Got ourselves into potential mishap..

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Threecatstwodogs

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Did you try a ticking clock when he's crying? Or, as you've been doing, have him on your chest when he's crying. Your beating heart calms him :).

That clicking sound isn't constant, is it?

Are you thinking of syringe feeding him? I'm not sure it's necessary unless he begins to refuse the kmr or starts losing weight. You can give the other kitten kmr too :)
They are both getting KMR now and both love it. :) The smallest one eats MUCH more than the larger kitten, often eats more often as well as finishing his own portion and part of his older/larger brothers'. We're thinking about purchasing another heartbeat toy as we had for our GSD when she was an inconsolable puppy. She really loved it and for a while (before teething got the best of her) it was the only toy she wouldn't shred. Kitten seems to want to be on us more now and is much more accepting of petting.
 
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Threecatstwodogs

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I won't say the vet did anything wrong here, since your mom just brought the kittens in to make sure they're generally healthy (which they were at the time), I'm not sure most vets would do testing and stuff in that situation unless the owner asked for it. So I'd take them back to the vet, talk about your concerns, ask for testing, etc.

Some kittens do grow slower than others but I'm kind of afraid this little guy is fading and you don't want that.

I'd give him as much KMR as he wants.
What other tests would you ask for (since we have to be precise with her, our other vet who retired just knew what would be needed without us having to specifically voice each concern) because I am not so good regarding knowledge of specific tests the animal might need, coming from what I would now class as "questionable origins". Also, if he does have some parasite or something, I wouldn't say he was healthy when he got here.. he certainly did not pick up these issues here and saw the vet the day after arriving. We've been giving about a tablespoon each day (concurrent with wet Science Diet and dry) as that's what it recommends for "supplemental feeding" whereas pre weaning kittens it recommends 2 tbsp a day. But of course he is not pre weaning. You don't think it would hurt to let him "free feed" the KMR?
 

Willowy

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You don't think it would hurt to let him "free feed" the KMR?
Nope, wouldn't hurt one bit. Even if the other one drinks it. Kind of like a healthy kid drinking Pediasure---maybe he doesn't NEED it but it's not going to hurt.

The usual tests are for FIV/FeLV and a fecal test for parasites.
 

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Also, just to update, we purchased a kitchen scale from Walmart, with the largest platform we could find (some are tiny) and I went and picked it up and it says he is about 2.50 lbs. Better than we thought. Hopefully this is a more acceptable weight.
How much does the bigger kitten weigh?
 

posiepurrs

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Will your scale allow you to put a bowl on it and zero it out? If so you can weigh the kitten more easily that way. That is what I do. Unless your adult cat is a mountain lion , that much weight loss is scary.
 
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Threecatstwodogs

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Will your scale allow you to put a bowl on it and zero it out? If so you can weigh the kitten more easily that way. That is what I do. Unless your adult cat is a mountain lion , that much weight loss is scary.
I have tried the bowl thing for the smallest kitten and it works well. My big lump of an adult would certainly not fit well in such a bowl, even though it is rather spacey. The problem is we don't know the previous weight now for comparison because the vet "lost it" but then came to the 2.80 lbs loss conclusion. Which I don't understand. How all of this came about was that one day I noticed him looking a noticeable amount smaller. His face had thinned out and his body looked closer to the size of when he was youthful.
 
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Threecatstwodogs

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Nope, wouldn't hurt one bit. Even if the other one drinks it. Kind of like a healthy kid drinking Pediasure---maybe he doesn't NEED it but it's not going to hurt.

The usual tests are for FIV/FeLV and a fecal test for parasites.
I figured it wouldn't be harmful to the other kitten, but you're saying it's ok to give as much KMR as he wishes to drink for the smaller one? (I.e. don't measure it) Just to be sure?
And I mentioned that to my Mom about getting those tests, but apparently since the cattery has claimed "negative" for all Sires/Dams they don't test the kittens? The thing is, the breeder has studs and Dams from outside the cattery that aren't her own but she leases or whatever to breed hers to.. surely this would call for more testing as outside cats are intermingling.
 

