Help Identifying Parents Of Kittens

[SftWrmRain]

I recently noticed a family of four kittens living behind my house and around my neighbors homes. I became interested in watching them and have learned a lot about their personalities. As such, I wonder who their parents are.

So, I started investigating, and have found three adult cats in the area who seem to live nearby. All are feral. In watching these cats, I have found the kittens sleeping nearby what I believe is a tomcat, from the one time I caught glimpse of his hind quarters. He is a black Mackerel tabby with some (little) white. The other two adults I have found together more than once, and one time I saw the kittens following the pointed cat I'm about to mention.

I don't know their gender and I'm hoping you can help me figure this out based on the coloration of the kitties. The other two adults: one is a red mackerel tabby with some white. The other is a long-haired cinnamon? pointed. I'm really not sure of the color of the points. I have typed in the visual characteristics of all of these cats and combinations into calculators and I cannot come up with a combination that would throw a black Mackerel tabby baby. Can anyone, or would anyone like to help me figure this out? I'm intensely interested in genetics, as they fascinate me, and I've done a bit of research about it in the past couple weeks. I'm posting pictures of the potential parents first, and the kittens after that.

There are FOUR tabby kittens total....

Red with white tabby
Calico with white tabby
Calico with (more) white tabby
Black Mackerel tabby

 

[talkingpeanut]

Are those the kittens in the last photo? Can you bring them inside and work to tame them?

This colony really needs to be spayed and neutered!

 

[abyeb]

The pointed Mediumhair appears to be a blue tortie point, which means she's female. He red and white is most likely male. I'm guessing the last photo is the kittens? The red and white harlequin bicolor and the torbie? My guess would be that the tortie point is the mother and the red mackeral and white is the father.

 

[SftWrmRain]

The kittens photos are labeled beginning with Baby... I think the last 3 photos are the babies. I can't get closer than about 10 feet to them - they are very wild and afraid of humans. I'm trying to earn their trust before it gets cold.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Can you borrow a humane trap? You really don't have time to wait.

 

[SftWrmRain]

The pointed Mediumhair appears to be a blue tortie point, which means she's female. He red and white is most likely male. I'm guessing the last photo is the kittens? The red and white harlequin bicolor and the torbie? My guess would be that the tortie point is the mother and the red mackeral and white is the father.

Soo... when I saw the kittens laying nearby the other tomcat - the black mackerel... that's normal if he's not their father?

 

[SftWrmRain]

The pointed Mediumhair appears to be a blue tortie point, which means she's female. He red and white is most likely male. I'm guessing the last photo is the kittens? The red and white harlequin bicolor and the torbie? My guess would be that the tortie point is the mother and the red mackeral and white is the father.

The only problem with that possibility is the red baby. All females would be torties and all males would be black.... right? Oh, and there are 4 babies total. I've included a picture of all of them in the original post.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

The pointed Mediumhair appears to be a blue tortie point, which means she's female. He red and white is most likely male. I'm guessing the last photo is the kittens? The red and white harlequin bicolor and the torbie? My guess would be that the tortie point is the mother and the red mackeral and white is the father.

abyeb - Certainly possible. Three kittens are O and one is o. No points means cs is absent, but it requires two copies for expression in all events.

SftWrmRain O, being sex-linked, has determined three orange kittens, all female, certainly. The blue tabby kitten (o) is then male, and the blue tabby male:

https://thecatsite.com/attachments/dad-parent-jpg.195182/

is the Sire. Either of the pointed cats might be the Queen, assuming she carried O, but if this cat is female:

https://thecatsite.com/attachments/red-parent-jpg.195181/

she would certainly be the Queen, given the O-O-O-o outcome (the odds against are only 3:1), so that's my wild guess, based on knowing just a little about feline genetics, and process of elimination at a few minutes before midnight.
.

 

[SftWrmRain]

Certainly possible. Three kittens are O and one is o. No points means cs is absent, but it requires two copies for expression in all events.

O, being sex-linked, has determined three orange kittens, all female, certainly. The blue tabby kitten (o) is then male, and the blue tabby male:

https://thecatsite.com/attachments/dad-parent-jpg.195182/

is the Sire. Either of the pointed cats might be the Queen, assuming she carried O, but if this cat is female:

https://thecatsite.com/attachments/red-parent-jpg.195181/

she would certainly be the Queen, given the O-O-O-o outcome (the odds against are only 3:1), so that's my wild guess, based on knowing just a little about feline genetics, and process of elimination at a few minutes before midnight.
.

Is it true that females cannot carry O without expressing it??

 

[SftWrmRain]

SftWrmRain - Certainly possible. Three kittens are O and one is o. No points means cs is absent, but it requires two copies for expression in all events.

