Having a hard time introducing new kitty to my herd

sadiesdad

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I have a female that is 7, and a male that is 6, they have never been good friends. Lily lost her sister at one year old, and we got Jethro a couple weeks later, he was three months. I kept him in our bedroom for a few weeks, before bringing him out. Lily hiss a few times, and that was it. Jethro used to aggravate her like a pesky little brother, jumping almost on her back, throwing his paws wide. he used to do the same to us, when he was close to a doorway, he would jump out at you, throwing his paws wide, as if he was trying to surprise, or scare. Sometimes they got a little rough with each other, but otherwise were okay. Here lately I have worried Lily is bullying him, when we aren't around....Twice in the last month, he has had a place on his thigh, the hair was sticking up, and it was a sore spot, she had to have done it. For some reason, Jethro has always been afraid of a lot of things, you sneeze, he runs, Fedex backup beeper sounds, he runs, the neighbor's fire up the lawn mower, he runs and hides....I hope Lily hasn't caused this. Jethro's mom was hit by a car when he was real small, so he was bottle fed by vet techs. He doesn't know, or have some kitty characteristics, because he never knew his mom...he doesn't know how to make bread, he rarely noses at all, he isn't a lap sitter, but he will sit with both of his front legs across my leg and lay against me. He doesn't like you getting close in his face at all, whereas Lily will let you kiss her on the head, face or wherever.
About 3-4 months ago, this kitten, I thought was maybe 6 months old, would come around 3-4 days, then leave for 2-3 weeks, then come back again. She was skin and bones, so I started feeding her, she has stayed her for about 5 weeks now. I wasn't sure we wanted another, but what to do? I took her for her shots, they shaved her belly, and said there was no scar like she had been fixed, and that she was between 1-2 years old.
I kept her in our spare bathroom/wash room on our enclosed back porch for a week. I bought multi cat Feliway and put in two rooms, took a sock and rubbed her, and our two other cats, and left it for them to smell. Jethro and Lily used to watch her outside with me, and smell me when I came in, Jethro would stand at the door and paw at the window, or jump at her, when she came up to the window on the door. they also came face to face a couple of times, when I was trying to go in, or out. One day, one of our cats came to the bathroom door, while I was in there with Daisy (that's what we have named her). there is about and inch and a quarter gap under the door, in the middle, because it;s an old house. They pawed it, and she went to the crack, and peeped under, then rolled on her side and back exposing her belly, and sticking her paws under the door.
The other day, we decide to let them meet, so I brought Daisy into the living room, Lily was behind the kitty condo, and Jethro was sitting in the doorway from the living room, to the dining room. Immediately, Lily started growling and hissing, but she stayed behind the condo, Jethro eased more into the doorway, and just watched wide eyed. Next, I was shocked, Daisy rolled on her side and stretched out, submissive like, lightly pawing, and pulling herself along the floor. She got even with Lily, and nothing happened, Jethro was still just watching, no growling, hissing or anything. Then out of the blue, Daisy jumped up, made a beeline for Jethro and jumped on him, he ran into the dining room, in front of his bed, and she charged and jumped on him again. Jethro ran out on the back porch, and climbed the stepladder, onto the cabinet (It's a kitchen cabinet someone put there with a counter top on it, they love to sit up there and look outside). Dasiy came to the ladder, and started slowly up howling as she went, Jethro was wailing by then. She kept on, until Jethro was backed into the corner, and he was standing on the window ledge. Daisy kept coming and yeowling, until she got on the counter top right in front of him, then calmly walked over to the water dish, and drank.
Then, what made me angry, was poor Jethro came down the ladder, ran into the living room, and every time he got near Lily, she hissed and growled at him too...he didn't know what was going on. Later that night, and the next morning, Lily still kept growling and hissing at Jethro, when I tried to give them snacks. I haven't even given them snacks together since then, because I don't want a repeat. I put Daisy back in the bathroom, I let her out onto the porch in the mornings, while Lily and Jethro are sleeping. Then put them on the porch in the afternoon/evening, and let Daisy roam the house for awhile. I'm just waiting, not sure what else to do, I sure don't want a repeat of that again. I feel so bad for Jethro...Another thing is, when he was younger, he used to sleep on the bed with Lily, or nap with me and Lily. Then it got to where he wouldn't get up there, and if Lily was already up there, and he jumped up there, she would jump down and leave. I know there is some jealousy, but I try real hard to treat them both the same. I play with them both,brush them both, give them snacks at the same time, tuna juice when we have it...
 

