Good Low-Phosphorus Pates & related questions

FeebysOwner

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Feeby's phosphorus count on her last two blood tests (Dec & just this past week) are high - 6.2 and 6.3 respectively. While these numbers are within the 'normal' range (2.4 - 8.2), I have read that an adult, especially elderly, cat's readings are really better if they are closer to 4.0 (sources: felinecrf.org & [email protected] | Home).

Given that her last urinalysis (also this past week) noted the Renal Tech Index indicator as "Positive" - in that she will likely will develop chronic kidney disease within the next 24 months, I thought perhaps it would be best to lower her phosphorus intake now. Although, the readings used to determine a Positive status confuse me because all but one are well within normal range - BUN (high), Creatinine, WBC, & Urine PH/Protein/Specific Gravity, as well as age. Phosphorus isn't even included as part of that analysis.

For what it is worth, she is currently on H-T meds and has been since last October.

So, my questions are:
Has anyone else started feeding low phosphorus foods with a reading similar to Feeby's?
If so, how was that determination made?
What pate type foods have you tried to give to your cats with low phosphorus content? (Note: not seeing much on the above noted web site's food charts.)
Have you obtained results?

Thanks - any insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated!!
 

Furballsmom

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Hi!
Somewhere I read, and it was stated with some emphasis it seemed to me, that lowering the phos isn't something a person wants to do unless kidney disease has actually been diagnosed - I don't know if this is true?
Is there something else an owner can do to stop the disease from developing?
Not to send you away from this site but does Dietary Management - Feline CRF , or Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat or their support group, have any information or discuss this?
 

mrsgreenjeens

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Have you discussed this possible food change with yoru Vet? I would start there before doing anything. I think they are your best resource on this topic, since as Furballsmom Furballsmom said, it's not good to reduce phos. if they don't actually have kidney disease (at least that's what I've always heard)

As far as preventing kidney disease, not sure you can do that, but since I've had three kidney cats, I'm very paranoid about it, and test our senior cats twice annually, including SDMA. Our Vet says just make sure they stay plenty hydrated. There ARE kidney supplements out there you could try to give her. Just google it. Don't know if they work or not, but it might make you feel better :wink:
 
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FeebysOwner

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Furballsmom Furballsmom & mrsgreenjeens mrsgreenjeens - thanks for your input.

I guess perhaps I am 'jumping the gun'. Is it after the Renal Tech Index indicator points to an upcoming chronic kidney disease that an SDMA is run? Is that what I am missing? I know that the Renal Tech Index is relatively new, but what prompted SDMA testing to be done before the Renal Tech Index came into being?

I will talk to my vet about that aspect, but would be curious mrsgreenjeens mrsgreenjeens what provoked SDMA testing in your case(s)?
 

Jem

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https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

I referenced this chart when looking into low/lower phosphorus foods. This list is of everyday cat foods, and although you don't want to jump the gun too much with a "therapeutic" low phosphorus food, it might not be that bad to introduce some of the foods that have a slightly lower content, but still nutritionally complete.
 
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FeebysOwner

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Jem Jem , thanks! I looked at that chart and got totally confused - but, it was after nearly a whole day of researching this whole phosphorus issue. I'll take another look with fresh eyes.

I only thought I might be jumping the gun given Furballsmom Furballsmom and mrsgreenjeens mrsgreenjeens responses. I thought low phosphorus would be something I could do to help Feeby, and both of the web sites I mentioned above suggested her readings are really too high. However, I have not yet discussed any of this with her vet.
 

Jem

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I looked at that chart and got totally confused - but, it was after nearly a whole day of researching this whole phosphorus issue. I'll take another look with fresh eyes.
Yeah, it's a bit confusing...:think::dunno:

The actual list of foods, starts on page 5. (the link I gave you is the PDF version) It's in alphabetical order, so If you feed Fancy Feast for example, you need to scroll down to page 14. The Chicken Feast is listed to have 430/100kcals, where as the Turkey and Giblet is 355/100kcals. But both foods are fine foods for every feeding...as long as the type of protein is accepted by kitty...but one just has a slightly lower phosphorus content. If the food is still nutritionally complete I see no harm in choosing some of the low"ER" ones. But that's just my opinion.

On the far left, which is in grey, is the name of the food. At the top, in big letters, it will tell you the brand, then the following names are the different flavors/proteins. Then the next three columns are Protein/Fat/Carb %s, Then the phosphorus content by 100Kcals, then the calories per 5.5oz can...unless otherwise specified (some don't come in 5.5oz cans)

Hope that helps.
 