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I figured it wouldn't be harmful to the other kitten, but you're saying it's ok to give as much KMR as he wishes to drink for the smaller one? (I.e. don't measure it) Just to be sure?
And I mentioned that to my Mom about getting those tests, but apparently since the cattery has claimed "negative" for all Sires/Dams they don't test the kittens? The thing is, the breeder has studs and Dams from outside the cattery that aren't her own but she leases or whatever to breed hers to.. surely this would call for more testing as outside cats are intermingling.
It's not harmful for any cat to consume KMR, unless they are overweight and the extra calories would be harmful. You can also try goat's milk if you can get it and your cats like it.

As far as the tests, if the cattery has tested all their sires and dams for FeLV/FIV, and they have all other cats tested before they enter the cattery, it isn't really necessary for them to test each kitten for FeLV/FIV. Many breeders require tests for outside cats entering the cattery for breeding. If you are concerned, you can certainly have the kittens tested for FeLV/FIV at your vet.

Is the kitten still having diarrhea? If so, I would personally consider doing a fecal PCR panel. That is a good way to try to diagnose persistent problems with diarrhea. You can call your vet before doing the test and see how much they charge, if it's really expensive you can also do it yourself and send it to UC Davis lab. Your vet can also do a "fecal float" which is cheaper and fast, but doesn't test for everything.

As far as the weights are concerned,
  • Weigh the smaller kitten regularly and keep a record to see if it is gaining, losing, or flat. What does its body condition feel like? Strong and muscular? Or does it feel bony, weak, limp? Does the kitten appear to be dehydrated (try the pinch test on its scruff)? How is its appetite? Activity level?
  • How is the bigger kitten in terms of body condition, activity level and appetite?
  • How about your adult cat? If he has lost a bit of weight and looks youthful, that might not be a bad thing if he was overweight, it depends on his body condition. Does he feel bony or weak? Does he appear dehydrated? How is his activity level and appetite?
 
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Threecatstwodogs

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It's not harmful for any cat to consume KMR, unless they are overweight and the extra calories would be harmful. You can also try goat's milk if you can get it and your cats like it.

As far as the tests, if the cattery has tested all their sires and dams for FeLV/FIV, and they have all other cats tested before they enter the cattery, it isn't really necessary for them to test each kitten for FeLV/FIV. Many breeders require tests for outside cats entering the cattery for breeding. If you are concerned, you can certainly have the kittens tested for FeLV/FIV at your vet.

Is the kitten still having diarrhea? If so, I would personally consider doing a fecal PCR panel. That is a good way to try to diagnose persistent problems with diarrhea. You can call your vet before doing the test and see how much they charge, if it's really expensive you can also do it yourself and send it to UC Davis lab. Your vet can also do a "fecal float" which is cheaper and fast, but doesn't test for everything.

As far as the weights are concerned,
  • Weigh the smaller kitten regularly and keep a record to see if it is gaining, losing, or flat. What does its body condition feel like? Strong and muscular? Or does it feel bony, weak, limp? Does the kitten appear to be dehydrated (try the pinch test on its scruff)? How is its appetite? Activity level?
  • How is the bigger kitten in terms of body condition, activity level and appetite?
  • How about your adult cat? If he has lost a bit of weight and looks youthful, that might not be a bad thing if he was overweight, it depends on his body condition. Does he feel bony or weak? Does he appear dehydrated? How is his activity level and appetite?
My Mom is taking them both in today, I'll have her ask for the fecal PCR. The diarrhea seems to have gotten better but both kittens poop is UNUSUALLY smelly. Has an odd smell to it too, as in it doesn't just smell like normal poop. Maybe this could just be because they're kittens? Not sure.
The smaller kitten doesn't feel weak but there isn't much to him, he still feels like a "baby" where as the other kitten has grown to a size where he feels like an older kitten/adolescent/teenager now.
As for his weight: Smaller kitten was weighed on a kitchen scale on April 22nd, 2020. I came up with 2 lbs 5.2 oz.. I weighed him yesterday on April 27th, 2020 and he was 2 lbs 5.8 oz. Now this is assuming that a small $20 kitchen scale (the best I could find in store) works. His appetite is crazy, as I've stated he can eat all of his own portion and then some of the older/larger kittens. His activity level is playful, but perhaps not as wild as when he first got here, and also he has been napping more and more at regular intervals, he gets exhausted much faster and will just sort of flop over on his side and sleep for quite a while (not the two minute cat naps the older kitten takes). There were two days my Mom thought he seemed "out of it", lethargic, and not very playful. For most of both of those days.

