He wanted to bite me!

[bunnelina]

We have a 14-year-old Persian, Snalbert. He is usually very sweet-tempered and vocal, and never seemed to have a mean bone in his body.

We also have a 15-year-old Persian and two 5-month-old kittens. Everyone generally gets along really well. There's very minimal hissing from the older cats even when the kittens are hogging their food bowls, trying to play with them, etc. More often than not, we find all four sleeping on our bed together. We feel very lucky that the older cats adjusted so well.

But....

Snalbert had calicivirus for a month, and we were giving him an appetite stimulant, Cypro. This can make cats agitated. So when I discovered Snalbert biting our other older cat, twice in two weeks, I figured that's what his problem was. Our vet agreed, especially since the Cypro was making him unbelievably vocal, too. We took him off it.

Within a week, he seemed more normal but in the meantime he had bitten one of our kittens the same way. He simply sank his teeth into her and kept them there, vampire-style. I heard her complaining and made him get away from her. He did.

But now he's been off Cypro for two weeks. And for two nights in a row, he's woken up from napping peacefully beside my husband and me on the couch as we're watching movies, snapped at us, and tried to bite us. He sank his teeth into my husband's sleeve and wouldn't let go. It was scary. He nearly did the same thing to me last night but I jumped off the sofa and distracted him with food.

What's going on? He gets wild-eyed, snaps at us, is very "aroused" (sexually, but he's neutered, of course) and then he sinks his teeth into whoever is nearby and just leaves them there.

Any thoughts? Does Cypro take this long to wear off? He is definitely "not himself" when he's doing this — he seems like a totally different cat.

Thanks!

 

[strange_wings]

I have no experience with cats on that drug (I hope to never have to). But my suggestion is you talk with your vet and make sure nothing else is going on. Maybe the vet could refer you to a behavioralist that has experience with cats. If not that, see if there's one that will consult with you via phone?

Go through the standard things to lower stress in the home for cats.

I assume the little girl 5 month old is spay already?


ETA: Ah cyproheptadine. Now it sounds familiar. Like other drugs in the same category it has uses as a antipsychotic in humans - it also effects serotonin (receptors to be exact). My guess, is that like in people, it could take a while for side effects to completely go away.

 

[farleyv]

I just googled Cyproheptadine. There is alot of information on line. Quite a few of the sites mention aggressive behavior but not the length of time to get out of the system. One however mentioned a build up of the drug in the cat would effect how long it took to leave the cat's body.

I can imagine how hard it is for you to go through this with your cat who has been your buddy for all these years. He doesn't understand either why he is feeling like this.

Try going on some of the major veterinary schools web sites. University of Minnesota or Cornell in Ithaca.

I hope he and you can get some relief from this nasty side effect. I just thought maybe being a pure bred, his system is more sensitive to this kind of thing? Thats just a guess on my part. Hope your vet can get a handle on this.

Keep us posted.

 

[shanynne]

Originally Posted by Bunnelina

We have a 14-year-old Persian, Snalbert. He is usually very sweet-tempered and vocal, and never seemed to have a mean bone in his body.

We also have a 15-year-old Persian and two 5-month-old kittens. Everyone generally gets along really well. There's very minimal hissing from the older cats even when the kittens are hogging their food bowls, trying to play with them, etc. More often than not, we find all four sleeping on our bed together. We feel very lucky that the older cats adjusted so well.

But....

Snalbert had calicivirus for a month, and we were giving him an appetite stimulant, Cypro. This can make cats agitated. So when I discovered Snalbert biting our other older cat, twice in two weeks, I figured that's what his problem was. Our vet agreed, especially since the Cypro was making him unbelievably vocal, too. We took him off it.

Within a week, he seemed more normal but in the meantime he had bitten one of our kittens the same way. He simply sank his teeth into her and kept them there, vampire-style. I heard her complaining and made him get away from her. He did.

But now he's been off Cypro for two weeks. And for two nights in a row, he's woken up from napping peacefully beside my husband and me on the couch as we're watching movies, snapped at us, and tried to bite us. He sank his teeth into my husband's sleeve and wouldn't let go. It was scary. He nearly did the same thing to me last night but I jumped off the sofa and distracted him with food.

What's going on? He gets wild-eyed, snaps at us, is very "aroused" (sexually, but he's neutered, of course) and then he sinks his teeth into whoever is nearby and just leaves them there.

Any thoughts? Does Cypro take this long to wear off? He is definitely "not himself" when he's doing this — he seems like a totally different cat.

Thanks!

Hhmmm very interesting. You mentioned he seems "aroused" as in sexually, even though he's neutered. It could be a bunch of things. Perhaps the meds are taking longer to wear off so he is still being affected by them. Although after two weeks they should be out of his system but it is possible that it is taking a wee bit longer.