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So, is Daisy fixed or not? If she is not, hormones can wreak all sorts of havoc.

Regardless, there is an adjustment dynamic going on. Lily is re-directing her aggression toward Jethro, that is likely more to do with Daisy. Jethro is a timid cat, and both Lily, and now Daisy, know that. So, he becomes their target.

I know you gave a lot of details, but it seems there are still some missing pieces - for example, can Lily and Daisy deal with each other, OK?

I don't know if you have sought out possible solutions in any of the TCS articles - on the chance you have not, here are some to consider looting at.
Re-Directed Aggression In Cats: Insight And Solutions - TheCatSite
Do Cats Get Jealous? (And What To Do About It When They Do) - TheCatSite
16 Top Cat Experts Share Tips For Dealing With Timid Cats - TheCatSite
How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat [A Guide] - TheCatSite
 

Mamanyt1953

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One thing you can do that wiII heIp Jethro gain some confidence is to pIay with him, aIone, with a wand toy, such as Da Bird. ALL pIay in cats is practice for the hunt, and successfuIIy hunting, catching and kiIIing even a toy prey wiII buiId his confidence and make him seem Iess of a target for your more confident girIs.
 
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sadiesdad

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According to the vet, she has no scar, so evidently she isn't fixed...I thought for sure she would of went into heat before now, at her age....
Jethro and Lily are back to normal now...this morning, she run past him to get snacks, and he swatted at her. Also he will come to her, and lower his head, and she will lick his head and face...but she will sneak, and bite him on the neck, which causes chaos...lol She did the same thing to her sister.
We don't know if Daisy and Lily can deal with each other. There was no direct contact between them when in each others presence. I think Daisy knows better than to attack her like she did Jethro. Lily constantly growled and hissed, Daisy just crawled by her, and ignored her.
No, I haven't read any of that....I'll take a look at it.

So, is Daisy fixed or not? If she is not, hormones can wreak all sorts of havoc.

Regardless, there is an adjustment dynamic going on. Lily is re-directing her aggression toward Jethro, that is likely more to do with Daisy. Jethro is a timid cat, and both Lily, and now Daisy, know that. So, he becomes their target.

I know you gave a lot of details, but it seems there are still some missing pieces - for example, can Lily and Daisy deal with each other, OK?

I don't know if you have sought out possible solutions in any of the TCS articles - on the chance you have not, here are some to consider looting at.
Re-Directed Aggression In Cats: Insight And Solutions - TheCatSite
Do Cats Get Jealous? (And What To Do About It When They Do) - TheCatSite
16 Top Cat Experts Share Tips For Dealing With Timid Cats - TheCatSite
How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat [A Guide] - TheCatSite
 
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sadiesdad

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One thing you can do that wiII heIp Jethro gain some confidence is to pIay with him, aIone, with a wand toy, such as Da Bird. ALL pIay in cats is practice for the hunt, and successfuIIy hunting, catching and kiIIing even a toy prey wiII buiId his confidence and make him seem Iess of a target for your more confident girIs.
I mostly play with Jethro, Lily isn't so interested...and the only thing Jethro will pay attention to is a boot string. We have went through a few strings since he was a kitten. He likes to chew on them, and after a few minutes of play, he will grab the string and run in the kitchen with it, and drop it in his food bowl, or drag it out on the porch, where he thinks I can't get it. Many times, he will drag the string in front of the bathroom door, so when I come out, I will see it. I have bought several types of toys, even an electronic remote controlled mouse...they watch it interested for a little while, may slap at it a time or two, and that's it. Any kind of toy on a string, or with feathers, Lily will chew them up in no time.
 

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I'm going to leave this one to the experts that have already posted and are already trying to help. Just wanted to say that when your nervous cat seems to have a tender area, make sure to part the hair and look for a wound. Bite wounds are nasty and get infected, and are a sign that you have a more significant problem than you thought. Scratches are generally nothing, and cats can get them from play accidents.

