Grain Free Koha (canned)—any More Company Info?

[purrsnickety]

Hello everyone

I'd like to switch from Dr. Elsey’s Turkey Pate to Koha (possibly)—similar formula with more variety, sold locally by can or case which is a huge plus other than having to order online. My 1 year old likes it so far but I can’t seem to find any info on the company. No recalls by quick search and comments re customer service are great, but the only thing I’ve read about them besides the products they offer is their food is made in the US with ingredients sourced from New Zealand

Also, Petcurean Shine and Sensitivity duck pate was my immediate fave (he’s tried the Koha Duck too). The only seafood ingredient is dried kelp which is why I considered it, but why would a cat nutritionist include potatoes and sweet potatoes?? I thought it might be for flavor and texture but honestly don’t know anything about quantities. The Duck Pate has no other seafood such as salmon, but their chicken blend includes it and their Fit and Free line as well. Any help with this two pronged question would really be great.

(Duck) (Turkey) (Turkey)
Go! Koha Dr. Elsey's
Crude protein 9% 10.5% 11%
Crude fat 7% 9% 9%
Crude fiber 1% 1% 1.5%
Moisture 78% 78% 78% (plus % magnesium and taurine)

 

[kittyluv387]

Why not feed both? It's always nice to have variety. I personally like Dr. Elseys.

Koha Turkey Caloric Breakdown:
Protein - 29.86%
Fat - 62.15%
Carb - 7.99%

Dr. Elsey Turkey Caloric Breakdown:
Protein - 50.46%
Fat - 38.38%
Fiber - 1.79%
Ash - 5.42%
Carbs - 3.96%

 

[lisahe]

I agree about the variety, plus I think the profile for Dr. Elsey's -- with more protein than fat -- is more favorable than Koha's, if the figures kittyluv387 posted are the ones you do feed and want to feed, purrsnickety .

My personal view of canned foods is that it's good to feed a variety of foods to prevent boredom (this is a big issue with our cats!) and to spread out risks (real and/or perceived) of various ingredients I'd prefer not to feed. Or, in the case of Koha -- our cats love the duck stew -- though it may be fattier than I'd like to feed, it's still okay to feed a can of it every week or so. Things tend to balance out!

For more on proportions of protein/fat/carb, you might want to check Dr. Lisa Pierson's site, Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition – Common Sense. Healthy Cats. -- there's a ton of information there about food.

 

[purrsnickety]

I agree about the variety, plus I think the profile for Dr. Elsey's -- with more protein than fat -- is more favorable than Koha's, if the figures kittyluv387 posted are the ones you do feed and want to feed, purrsnickety .

My personal view of canned foods is that it's good to feed a variety of foods to prevent boredom (this is a big issue with our cats!) and to spread out risks (real and/or perceived) of various ingredients I'd prefer not to feed. Or, in the case of Koha -- our cats love the duck stew -- though it may be fattier than I'd like to feed, it's still okay to feed a can of it every week or so. Things tend to balance out!

For more on proportions of protein/fat/carb, you might want to check Dr. Lisa Pierson's site, Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition – Common Sense. Healthy Cats. -- there's a ton of information there about food.

I had above Koha 10.5% vs Elsey's 11% (probably should have fixed that info). Koha has a 2% higher difference in fat and added carbs with pumpkin and cranberries—but that’s not like potatoes or sweet potatoes. They have a good variety and I’ll definitely give the stew a try. I just really wanted to know more about that company and how long they’ve been around. Thanks for the link!

 

[LTS3]

Koha used to be called Mauri. The company changed name in 2016. The Wayback Machine has the old Mauri web site archived. Here's one of the earliest archives from 2014: MAURI | Super Premium Pet Food

 

[purrsnickety]

I had above Koha 10.5% vs Elsey's 11% (probably should have fixed that info). Koha has a 2% higher difference in fat and added carbs with pumpkin and cranberries—but that’s not like potatoes or sweet potatoes. They have a good variety and I’ll definitely give the stew a try. I just really wanted to know more about that company and how long they’ve been around. Thanks for the link!

Eta 2% difference posted in error, if the figures I posted above are correct both Koha and Dr. Elsey’s have the same amount of fat.

 

[purrsnickety]

Koha used to be called Mauri. The company changed name in 2016. The Wayback Machine has the old Mauri web site archived. Here's one of the earliest archives from 2014: MAURI | Super Premium Pet Food

Thank you! I think they manufacture in the US now. Not much more to read on the old site but I’ll do some searching later tonight under MAURI.

