Help! Did someone else have a cat on raw food who has his creatinine levels a little bit elevated?

[lwndlnd]

Hi there! Recently both of my 2 year old cats had their blood checked and both of them had a little bit elevated creatinine level. On the IRIS scale it is already stage 2 CKD. Me and my vet are very confused because of these results. But we think that raw food can be the one to blame (I switched them off of kibble to raw food almost a year ago). Their BUN on the other hand is a little bit low. We will be doing uranalysis soon to be sure that everything is fine with their kidneys or to confirm that there is some problem. I was looking for more information online but apparently there are no researchers that can confirm that serum creatinine can be high in cats who are eating raw food. Can someone share similar experiences or provide me with some information? Cause I’m worried about my babies Thanks!

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi! I think there is some disagreement about raw diets specifically leading to a higher creatinine level. But one thing that I have consistently read is that there is little dispute that more muscular cats are commonly found to have higher levels. That is because creatinine is a by-product of muscle - simply put, the more muscle, the greater the creatinine output. One could argue that raw or homemade diets often have higher protein levels than many of the commercial cat foods, leading some to conclude that will result in greater muscle development.

Oddly enough, there was that exact statement you made above about IRIS Stage 2 regarding creatinine level - it was made in data found on Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease [Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Blood Chemistry Panel (felinecrf.org)] - but concluded to be somewhat misleading because the related study involved muscular cats.

I didn't directly answer your question - hopefully other members will see your post soon and offer their thoughts/opinions!

 

[maggie101]

One possibility is an infection
Many possible causes but hard to know for sure.

 

[lwndlnd]

Hi! I think there is some disagreement about raw diets specifically leading to a higher creatinine level. But one thing that I have consistently read is that there is little dispute that more muscular cats are commonly found to have higher levels. That is because creatinine is a by-product of muscle - simply put, the more muscle, the greater the creatinine output. One could argue that raw or homemade diets often have higher protein levels than many of the commercial cat foods, leading some to conclude that will result in greater muscle development.

Oddly enough, there was that exact statement you made above about IRIS Stage 2 regarding creatinine level - it was made in data found on Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease [Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Blood Chemistry Panel (felinecrf.org)] - but concluded to be somewhat misleading because the related study involved muscular cats.

I didn't directly answer your question - hopefully other members will see your post soon and offer their thoughts/opinions!

Thanks a lot for your response! I also read in some study that young and active cats can also have a little bit elevated creatinine. I just can’t understand how they could be having CKD cause they are only 2 years old. 1 year and 10 months to be even clearer. So that seems very odd to me. Also their results are pretty much identical (176 and 180). And creatinine is higher in my larger cat (she is almost 3 kg, the other one is 2.6 kg). We will be definitely monitoring these numbers and will do a further investigation. I really hope everything will be fine I’m not ready to hear this diagnosis, especially with my youngest babies. I will read Tanya’s guide tho! Thanks. It’s just really odd to me that cat’s who have creatinine over 140 considered to have stage 1 CKD, but normal range for creatinine still goes up to 160 (our lab has 165 as a top normal level). Like how could it be pathology if it’s still within a normal range? That IRIS staging doesn’t make sense to me at all

 

[lwndlnd]

One possibility is an infection
Many possible causes but hard to know for sure.

Thanks for your response! We don’t think it’s an infection cause all the other blood markers are absolutely normal and no symptoms of some pathology as well. But we will be doing more tests to understand those numbers

 

[FeebysOwner]

It’s just really odd to me that cat’s who have creatinine over 140 considered to have stage 1 CKD, but normal range for creatinine still goes up to 160 (our lab has 165 as a top normal level). Like how could it be pathology if it’s still within a normal range? That IRIS staging doesn’t make sense to me at all

Precise ranges can vary from lab to lab, so it is best to use the range that your lab lists with the results. As an average of norms, creatinine can be anywhere from 40 - 180. But creatinine is rarely used as the sole determinant in CKD, as such the IRIS offer additional layers of testing to add to provide a more definitive picture. One of those layers is USG (urine specific gravity) which determines how dilute a cat's urine is - coupled with other layers, it can point to CKD.

There is an SDMA test, which is more important in looking at the potential for a cat to develop CKD and is typically done over years to see an upward trend before considering CKD might be occurring. You might ask your vet about this test. Persistent testing is needed for all these elements (creatinine, USG, SDMA, etc.) before concluding CKD is happening, especially in young cats.

I doubt your cats have CKD. The best you can do is continual monitoring to see unfavorable changes - which may take years, if ever, to happen. Btw, for those who do think raw diets can lead to higher levels of creatinine, the consensus is that does not mean it will lead to CKD - so, that is a plus on your side!

 

[lwndlnd]

Precise ranges can vary from lab to lab, so it is best to use the range that your lab lists with the results. As an average of norms, creatinine can be anywhere from 40 - 180. But creatinine is rarely used as the sole determinant in CKD, as such the IRIS offer additional layers of testing to add to provide a more definitive picture. One of those layers is USG (urine specific gravity) which determines how dilute a cat's urine is - coupled with other layers, it can point to CKD.

There is an SDMA test, which is more important in looking at the potential for a cat to develop CKD and is typically done over years to see an upward trend before considering CKD might be occurring. You might ask your vet about this test. Persistent testing is needed for all these elements (creatinine, USG, SDMA, etc.) before concluding CKD is happening, especially in young cats.

I doubt your cats have CKD. The best you can do is continual monitoring to see unfavorable changes - which may take years, if ever, to happen. Btw, for those who do think raw diets can lead to higher levels of creatinine, the consensus is that does not mean it will lead to CKD - so, that is a plus on your side!

I pretty much sure we don’t have SDMA testing yet, but I’ll ask my vet next time. Thank you! She also said about creatininerotein ratio in the urine, so we’ll be doing that next. And I’ll ask about USG as well.