But, and I think this may be important here, sometimes nervous cats can give themselves a "hot spot" -- and I believe the area you mentioned would be a prime place for that. A "hot spot" is basically a nervous stress-related habit, like a human adult sucking a thumb (my brother did that) or picking at their hair or similar. If a cat licks and picks at an area enough, the hair can fall out, and the cat can give itself serious irritation. If you dont see any sort of wound, and the cat is constantly licking at that area, you might have a hot spot forming, and this can be a sign that the intro-related stress is worse than you realized.
 
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sadiesdad

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Also, we have two cat condos, one we just bought a few months ago. The first one we had, when Lily and her sister were little, Lily never really cared for it. Then Jethro came along, and he took charge of it, he loves to get in the top perch and sleep, this has been for the last 5-6 years. Now all of a sudden about a month ago, Lily will get up on a platform under the perch, so Jethro can't get up there. It drives him crazy, he will pace back and forth, glaring at her.
 
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sadiesdad

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I'm going to leave this one to the experts that have already posted and are already trying to help. Just wanted to say that when your nervous cat seems to have a tender area, make sure to part the hair and look for a wound. Bite wounds are nasty and get infected, and are a sign that you have a more significant problem than you thought. Scratches are generally nothing, and cats can get them from play accidents.

But, and I think this may be important here, sometimes nervous cats can give themselves a "hot spot" -- and I believe the area you mentioned would be a prime place for that. If a cat licks and picks at an area enough, the hair can fall out, and the cat can give itself serious irritation. If you dont see any sort of wound, and the cat is constantly licking at that area, you might have a hot spot forming, and this can be a sign that the intro-related stress is worse than you realized.
This was a scratch, it had the hair "mussed" in that spot...When I gently touched it, trying to see it, Jethro kind of made a snapping motion, telling me to leave it alone, it's sore. He had already had one a few weeks before, and I eventually had to comb the tuffed up hair out, because it kind of knotted up. And we had seen Lily all of a sudden, just jump him, and bowl him over. He never gets upset being handled for medicine, shots or anything, he is very docile. Lily on the other hand, is a big pain in the fanny...I have to put a towel over her head to even put flea meds on her. When I try to get to her neck, she will point her nose to the ceiling, with her head straight up, so I can't reach her neck.
 

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This was a scratch
Great. If I understand correctly, the one cat was trying to play, and the nervous cat which wanted no part of that got scratched. An accident in other words. So I think we can disregard the scratch and focus on the introduction, which the others are trying to help you with.
 
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sadiesdad

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Great. If I understand correctly, the one cat was trying to play, and the nervous cat which wanted no part of that got scratched. An accident in other words. So I think we can disregard the scratch and focus on the introduction, which the others are trying to help you with.
No, there was no playing, Lily just all of a sudden jumped him, and bowled him over. He hollered, and jumped up and ran away from her, somewhat afraid to get close to her for a bit.
 

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No, there was no playing, Lily just all of a sudden jumped him, and bowled him over. He hollered, and jumped up and ran away from her, somewhat afraid to get close to her for a bit.
Right ok, on re-read I see she has been hissing and growling. So stress-related on the part of both cats I guess.
 

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According to the vet, she has no scar, so evidently she isn't fixed...I thought for sure she would of went into heat before now, at her age....Jethro and Lily are back to normal now.
Some cats experience 'silent' heat, so just because you can't tell it is happening in a more obvious manner, doesn't mean it isn't still going on.

Long story short - Feeby 'found me' around the age of 2. Due to family circumstances, she wasn't spayed until about 6 months after that. She never displayed any outward signs of being an intact female. So, I know it can happen. You may ask the vet about testing her to see her hormone levels indicate that she could be intact. If she is indoor only, the worry isn't as great about her getting pregnant, but the risks are higher for certain cancers related to the reproductive system as she ages.

Glad to hear Jethro and Lily are more back to normal. There still may be bouts of aggression as the introductions progress, but it sounds like it will subside over time.
 
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sadiesdad

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What about if I put Jethro in the bedroom, and let Lily and Daisy get to know each other first, so they don't torment him?
 

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That's certainly a valid idea. One-on-one introductions can be much easier. Now, I'd be sure to allow Jethro and Lily to have time together each day, so that their "peaceful co-existance" does not deteriorate.
 