 

[purrsnickety]

Thanks to LTS3 I found a few helpful threads about Mauri cat food here on the site. Looks like they’ve removed most of the gums which was an issue a few years ago.

Right now their duck and turkey pate formulas contain sodium selenite and calcium pantothenate—both undesirable which can also be found in Dr. Elsey’s formula and Go!

IDK, Dr. Elsey's formula came recommended and I’d prefer no seafood at all to the mussels they’ve added; maybe those ingredients aren't considered harmful if at the bottom of the list.. I might venture into making my own food, just not ready yet. I’ll be smelling turkey all year round!

I’d still like to know what quantities of potatoes are included in Go! and exactly why their nutritionist includes it. I’m under the impression those carbs can cause diabetes but I really don’t know enough about cat nutrition. I might have to write them and see what they tell me

 

[lisahe]

Potatoes seem to be used a lot as either thickeners (potato starch) or as protein sources (potato protein).

Potatoes simply do not belong in cat food. (This is both my opinion and our cat specialist vet's opinion!) Cats don't process vegetable protein well and some cats -- one of ours included -- get sick (vomit, in Edwina's case) if they eat potato. There are other Cat Site members whose cats have gotten sick from potato.

I have similar issues with peas, which are also ubiquitous in cat food. Neither of our cats gets sick from peas but there's just no need to feed them to cats. Foods like this "Natural Veterinary Diet" alligator food from Blue Buffalo make me crazy: four ingredients that are derived from peas and potatoes (totaled, these might outweigh the alligator!), and carrageenan to boot. Yet it can call itself grain-free and (I have no idea how, given that none of this is a natural diet for cats) "natural."

Usually the mussels in food are pretty low on ingredient lists (they're after ginger in the Koha duck stew so the amount has to be tiny) and used for omega-3s. They're the least of my worries compared with various carbs and thickeners!

 

[purrsnickety]

Top to bottom—Dr. Elsey’s turkey, Koha turkey, Go! duck

If potatoes aren’t a main ingredient or small amounts I don’t have a problem if they’re cooked. The problem I do have is that Dr. Elsey’s fifth ingredient is listed as “natural flavor”. That’s shady, and my guess is they’ve added potato to Go! for flavor (listed at 5 and sweet at 7). I think they use another binding agent.

Kibble vs canned gets political and I fully understand the pros and cons of both— the Clean Protein kibble was recommended to me over their canned (reasons) BUT I don't know what starch they use for binding or how much.

Hard to find quality canned cat food with no fish but that’s just my preference. I don’t trust it in the food industry and was informed fish causes a lot of digestive issues (besides carageenan). Regardless he hasn’t had any digestive issues as of yet with Dr. Elsey’s nor Koha and it does seem mussels are low on the list of ingredients. Perfect poops def a thing to be happy about.

The two ingredients sodium selenite and calcium pantothenate are included in all three. I’d read somewhere they’re considered harmful.

I guess when you have to weigh it out Natural Flavors can be anything the company doesn’t want me to know

Apologies for the tldr—tend to over analyze and didn’t when I started him on his first brand. Appreciate your posts while I get this sorted out.

 

[purrsnickety]

View attachment 260521 View attachment 260522 View attachment 260523

Top to bottom—Dr. Elsey’s turkey, Koha turkey, Go! duck

Go! Analysis duck not listed above in the label—posting here closer to photo.

Protein 9%
Fat 7%
Fiber 1%
Moisture 78%

 

[LadyLondonderry]

View attachment 260521 View attachment 260522 View attachment 260523

Top to bottom—Dr. Elsey’s turkey, Koha turkey, Go! duck

If potatoes aren’t a main ingredient or small amounts I don’t have a problem if they’re cooked. The problem I do have is that Dr. Elsey’s fifth ingredient is listed as “natural flavor”. That’s shady, and my guess is they’ve added potato to Go! for flavor (listed at 5 and sweet at 7). I think they use another binding agent.

Kibble vs canned gets political and I fully understand the pros and cons of both— the Clean Protein kibble was recommended to me over their canned (reasons) BUT I don't know what starch they use for binding or how much.

Hard to find quality canned cat food with no fish but that’s just my preference. I don’t trust it in the food industry and was informed fish causes a lot of digestive issues (besides carageenan). Regardless he hasn’t had any digestive issues as of yet with Dr. Elsey’s nor Koha and it does seem mussels are low on the list of ingredients. Perfect poops def a thing to be happy about.

The two ingredients sodium selenite and calcium pantothenate are included in all three. I’d read somewhere they’re considered harmful.