I will be definitely monitoring these numbers, my anxiety disorder could never allow me to leave it be. And I love my cats too damn much to think “ugh that might be raw food ”. Just trying to learn some new information and find people with the similar experience to calm myself down just a little bit.

Thank you so much! You’ve been really helpful and sweet. I hope everything is fine with you and your kitties

 

[lwndlnd]

I pretty much sure we don’t have SDMA testing yet, but I’ll ask my vet next time. Thank you! She also said about creatininerotein ratio in the urine, so we’ll be doing that next. And I’ll ask about USG as well.

I will be definitely monitoring these numbers, my anxiety disorder could never allow me to leave it be. And I love my cats too damn much to think “ugh that might be raw food ”. Just trying to learn some new information and find people with the similar experience to calm myself down just a little bit.

Thank you so much! You’ve been really helpful and sweet. I hope everything is fine with you and your kitties

Oh shit I’m new to this so I didn’t realise it would turn some of the symbols to emoji I meant urine creatinine to protein ratio

 

[FeebysOwner]

Oh shit I’m new to this so I didn’t realise it would turn some of the symbols to emoji I meant urine creatinine to protein ratio

LOL! I knew what you meant, and that is another good test! It's usually additional to standard blood work, but the USG is normally part of a typical urinalysis.

 

[lwndlnd]

Precise ranges can vary from lab to lab, so it is best to use the range that your lab lists with the results. As an average of norms, creatinine can be anywhere from 40 - 180. But creatinine is rarely used as the sole determinant in CKD, as such the IRIS offer additional layers of testing to add to provide a more definitive picture. One of those layers is USG (urine specific gravity) which determines how dilute a cat's urine is - coupled with other layers, it can point to CKD.

There is an SDMA test, which is more important in looking at the potential for a cat to develop CKD and is typically done over years to see an upward trend before considering CKD might be occurring. You might ask your vet about this test. Persistent testing is needed for all these elements (creatinine, USG, SDMA, etc.) before concluding CKD is happening, especially in young cats.

I doubt your cats have CKD. The best you can do is continual monitoring to see unfavorable changes - which may take years, if ever, to happen. Btw, for those who do think raw diets can lead to higher levels of creatinine, the consensus is that does not mean it will lead to CKD - so, that is a plus on your side!

Hi there!
Can you help me interpret these results? Cause I’m only speaking to my vet tomorrow and I’ve been freaking out. One of my cats has USG at around 1.020, protein in urine 0.3. The other one’s USG is 1.025 and protein is the same. Is this normal USG for a hydrated pet on raw?
I can’t understand creatinine numbers tho, cause urinalysis was done in the regular (non-vet) lab, so I will try to understand. For now just concerned about USG

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi there! Can you help me interpret these results? Cause I’m only speaking to my vet tomorrow and I’ve been freaking out. One of my cats has USG at around 1.020, protein in urine 0.3. The other one’s USG is 1.025 and protein is the same. Is this normal USG for a hydrated pet on raw? I can’t understand creatinine numbers tho, cause urinalysis was done in the regular (non-vet) lab, so I will try to understand. For now just concerned about USG.

First off, the lab ranges of your vet's lab are applicable to determining what is and is not normal regarding both the USG and the protein. Using the ranges from my lab (Antech) those USGs are on the lower side, which means dilute urine. Protein in the urine can sometimes point to bacteria and/or infection. However, having said all that, I have very limited knowledge about raw diets, so I cannot tell you what they can impact in terms of urine test results. I suspect they can to some degree. A higher hydration level in a raw diet may have some impact on urine dilution, but to what extent I do not know.

Your cats are so young, that unless it is genetics involved - assuming they are related, it would seem pretty unlikely they have kidney disease. I truly believe you need to learn more about raw diets and their impacts. Here is a good place to start if you are not already aware of this site - Raw Feeding for IBD Cats - Feline IBD. It is NOT just applicable to cats with IBD, but healthy cats as well who are fed raw diets.

There is a UPC test, 'urine protein to creatinine' ratio that can be done alongside a urinalysis that will check for the ratio between the two elements. It shows how much protein is being expelled through the kidneys. The higher the UPC, the more protein being expelled, can also point to kidney issues, but it might also be a factor in raw diets as well as far as I know.

Ask your vet about the USG, the urine protein, and the UPC. While they may not have a good educational assessment about raw diets, they should at least explain if there is reason for concern and if so, what they would recommend in terms of additional testing.

 

[Ogcatlady]

I just wanted to thank you so much for this post! I was very stressed about the iris range being different than the normal ranges provided by our lab and this response put me at ease. Thank you so much for the knowledgeable response and great info. I was worried I wouldn’t be able to sleep tonight from anxiety but now I feel at ease. Thank you!!

Precise ranges can vary from lab to lab, so it is best to use the range that your lab lists with the results. As an average of norms, creatinine can be anywhere from 40 - 180. But creatinine is rarely used as the sole determinant in CKD, as such the IRIS offer additional layers of testing to add to provide a more definitive picture. One of those layers is USG (urine specific gravity) which determines how dilute a cat's urine is - coupled with other layers, it can point to CKD.

There is an SDMA test, which is more important in looking at the potential for a cat to develop CKD and is typically done over years to see an upward trend before considering CKD might be occurring. You might ask your vet about this test. Persistent testing is needed for all these elements (creatinine, USG, SDMA, etc.) before concluding CKD is happening, especially in young cats.

I doubt your cats have CKD. The best you can do is continual monitoring to see unfavorable changes - which may take years, if ever, to happen. Btw, for those who do think raw diets can lead to higher levels of creatinine, the consensus is that does not mean it will lead to CKD - so, that is a plus on your side!