It could also be that with the new kittens around he is trying to re-establish his leadership position and is doing this by biting. Now the fact that he sinks his teeth in and does not get more aggressive is a good sign, at least based on what you have described. IE, biting the kitten vampire style and holding her there, is definitely a sign of domination.


When cats bite their owners, some more aggressively than others, it is sometimes their way of saying "You belong to me." Usually though, these kind of bites are "love bites" not bites the way you have described. But I have heard of some cats that do bite their owners the way you have described, but there is no malice or aggression behind their intent when they do so, they are just more aggressively dominant cats.


It could also be that the calicivirus is not completely cleared up and he is still in pain and maybe very sensitive?


This may sound strange but if he is biting you suddenly from when he was sleeping while you guys were watching TV, could it be that a sound on the TV startled him? Or maybe he was having a nightmare?? He could also be trying to tell you "Hey I'm here!"


You should definitely have him seen by your vet again if his behavior worsens. In the meantime, I would shower him with *lots* of love and attention and watch him carefully. I take it you are planning to have him seen by the vet again soon.


And make sure you disinfect the area where he bit you carefully, especially if he drew blood.

 

[bunnelina]

Thanks for your insights.

He was on a very small amount of Cypro for just about three weeks, I think. We have given it to another, smaller Persian twice a day for more than a year and it doesn't seem to affect her at all.

I should have also said that he's done something like this in the past. When he was sleeping and my husband woke him by petting him, he'd snap and try to bite my husband's hand. Naturally, I told my husband to let the poor cat sleep (!) and that stopped happening. But this behavior is the same except that he wakes up on his own, in a temper.

I should also mention that the kittens have ringworm, which is like having a small-scale Biblical plague. All four cats are getting dipped at the groomer in lime sulfur, and they come home reeking like gunpowder. Our vet wondered if the strange smell initially caused him to attack the two females, but now he's trying to bite us. (Actually, we smell of it, too... as does the whole apartment.)

He's had a lot of blood work recently because of the virus, and he gets six-month senior wellness check-ups, so the vet doesn't think it's a medical issue. She suggested Feliway, but I suspect it could trigger my asthma; all of those electric oil thingies do.

Because of the ringworm, we can't spay our female kitten yet. We're hoping to have her three negative cultures by early January, and then we'll do it immediately. She'll be close to 6 months then and I'm praying she doesn't go into heat beforehand. Our cats are strictly indoor and both males are neutered.

 

[strange_wings]

I only had one cat at the time I had to deal with ringworm. No dipping though he did get more baths. He was put on medicine to help clear the ringworm up.

Every animal and human is different as far as meds go. For example, meds in the same class as that cypro affect me badly. I can't have them. But others, and even animals are fine.

I was mostly speculating whether his serotonin levels (or the receptors themselves) could have been adversely affected. Anyone who takes any sort of drug affecting these usually has to come off those drugs carefully - otherwise there's some sort of withdrawal symptoms. I don't think there's anyway whatsoever that your vet could check this.
If that was affected you'd get a kitty with unstable moods and even less ability to handle stress. (same as with people)

 

[bunnelina]

Hi strange_wings, farleyv, and Shanynne,

Thanks again for helping me find some clues to this furry riddle.

It's hard to imagine that my fluffy, big old baby of a Persian is trying to "dominate" us, but you make a very good case for it, Shanynne. I tend to forget my cats are animals! He was never Top Cat, but maybe he'd like to be. There must be some meaning in the single, long-lasting bite he wants to inflict on all of us.

The kittens like him and want to play with him; they are polite and wary around him now. The older cat that he attacked has been hissing and smacking him — giving him warnings lately.

I do wonder why he wanted to bite us immediately after he's been asleep. We weren't watching anything exciting on TV, it was a Charles Dickens miniseries, on our 15" laptop!

I suppose there could be lingering Cypro, but it's been almost 2 weeks since we stopped.

We're treating the ringworm with oral meds, too, but they aren't known to have behavioral side effects. This cat was pilled with terbinafine for 2 weeks, ending about 2 weeks ago.

The weird thing is, he does seem to be back to his old self 99.9% of the time. It was obvious to me that he was agitated during his recovery, when he was finally feeling more sociable (he and a kitten were pretty sick for a solid month). It took me about two days after he bit my older cat to realize the cypro was probably responsible. And I thought he was fine within 6 days of stopping the cypro. I'd be surprised if it's still in his system and affecting him.

I also don't think he's in pain from calicivirus. For a month, he was limping and had throat inflammation and mouth sores — there's nothing like that now. He's his usual loud-mouth, sociable self.

Hmm, I was giving him buprenophine injections for pain twice a day for about 2 or 3 weeks, too — I'll have to see what that can do.

If this keeps up, I will take him to the vet, but she's seen him quite a bit already lately.

Thanks again, I feel I'm getting closer to unraveling this, with your help. Keep those theories coming, please!