Guesses on parents?

[taylamo]

Hello, all. Was wondering if you could help me narrow the field a bit as far as our Lila's parentage? She is a pointed kitty--I think a tortie point, but you tell me--and she came from a colorful litter of solid blacks, tabbies, and a tortie. She was a much lighter cream-color when we adopted her at three months, and now at about 16 months, she has darkened considerably. I don't know much about cat genetics, but looking at her litter mates, I figured you might be able to guess what her parents may have looked like.

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• taylamo
• Jan 5, 2016

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• taylamo
• Jan 5, 2016

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• taylamo
• Jan 5, 2016

 

[taylamo]

My recent photo of Lila didn't post. I'll try again

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• taylamo
• Jan 5, 2016

 

[kitty kisser]

I've heard kittens from the same litter can have different fathers so the other kittens maybe half siblings. Just saying.

 

[Willowy]

I'm gussing the non-tortie kittens are boys. . .so that would mean momcat is dark and daddycat is red. Neither was pointed or half the kitten would be pointed, but obviously they both carried the pointed gene. No white. As for whether momcat was solid black or tabby, no way to tell since she had both :tongue2:.

 

[taylamo]

Thanks, Willowy! So interesting! The striped kitten on the bottom right (Spice) was female, and I think she is a torbie as I see some orange in there. So the 3 girls all had a variation of tortoiseshell: one full, one pointed, and one mixed with tabby. Now, question: what in cat genetics prevents mom from being a tortoiseshell also?

Thanks for helping narrow this down. Our 2 other cats are former strays, so we don't know anything of their background. Seeing this entire litter at the shelter, we figured someone could help us speculate on mom and dad with educated guesses, anyway. Their mother wasn't at the shelter. They were found motherless under the crawl space of a house, according to Lila's file.

 

[StefanZ]

I've heard kittens from the same litter can have different fathers so the other kittens maybe half siblings. Just saying.

Its true, but probably not as common as many thinks. Because the different looks can usually be explained by quite basic knowledge of cat color genetics.  Its "just" to know enough of it.  And some of the color genetics IS quite bysantine = complicated and not easy.

 

[Willowy]

what in cat genetics prevents mom from being a tortoiseshell also?

She could have been tortie but the odds are strongly against it. In cats, color is associated with the X chromosome. Since boys have only 1 X chromosome, they get all their color from their mom. Girls get 1 color gene from each parent. So the boys are dark, that means they got the dark coloring from their mom. The girls got dark coloring from their mom and the red coloring from their dad. Torties can pass on either dark or red to their kittens. So the chances that a tortie would pass on ONLY the dark gene to all 6 kittens are very low. If she were tortie the odds are that at least 1 kitten would be all red.

 

[taylamo]

That makes so much sense! Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me.

 

[StefanZ]

Her eyes dont seems to be very blue on the photo?   Or are they blue?

Her being already as kitten quite dark, and eyes not very blue, comes to my mind an extra twitch:    the most common with points is a double gene of the siamese point type, giving "a siamese mix".

But its not unique, they have mixed genes - one point gene of the usual siamese gene, and one of the burmanese point gene.  - This gives points whom darken up over the whole body already as kittens, and usualy the eyes not very blue.    While "siamese mixes" may darken up if their point color is dark, but they dont get really dark before they are older adults.

Once you had learned this possibility DOES exist, and itsnt unique, you see this combination not so seldom, so to speak.

But points with double burmanese gene, whom looks as burmanese look alike, arent common, its true.   After all, siameses were more common than burmaneses, are are so even more now.

But burmneses were quite popular in the fifties, before all the modern cat breed were developed. And at that time neutering wasnt that common, and they were often allowed to go out, even purebred.  So these genes are now widely floating in the gene pool of domestic cats.

 

[StefanZ]

I've heard kittens from the same litter can have different fathers so the other kittens maybe half siblings. Just saying.

I've heard kittens from the same litter can have different fathers so the other kittens maybe half siblings. Just saying.

 
Its true, but probably not as common as many thinks. Because the different looks can usually be explained by quite basic knowledge of cat color genetics.  Its "just" to know enough of it.  And some of the color genetics IS quite bysantine = complicated and not easy.

Here in this tread we have one nice example.  Two toms whom mated, lotsa different looks, but after some analysis and further explantions it becomes clear, its almost surely tom nr 2 whom is the biological father to the whole litter.    Tom nr 1 is just an Ex, a cousin, and hopefully a foster co-father.  

 

[taylamo]

Yes, her eyes are blue. They are what I would call an ice blue...kind of light. Her pupils are often dilated, so it's sometimes hard to tell their color in pictures. Her eyes shine red in the dark, which I was quite surprised by her first night home when she ran into the dark kitchen and turned to look back at me.

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• taylamo
• Jan 8, 2016

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• taylamo
• Jan 8, 2016

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• taylamo
• Jan 8, 2016

And here is a picture of her from this morning:

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• taylamo
• Jan 8, 2016

She certainly has changed in her looks over the year. As a kitten, her fur was mostly white with odd, gold-colored strands mixed in. They looked almost sparkly. Looking through old pictures, the darker coloring is noticeable by around 8 months. And her points have all darkened, too. One back foot was almost all white as a baby, and now it is speckled with dark brown or black.

So, StefanZ, perhaps Burmanese and Siamese both in her ancestry? Now I'll have to google Burmanese and see some pictures! Thanks for the information.

 

[StefanZ]

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• taylamo
• Jan 8, 2016

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• taylamo
• Jan 8, 2016

And here is a picture of her from this morning:

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• taylamo
• Jan 8, 2016

She certainly has changed in her looks over the year. As a kitten, her fur was mostly white with odd, gold-colored strands mixed in. They looked almost sparkly. Looking through old pictures, the darker coloring is noticeable by around 8 months. And her points have all darkened, too. One back foot was almost all white as a baby, and now it is speckled with dark brown or black.

So, StefanZ, perhaps Burmanese and Siamese both in her ancestry? Now I'll have to google Burmanese and see some pictures! Thanks for the information.

That must have been quite a shock, even a little unpleasant.  This kitty suddenly flashing with red eyes at you!   So she is blue eyed.

I didnt noticed she is not longer a kitten, but 16 months.  Also, being a very dark point - black?  Its natural for her to darken up.  Even if it has gone quicker than for most.

Its possible I jumped the gun, she isnt a burmanese-siamese point mix after all, and she is a siamese-siamese point...  We cant know for sure, there are indicies for both.

 probably she is a siamese x 2 after all, but I cant totally rule out she may be sia  x bur    ...

 

[taylamo]

That must have been quite a shock, even a little unpleasant.  This kitty suddenly flashing with red eyes at you!   So she is blue eyed.

It was certainly strange! We thought of the vampire bunny Bunnicula from the James Howe storybooks! We're all used to it now, of course.