The bigger kitten seems to be healthy, he has a decent appetite and also is enjoying the KMR now, he feels like a larger cat and an older cat now in his body as more body parts grow in and he gets more lanky, you can feel the joints and the volume of a kitten who is hitting the adolescent/teenager stage. He is playful just about non stop and rarely naps, sometimes he "power naps" for about a minute or two and then he is back to his wild man self. He has a very sweet and loving side and can be just the biggest lovebug. Whereas the smaller kitten, all though he has accepted humans more and is no longer nearly as scared as he was, still is not nearly as seemingly socialized as his larger counterpart.

Adult kitty was a bit overweight before, but he dropped the weight in what seemed like a day and his face looks aged and drawn in now. He is still spending time outside during the day as he always has. (We never broke this habit after we found him on the streets in a woodsy town more than ten years ago, the vet estimated he was 8 months old and had been outside for a very long time. Nobody claimed him all though we tried very hard to find his owner. He was in really bad shape so after an unsuccessful hunt to find somebody who he belonged to, we kept him and nursed him back to health. He looked nothing like the kitten we first found.) He is still a big talker, he loves to have conversations. He has gotten MUCH pickier with food. Will eat some dry Science Diet, but only licks the gravy off the wet. We have been trying everything. He used to like the FreshPet chunks and gravy as a treat with my last two adults but won't eat it anymore. He used to finish his own serving and the rest of everyone else's. We are now crushing the chunks in the TOTW wet and adding a little hot water to mix in, this seems to have had the best effect. I've tried Weruva, I've tried Best Friends Natural, these are things he would have loved years ago and will now gulp down once and stick his nose up at every other time. I have a feeling he does not like food once it's been in the fridge.

Thank you all for all your help, I will give an update after the vet's today.
 

Willowy

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Well, that's a lot better than being 1.28 pounds at 12 weeks, although still underweight. Hopefully he's just a bit behind and will catch up.

Is there a way you can get the vet to do bloodwork on the older cat?
 

GoldyCat

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Have you checked your older cat's mouth? When one of my cats was losing weight I discovered he had such bad gingivitis and stomatitis it must have been painful to swallow. As soon as I had his teeth taken care of and got the stomatitis cleared up he started eating again and gained back the weight he needed.
 
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Threecatstwodogs

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I have an update, but before I go typing it, if I just post the update without replying to you guys individually, does everyone still get notified that there's been another post? Or do you have to "quote" it so they know?
 
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Threecatstwodogs

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Well, that's a lot better than being 1.28 pounds at 12 weeks, although still underweight. Hopefully he's just a bit behind and will catch up.

Is there a way you can get the vet to do bloodwork on the older cat?
My Mom doesn't want to press the vet to do another "work up" on the older cat because when he went in recently she claimed he was healthy. But it seemed as though it was only poking and prodding and doing a visual exam. I don't think he's gained any of that previous weight back but I've found a way to mash his wet up that he seems to like and eat more of, as well as the dry he's been consistent with. He still has decent energy during the day but gets VERY sleepy at night. His haunches are beginning to get that older kitty bony feel, ever so slightly. We aren't sure of his exact age but he may be about twelve or thirteen years old.
 

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Everyone who is watching the thread gets an update that there has been another post. By default, people are set to watch a thread if they have posted a message in it.

If you want to reply to a specific person and you want to make sure they see it, you can either quote that person's post, or mention them by name with an "@" sign and their user name, and it will come out like this: T Threecatstwodogs
 
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Threecatstwodogs

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Have you checked your older cat's mouth? When one of my cats was losing weight I discovered he had such bad gingivitis and stomatitis it must have been painful to swallow. As soon as I had his teeth taken care of and got the stomatitis cleared up he started eating again and gained back the weight he needed.
When the vet has looked in his mouth (at the last visit) she didn't seem to see anything wrong. His breath occasionally has a fishy smell to it but for the most part no smell to his breath and he does eat the fish flavored food.
 
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