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sadiesdad

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That's certainly a valid idea. One-on-one introductions can be much easier. Now, I'd be sure to allow Jethro and Lily to have time together each day, so that their "peaceful co-existance" does not deteriorate.
I was kind of thinking of putting Jethro in the bedroom for a couple hours, and let Daisy and Lily mingle...then put Daisy back in the bathroom, and let Jethro out withLily.
 
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sadiesdad

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Well, it's not working too well...been letting Daisy and Lilly be around each other, Lily still hisses and growls, finds a place to hide behind something. Daisy keeps trying her, rushing at her, yeowling, Lily just sit there and ignored her.
Eventually Daisy lunged at Lily, and chased her into the bedroom and she got under the bed, Jethro was sprawled across his bed, but not asleep. I let Daisy in, and she kept looking at Jethro, walking around where he was, but not getting close, when she did, he would hiss, and she kept her distance. He had one leg sprawled across his bed, to the one beside him, like Mr. Cool dude...I thought we were making progress...
Then Daisy went into the bedroom for a little bit, then Jethro came cautiously walking through the living room, then the foyer, headed toward the bedroom. All was quiet for a few minutes, then Jethro came running out of the bedroom with Daisy right behind him. They ran onto the back porch, and Daisy jumped him twice. She had him cornered kind of, and was sitting waiting for him to move, ready to pounce again. I had to break it up.
I had to put Daisy in her room, Lily was very upset, wouldn't come out from under the bed, growling. Poor Jethro got over his quick, and went looking for Lily. He acted like he was concerned, but every time he got close to Lily she started hissing at him, and he would back away. He hung around in the bedroom with her, keeping his distance. I went back in there, to try and coax Lily out, he followed me, and just laid beside the bed, watching her. I was afraid to put them to bed, in their room like usual, so we just left all the doors open. After a bit I woke up with Lily laying on me, and Jethro on top of the chifforobe. My wife has got a torn rotor cuff, and was hurting, got up and went into the living room....both kitties went in there with her, she said they were pacing the floor a bit, but then settled down...with Lily on the couch with her, and Jethro in his perch on the kitty condo.
I felt so bad for them....and I had just gotten a bottle of confidence spray from that Jackson Galaxy guy...sprayed a couple spurts around Jethro's bed, and where he goes under the chair to sleep...I thought it might be working, the way he looked unconcerned laying in his bed, when Daisy came in.Neither of my kitties have experience fighting other cats, both were raised in the house by us from kittens, with only each other to play/fight with...That worries me...and too, Lily is 14 pounds, and big, and Daisy is 9 pounds, but Lily seems to be scared of her too....Lily and Jethro were back to normal this morning, at snack time, she licked his face, as he bowed his head to her.
 

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Daisy is rocking the boat and putting the other two cats ill at ease and stressed. Any of what you have perceived about Lily possibly bullying Jethro is most likely what is called re-directed aggression - Lily redirects her anxiety over Daisy onto Jethro. When the anxiety passes, then the two of them can get along. Earlier in this thread, I shared an article about it.

Find out from the vet what the cheapest way there is to test her to see if she is or is not spayed. I honestly think that this has to be done so you know for sure. As said before, if she is not spayed, she should be to see if that calms her down - and, also as said before to help protect her from reproductive related cancers as she ages.

Once that is done, and she has healed, then you can see if that helps the dynamics any. If it doesn't, you may be back to Square One in terms of introductions.
 
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sadiesdad

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We are in the process of getting Daisy spayed...we sent off for a certificate from the state for a reduced fee spay certificate last week. I hope we can make the Oct. 14th date. Our vet said he didn't think she was spayed, and I trust his word. She is so affectionate to us, but not the other kitties. I held her in my lap in her room this morning, and she drooled all over my pants...lol
 

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.That worries me...and too, Lily is 14 pounds, and big, and Daisy is 9 pounds, but Lily seems to be scared of her too...
Size doesn't matter much in the animal world. And in the cat world, even less. It is ALL about the catitude. To give an example of this, I have a friend who is a zoologist. He specializes in wolves. He also lives with one, who cannot be released into the wild due to injuries. The wolf lives very happily with him, two dogs, and three cats. One of the cats rules the house. I've seen that cat walk up to the wolf's dinner dish, push her muzzle out of the way with one paw, eat what she wanted of the wolf's food, then stroll away, allowing the wolf to finish her dinner. And the wolf accepts the cat as the alpha of her pack. Catitude.
 
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