not responsible for your cat's genetics or the luck of the draw. Bad things happen. Kittens die from congenital defects, so do human babies. Kittens and human babies get diseases that kill them. It just happens.

You know a lot about this which gives you an excellent place to look at different foods. See what you want in your cat's food, see if that is in the food. Is it in RC, Hill's? See what you don't want in your cat's food. Is it in RC, Hill's?

If you take this responsibility, am I responsible for my cat who developing preciousness anemia and dying at age 4? Am I responsible for my cats who died of cancer at 16, 17, or kidney failure at 12 and another at 19? Because if you think about it that's what you said. And, I don't think that's what you meant. But if A=B, and B=C, then A=C.

 

[Siberian cat]

I have never fed the cats Royal Canin or Hill's special diets. I was lucky, we only had one blockage and no crystals after that.

One of the dogs got a bladder stone the size of a shooter marble. We went straight to surgery, no we aren't going to buy the fancy food and hope for a month of uncomfortable peeing that a stone that big dissolves. The vet did say she had to eat the Hill's special diet. She refused. She ate acorns and pecans she found in the yard and lost a good bit of weight. So did her companion dog. I said enough and put them back on regular food, which doesn't exist anymore. Neither ever had another stone.

A neighbor believed she was feeding her cat special Hill's kidney diet. When she went on vacation I was chosen to go fight, and I mean fight the food down that cat. No one thought of syringes then just fingers. Grim. later discovered the cat, who was supposed to be floor bound was jumping on the table eating grocery store dry food left up there for the others.

Neighbor's cat lived to be 20.

I think it's genetics, willingness to drink water, and luck.

My cat won't eat wet food. Since I already had one years ago, who starved herself to death (I think she missed her former owner and nothing we or the other cats did helped) I'm not trying to force her to. She's sensitive to chicken as a meat, but can tolerate chicken broth and chicken fat so she eats Fromm.

Yes, the only thing I would add, don’t castrate cats too early. I mean crystals are normal to form, as I read to some extent. But if the diameter of the urethra is big enough, it just comes out. But if they are castrated too early, the penis could stay like a baby penis with tiny urethra diameter, and usually crystal block at the beginning of the penis in this case (bottleneck part). I am not 100% sure it is completely true, but I think even if it is just a factor, or it can have some truth in it, it is worth to consider. After all it takes nothing additional to have the castration at age 6 months old, instead of 3-4 months old. Maybe you win a few percent chance with it to decrease the chance for a block, ceteris paribus :-)

 

[Kflowers]

Have you considered Perineal Urethostomy (PU)?
Here's an article on it. Perineal Urethostomy (PU), Blocked Cat, Bladder Stones, Animal Hospital, Ypsilanti

It's expensive, but if you can afford it, it might make you feel safer. If I had male cats and the money, honestly I'd do it. And that is after 10+ male cats with only one getting blocked and none having crystals. Mine were neutered as I rescued them. The youngest were done at 9 months.

 

[Kflowers]

The reason some cats are neutered earlier is that the shelters don't trust people to get it done and they are often right about that. People will swear, even sign papers that they will get it done, then don't for various reasons and sort of reasons. People lie.

 

[Siberian cat]

This part of your post is just wrong. Clearly I did something wrong before... But I did screw up something and something big since he almost died..

You did NOTHING wrong. You did a lot right, a lot good. You can't change genetics.

Did your vet tell you that? If so, he's wrong, too. You are not responsible for your cat's genetics or the luck of the draw. Bad things happen. Kittens die from congenital defects, so do human babies. Kittens and human babies get diseases that kill them. It just happens.

You know a lot about this which gives you an excellent place to look at different foods. See what you want in your cat's food, see if that is in the food. Is it in RC, Hill's? See what you don't want in your cat's food. Is it in RC, Hill's?