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FeebysOwner

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Just thought I would update from the perspective that the food charts - either Tanya's or Lisa Pierson's are so incomplete, or outdated, that over half of what I feed Feeby isn't even included. Can't even make comparisons in order to determine what I could add to her diet that is lower in phosphorus, just for one meal a day. I guess I would have to reach out to all the companies myself to find out, assuming they would offer that information.
 

Furballsmom

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oh that's not good, I won't be recommending either of them any longer. I'm so sorry!
 
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FeebysOwner

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oh that's not good, I won't be recommending either of them any longer. I'm so sorry!
I probably should have included that the foods on the list (Tanya's) that Feeby does eat almost all include an asterisk stating that the numbers are "minimums for protein, fat and in some cases phosphorus" - meaning that they can be much higher than noted. So, that is also not very helpful. But, the dates for most listings are from late 2019 through early 2020, so not entirely outdated. Tanya's list also does not include Nutro, Iams, or Purina of any type including Pro Plan and True Nature.

There are a lot of foods listed, so it may still be valuable to others. But, it should probably be noted when sharing the link that there are also a lot of foods missing.

Pierson's chart doesn't seem to have been updated after 2017.
 
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fionasmom

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FeebysOwner FeebysOwner Thank you for that observation of the lists. I spent most of Monday at small privately owned pet stores or upscale chains trying to match the food with the list to find some non prescription food for Jamie. One store, where they employees are actually trained in food content and use, brought me to a section which was not even listed. I am sure that the lists are done by individuals who are doing the best they can but it was pretty frustrating.

As for SDMA, Jamie, who had a "kidney failure in 24 months on the RTI, has never had that test. I am going to request it when he goes in for his next ultrasound which I am currently scheduling....or find out why the vet has not done it.
 
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FeebysOwner

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fionasmom fionasmom - just so you know the H-T forum called the SDMA test "questionable", as did my vet. Might be why your vet has not bothered with it either. As I said before, elderly cats will almost always test Positive on the RTI - at least from what my vet told me. Forgive me for not recalling, how old is Jamie?
 

fionasmom

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FeebysOwner FeebysOwner Thanks for that info. My vet is really pretty sharp but had not had a history of doing anything that she felt did not give worthwhile results, so that might be part of it and I will ask her.

Jamie is not yet 4, and his kidney mystery manifested itself 2 years ago. :(
 
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FeebysOwner

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FeebysOwner FeebysOwner Thanks for that info. My vet is really pretty sharp but had not had a history of doing anything that she felt did not give worthwhile results, so that might be part of it and I will ask her. Jamie is not yet 4, and his kidney mystery manifested itself 2 years ago. :(
Based on how so very little I know as this point, I think an SDMA would be warranted in Jamie's case. Keep us posted on what your vet says!
 

Furballsmom

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Hi!
I've had to do some research of my own due to Poppycat having a little bit of a head twitch, and one time getting up from a nap his hind legs got a bit "tangled". Nothing huge in themselves, and his kidney numbers have been slightly elevated but not changing for a while... (fingers crossed they stay that way).

Anyway, in the process of that I found this research and wanted to let you know about it, --it's the reason I'm posting in the forums today;
Evaluation of phosphorus, calcium, and magnesium content in commercially available foods formulated for healthy cats

Which is to say, I'm now definitely in Jem's thought process of not using high phosphorus foods/varieties.

Regarding Felinecrf, catinfo and these sources below (not saying they're wonderful or not, just that they were useful for my purposes), I found a couple brands that I won't be using for Poppycat any longer, and I've replaced them with others that are lower.

Here's a different version of the same catinfo chart that might be easier to work with;
Cat Food Chart from catinfo.org

Renal Food for Cats with Kidney Disease | Only Natural Pet

Kidney Disease Archives - The Crazy Cat Lady Tips
 
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FeebysOwner

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The low phosphorus food search has pretty much been a bust for me so far.

But, I did find a more recent type of phosphorus control being used - niacinamide - a specific form of vitamin B3 that is not a binder but works by blocking the uptake of phosphorus instead. It seems it is starting to be thought of as a good alternative to the binders that have been more commonly used. One of the H-T forum members shared an article with me about it and I thought I would share it with all of you. Disregard the article's headline title that suggests the information is somehow related only to cats on raw food diets. I will be discussing this option with Feeby's vet.
 

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fionasmom

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Thanks for posting that. It is very interesting and I am going to discuss it with Jamie's vet when he has his US on May 10
 
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