O, being sex-linked, has determined three orange kittens, all female, certainly. The blue tabby kitten (o) is then male, and the blue tabby male:

https://thecatsite.com/attachments/dad-parent-jpg.195182/

is the Sire. Either of the pointed cats might be the Queen, assuming she carried O, but if this cat is female:

https://thecatsite.com/attachments/red-parent-jpg.195181/

she would certainly be the Queen, given the O-O-O-o outcome (the odds against are only 3:1), so that's my wild guess, based on knowing just a little about feline genetics, and process of elimination at a few minutes before midnight.
.

I typed your suggestion of the black (or blue) tabby being the father, and the red tabby being the mother into the genetics calculator and this is what it gave me:

Toms will all be black. Mollies will all be tortoiseshell.

This doesn't explain the red baby. I can't find any combination of the parents that will give both the red baby as well as the black (or blue) tabby baby.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Is it true that females cannot carry O without expressing it??

SftWrmRain - Nope; the accurate description is given that females have two X chromosomes, they have two alleles of O. OO results in orange, oo results in non-orange, and Oo results in a tortoiseshell cat, with some areas of the coat expressing orange. The Queen here is Oo, which means that she could, conceivably, have nothing but blue tabbies with a blue tabby Sire - but could not have any without one.

Given a blue tabby, one Parent must be a tabby (or a smoke, under the right circumstances). Did that answer the question?
.

 

[Ceracera]

There could be more than 1 father...

 

[SftWrmRain]

I think I may have found a way:

What if the (assumed) female tortie point is actually a torbie? If she is both red and black, when paired with the black/blue tabby, they could produce males of either red or black and females that are either black or torties....

Does anyone see the possibility of the tortie point actually being red AND black? I can see it in her face and tail when I look closely (especially in her tail) - although both colors are very diluted.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I typed your suggestion of the black (or blue) tabby being the father, and the red tabby being the mother into the genetics calculator and this is what it gave me:

Toms will all be black. Mollies will all be tortoiseshell.

This doesn't explain the red baby. I can't find any combination of the parents that will give both the red baby as well as the black (or blue) tabby baby.

The orange and Epistatic White kitten is Mom's O. Tell the smart machine that the kitten at the front of this image:

https://thecatsite.com/attachments/baby-1-3-and-4-jpg.195183/

is Ww, and not ww (the homozygous recessive).
.

 

[SftWrmRain]

SftWrmRain - Nope; the accurate description is given that females have two X chromosomes, they have two alleles of this O. OO results in orange, oo results in non-orange, and Oo results in a tortoiseshell cat, with some areas of the coat expressing orange. The Queen here is Oo, which means that she could, conceivably, have nothing but blue tabbies with a blue tabby Sire - but could not have any without one.

Given a blue tabby, one Parent must be a tabby (or a smoke, under the right circumstances). Did that answer the question?
.

The red cat that I only have that one picture of is fully red, with no black whatsoever.... causing me to believe she isn't tortiseshell. Please forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn since I'm still trying to learn the genetics of cats.

If the pointed cat is the female and SHE is a tortie, it does make sense, that SHE could have thrown both the red and the black babies when paired with the black tabby father?

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

There could be more than 1 father...

There certainly could; the question's premise, however, was to choose only two Parents.
.

 

[SftWrmRain]

There could be more than 1 father...

I had read that, and am still trying to figure out which adult cats are male and female in order to determine genetically if the two (presumed) males could have both fathered some of the babies.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I had read that, and am still trying to figure out which adult cats are male and female in order to determine genetically if the two (presumed) males could have both fathered some of the babies.

Only the blue tabby could have sired the blue tabby kitten. No tabby Parent equals no tabby progeny. I wish you the very best of luck in your studies.
.

 

[SftWrmRain]

SftWrmRain - Nope; the accurate description is given that females have two X chromosomes, they have two alleles of this O. OO results in orange, oo results in non-orange, and Oo results in a tortoiseshell cat, with some areas of the coat expressing orange. The Queen here is Oo, which means that she could, conceivably, have nothing but blue tabbies with a blue tabby Sire - but could not have any without one.

Given a blue tabby, one Parent must be a tabby (or a smoke, under the right circumstances). Did that answer the question?
.

Actually... If the mother is Oo, she WOULD have to be expressing both black and red, correct? I don't see any kind of black on the red cat (to my eye). She is a very pale red at that. I'm suspicious of the pointed cat at this point, being a diluted torbie possibly covered up in part by "with white?"

 

[SftWrmRain]

Only the blue tabby could have sired the blue tabby kitten. No tabby Parent equals no tabby progeny. I wish you the very best of luck in your studies.
.

All three adults are tabbies, in my estimation.