If you take this responsibility, am I responsible for my cat who developing preciousness anemia and dying at age 4? Am I responsible for my cats who died of cancer at 16, 17, or kidney failure at 12 and another at 19? Because if you think about it that's what you said. And, I don't think that's what you meant. But if A=B, and B=C, then A=C.

Yes, and thank you for the encouragement! I would really like to agree full heartedly, but currently it is only 80%. My other 20% says it was at least partly my fault.

 

[Kflowers]

I wasn't snarking about the PU surgery. You might start saving up for it, or at least look into it and consider it.

 

[Siberian cat]

Have you considered Perineal Urethostomy (PU)?
Here's an article on it. Perineal Urethostomy (PU), Blocked Cat, Bladder Stones, Animal Hospital, Ypsilanti

It's expensive, but if you can afford it, it might make you feel safer. If I had male cats and the money, honestly I'd do it. And that is after 10+ male cats with only one getting blocked and none having crystals. Mine were neutered as I rescued them. The youngest were done at 9 months.

Oh, so I hid it well enough in my first long comment.
So it was a PU operation at first already, because however they tried it was impossible to put up the catheter. To be more precise, they put up a catheter, then it blocked, they put up another one, that got blocked too, then they don’t manage to put up catheter again. (All this happened within 12 hours).
Then to save his life they performed an emergency PU. They said since it was emergency with less than ideal circumstances (badly inflamed tissue), we might need a second surgery. Well, we needed it! 30 days after the first surgery he was really struggling to urinate. Then they made a nice hole/opening, which was finally not inflamed for a second, and a big-big healthy looking hole compared to the first one. So now they say he will be fine, and he looks much better too than before. We are now 16 days after the second surgery. I hope I can stop worry about him just for about at Christmas time. Oh and don’t tell me about how pricey it is. Since we are in Europe, vets are generally much cheaper than in US. Well we just reached 4k in euros this week for this little fella! We were just joking today that he needs two working adults to have him fixed/healed! But he is such a special, polite and clever cat, feels like money well spent.

 

[Furballsmom]

however he got the issue to start , I'm so very glad he has you now, to love him and to be there for him

 

[jcat]

The purpose of the urinary diets is to manage ph levels, so feeding a mix of urinary dry and regular wet defeats the purpose. Very few cats I've known will eat the Royal Canin urinary wet food, though most like the dry. Hill's wet urinary food (Hill's c/d) is obviously more palatable, so you might try feeding that along with the RC dry. That's what the cats on the prescription diet at the shelter have preferred; our own cat ate Hill's c/d wet and either the Hill's or the RC dry.

Kattovit Urinary is also available in Europe, but a lot of vets give that a thumbs down due to the high sodium content. A lot of cats do the same due to the taste.

Our last cat was eating Orijen and Acana when he developed bladder problems, which doesn't prove anything, but other members reported the same thing.

 

[Kflowers]

You got the PU surgery, you've done the ultimate. I'm glad you could afford it. It does sound as though there was a genetic component to this and you've fixed that.

I found a list though Google of ways to test his ph in his urine. This will be easier if you use decorative glass beads (they are the ones you put in fish tanks) instead of litter. If you want to track his ph google it.

I will refrain from discussing how US vets have learned terrible things from US human doctors.

 

[Siberian cat]

The purpose of the urinary diets is to manage ph levels, so feeding a mix of urinary dry and regular wet defeats the purpose. Very few cats I've known will eat the Royal Canin urinary wet food, though most like the dry. Hill's wet urinary food (Hill's c/d) is obviously more palatable, so you might try feeding that along with the RC dry. That's what the cats on the prescription diet at the shelter have preferred; our own cat ate Hill's c/d wet and either the Hill's or the RC dry.

Kattovit Urinary is also available in Europe, but a lot of vets give that a thumbs down due to the high sodium content. A lot of cats do the same due to the taste.

Our last cat was eating Orijen and Acana when he developed bladder problems, which doesn't prove anything, but other members reported the same thing.