I guess when you have to weigh it out Natural Flavors can be anything the company doesn’t want me to know

Apologies for the tldr—tend to over analyze and didn’t when I started him on his first brand. Appreciate your posts while I get this sorted out.

I understand your wariness of "natural flavor," because it's an umbrella term that can mean a host of different things. It can be used to describe flavoring ingredients that don't occur in nature -- they are created in the lab -- but chemically resemble those that do.

But apparently it also can be used to describe ingredients that do occur in nature. This discrepancy is why transparency in labeling is so important -- so that we as consumers know what we are purchasing! One of the reasons I am currently feeding my cat Rawz canned food is that I am really impressed by the company's full disclosure of its ingredient sourcing. When you open up the drop-downs, it states, for instance, that the "Natural Duck Flavor" is sourced from duck liver, and that the "Natural Flavor" is sourced from vegetables. That kind of information is valuable to me as a consumer (who is entrusted with looking out for the welfare of the end user!), and it's often not easy to obtain.

 

[purrsnickety]

“Natural Flavor” could also either be potatoes or fish! It really could be ANYTHING they think might decrease sales. Whenever that's on a label it protects the company from what what they tell you they’ve added at any given time.

I hope I’m not coming across as trying to spark any kind of debate. I over analyze usually before committing and this is all like a puzzle to me.

Is RAWZ manufactured in the US? It looks like good food. The umbrella term though will forever haunt me. It’s not even the reason why I’m switching brands and it should be, I just like the convenience of finding food locally if it’s good.

Looks like Koha and Go! have the most transparency and I agree that nowadays that’s almost non negotiable.

 

[LadyLondonderry]

Is RAWZ manufactured in the US?

Yes -- if you look at their ingredient sourcing page that I linked to above, it says that the food is manufactured in the US and then gives the country of origin for every one of the ingredients used in it.

 

[purrsnickety]

The 3 Best Pet Foods for Your Canine or Feline

Found this earlier today. With a grain of salt of course for whatever reasons.

The novelty wore off on the Koha Duck Pate so omw to get the one from Go! to see if he likes it. It’s the only one from them without seafood and figured I'd add it to whatever else I’m switching to if he likes it.

I’d hoped for more background info on Koha because of that, you know transparency thing At least they’re AAFCO approved, without knowing how strict AAFCO standards are figured that’s a good thing.

 

[purrsnickety]

I think I found what I was looking for but I did email Petcurean regarding their carb content. I’ll post a chart I found—info is about a year old so pretty current I think? FWIW, and I don’t know how reliable the source is.

Read earlier today that the percentage of calories from carbs should not exceed 10% (don’t remember where or even if that figure is accurate) which is how I came upon that chart. So far looks like I’m ok with both those foods. He inhaled the Go! Duck Pate (Sensitivity and Shine) but I’ll be feeding more variety anyway with Koha and whatever else I find. He was probably happy with just his turkey pate, I don’t think he’s that adventurous in the food department

I have the Koha turkey stew to try tomorrow—they were out of duck. If I see any kind of digestive issues will report back, but long term I don’t foresee any issues with either as long as I’m alternating the foods. I guess for as long as those figures are correct!

 

[LTS3]

That's the Catinfo.org chart

Diabetic cats should not have more than 10% carbs in the diet. Non-diabetic cats can have slightly higher carb food, up to 20% or so. Many people, though, prefer to feed non-diabetics less than 10% carbs. Some even restrict carbs to as close to zero as possible but the variety of foods is very very limited. A compromise could be to feed under 10% as much as possible and occasionally feed something higher in carbs for variety. Just my two cents

 

[purrsnickety]

Thanks for the info! Was so happy to read that

His stool hasn’t changed at all either from both the changes in brand and the one other protein with duck and still going regularly.

I forgot to mention that I always added a teaspoon of Dr. Elsey's kibble to his turkey pate of the same brand. That was in hopes of getting him to take to the kibble so he’d have a choice of both and their dry chicken came highly recommended to me. Well I didn’t add it to the duck since he doesn’t need the extra carbs and have given up on their dry by now. Never took to it, but always hoped he might in the event of an emergency or a change in routine since I don’t like leaving out wet food.

Closer to zero would be totally ideal but with the criteria of no seafood (I’m ok with dried kelp) very limited indeed. With the Go! duck pate at 8% was pleased with the option and it’s the first time ever I’d seen him devour food like that, then again that was one long tedious grooming session. I wasn’t doing him any favors by not coming closer to the skin and now we’re both paying for it. Glad I had some wine opened in the fridge!