We tried Hill’s urinary stress wet food. He liked that one much more, but he developed some sort of allergy to it. He had diarrhea and swollen lips after 1-2 days, which only disappeared after we stopped giving Hill’s. I am not entirely sure it was because of the food or just a big coincidence, so I will try it once again a little bit later. But for now it’s only RC dry urinary... I wanted to try tonight the Ultima Urinary wet, just to see if we can think about it at all. But I am not even sure about that since they advertise it proudly it is rich in magnesium to help to promote healthy PH. Well, struvite stones contain magnesium and RC advertises their food with reduced magnesium content for this reason. So it seems pretty stupid to write this...

 

[Kflowers]

Tell your vet about the coincidence of feeding him Hill's and the swollen lips. Facial swelling is serious and sometimes dangerous. If I were you, I'd only try the Hill's again in an exam room at the vet in case it is an allergic reaction. The second allergic reaction to the same thing is usually stronger than the first.

 

[Siberian cat]

Tell your vet about the coincidence of feeding him Hill's and the swollen lips. Facial swelling is serious and sometimes dangerous. If I were you, I'd only try the Hill's again in an exam room at the vet in case it is an allergic reaction. The second allergic reaction to the same thing is usually stronger than the first.

He had it already couple of times, and it was luckily never too serious. The vet saw him last time after the Hill’s, there was no need for treatment. Then we stopped feeding it after couple of days, the swelling and diarrhea stopped. It can be a coincidence since he was on plenty of medications at the time (poor boy) and who knows. There are just very limited options for Urinary issues unfortunately. Most of them don’t seem too tasty for cats, or don’t have the best ingredients. I still think though I will try Hill’s again in small quantities to see. But for now we are completely stuck with the dry RC. The only thing he does with the wet, is licking out all the gravy quickly, even if I water up, which is a lot of water intake at once, but he leaves almost all the solid part (meat) there. Considering how expensive it is, it cost almost 2 bucks for a drink like this. He gets it twice a day, so currently we spend 4 bucks/day only for making him drink more. So not the most sustainable on long term!

 

[Kflowers]

Since he's okay with the extra water, have you tried making a slurry of it?

Yes, I've known cats who tried to live on the gravy alone. The only one it worked for was bringing down mice for gifts and snacks.

 

[Siberian cat]

Since he's okay with the extra water, have you tried making a slurry of it?

Yes, I've known cats who tried to live on the gravy alone. The only one it worked for was bringing down mice for gifts and snacks.

Hmm, maybe I should! Here is a pic from the cat for the idea! Even if it doesn’t work it’s the best idea I heard in the last 2-3 days! :-) It’s one of the last pictures from back then, when I still thought he will be healthy for the next 10+ years, before this whole thing started...

 

[Kflowers]

He's beautiful and he's going to be healthy again. You'll work out the routine. It just takes time.

If it helps the PU surgery didn't exist until recently. Now it does and you could afford it. I take that as a sign that you are safe to hope for a good future.

PS feeding cats is seldom easy.

 

[Siberian cat]

He's beautiful and he's going to be healthy again. You'll work out the routine. It just takes time.

If it helps the PU surgery didn't exist until recently. Now it does and you could afford it. I take that as a sign that you are safe to hope for a good future.

PS feeding cats is seldom easy.

Yes, I know they are particular creatures, but he already lost 10% of his body weight in the last 2 month, 2 surgeries, 17 days hospitalization, lost of medication and GI problems... Now that all these maladies seem to end, I just want him to gain something back quickly! He is soo slim now. When I rub his back I can feel all the bones like never before. That’s why I wanted the treats originally. I could convince him eating more by putting his favorite treats on top of the food. Since those are not urinary, I don’t dare to do it again, just did it in the first days after surgery...

 

[Kflowers]

Have you asked your vet about how long his expected recovery time? Will he need to continue to build up slowly after that?

As he gets his strength back, he may enjoy eating more.