Frustration

[aurorabee]

Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble...
I am still grieving, so this is probably where this is coming from...
but I keep thinking about veterinary care. I recently lost one of my beloved soul cats. She was strictly indoors, taken to regular vet appointments, and received regular bloodwork and vaccinations up to date. I thought I was doing the right thing. I have read recently that some of these vaccines can cause the chronic GI issues and other health issues.

My other beloved cat lived to be so much older and 'lived at risk' in her younger days (let her go outside) and did not receive regular vaccines. She was a bit of a warrior though, so probably an outlier (example: she let my dad remove porcupine quills without flinching). I know it's reductive to make the case on that but I just can't help it. This has shattered my trust. You play the second guessing game in your mind. I know at the end of the day, sometimes it just comes down to the roulette of genetics too. Maybe if I focus on that it will bring some comfort. You want to rely on the knowledge of professionals...but...

But going forward I wonder if I should stop future vaccinations for my other adult cat? She is also an indoors only cat but sometimes if we do cat boarding or grooming I need to show her up to date records.

 

[heyitskevinn]

Everyones gonna punch me in the face and toss me down a flight of stairs; throwing a lit match overtop of me for saying this.......... But........ I've had more success with unvaccinated animals than vaccinated animals. There, I said it. None of my unvacinated pets have ever dropped dead out of the blue, suffered from weird disease..... But also, I don't feed kibble or prescription crap----i mean, catfood. Haha.

 

[aurorabee]

Everyones gonna punch me in the face and toss me down a flight of stairs; throwing a lit match overtop of me for saying this.......... But........ I've had more success with unvaccinated animals than vaccinated animals. There, I said it. None of my unvacinated pets have ever dropped dead out of the blue, suffered from weird disease..... But also, I don't feed kibble or prescription crap----i mean, catfood. Haha.

Yes, I think I need to completely rethink nutrition. May I ask what you feed them?

 

[heyitskevinn]

Yes, I think I need to completely rethink nutrition. May I ask what you feed them?

Nutrition is the foundation of health - the first building block. If it's not there; the whole little tower comes crashing down. Slowly and ominously, or quickly and shockingly.
I feed homemade, with Tiki Ct After dark about weekly, but tiki is being weaned out.
Here's valuable information

Feline Natural (canned) seems decent..............er..... Everything else sucks though, I'll spare you the sugarcoating
look into hommade- you'll be glad you did!
The raw subforum has great resources

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I think genetics play a role, so that part can never be ruled out as having an impact on any cat. But, I do believe that an indoor only cat doesn't need routine vaccinations, especially after they hit a certain age. My vet stopped vaccinations when Feeby (now 15+ yo) was probably around 8-10 and just after that she had her last rabies shot. But, Feeby only leaves our home for her semi-annual vet visits, she is never boarded or has any type of professional grooming. While everything besides rabies is not mandatory, a vet can exempt a cat from even the rabies shot if they deem it to be no longer appropriate for that cat.

I don't have much to offer on the nutrition side of this, as all of my cats were fed dry food - even Feeby until I started giving her canned food about 2-3 years ago. Feeby has also been on prescription food since she had to have bladder surgery at the age of 5 for oxalate stones, which have - knock on wood - kept her stone free since. Feeby is also considered to be in pretty good health for her age, according to my vet.

 

[BlackCatOp]

I’m sorry to hear about your kitty. It’s amazing how much a bond we can have with them.

First, vaccines are a debated topic in veterinary medicine. I will address more on vaccines below.

Secondly, be careful about correlating anecdotal evidence. For example, my dad has smoked cigarettes for over 50 years and does not have any major health problems. Anecdotally, I could come to the conclusion of “my dad has smoked for decades, and it never produced any significant illness. The health claims about smoking are exaggerated and false.”

I hope you can see how silly my statement is. It is human nature for us to think if B follows A then A must cause B. However, correlation does not necessarily prove causation. Just because your outside and unvaccinated cat lived longer than your inside and vaccinated cat does not indicate vaccination is the cause of shorter life.

Regarding vaccinations in the US. There is a movement to only vaccinate cats every three years after the kitten series.. The con to this suggestion is the thought owners will not bring their cats in to the vet for an annual wellness if vaccines are not needed. Your kitty still needs to be seen at least annually.

I am on the thought less is more when it comes to vaccines. My indoor only cats received their complete kitten series as kittens die readily from panleukopenia however, as adults I only vaccine every 5 years. I also make sure the vaccine type used is “cat safe” meaning it is adjuvant free. Working with your vet to determine risk vs benefit when it comes to vaccinations is important. Vaccines, just like any other medical intervention, needs to be tailored the individual so your veterinarian should be willing to discuss a vaccination schedule that works for you and your cat.

 

[LTS3]

If you're in the US, rabies vaccination is required for cats. If you board the cat, you will need to have an up to date rabies vaccination record. Grooming doesn't usually require a rabies vaccination but for the safety of the employees, it's best to have your cat up to date on rabies just in case your cat bites an employee out of fear or stress.

 

[kittenmittens84]

If you're in the US, rabies vaccination is required for cats. If you board the cat, you will need to have an up to date rabies vaccination record. Grooming doesn't usually require a rabies vaccination but for the safety of the employees, it's best to have your cat up to date on rabies just in case your cat bites an employee out of fear or stress.

Surprisingly, there are actually a lot of states that don’t require rabies vaccines for cats. California for example

 

[Willowy]

Surprisingly, there are actually a lot of states that don’t require rabies vaccines for cats. California for example

Yes, it may not be legally required but your cat will still be put down if they bite someone and aren't up-to-date on their rabies vaccine.

Grooming doesn't usually require a rabies vaccination

Hmm, the grooming salons here do. For dogs at least.


I know it's fashionable to hate on vaccines, and I personally don't vaccinate the indoor cats very often, but my childhood cats were fully vaccinated every year (FVCRP, rabies, AND FeLV), ate only dry food until they were old, and they both lived to be 21, healthy until the end. I haven't had any who have lived that long since (mostly 17-19, one was 20). So. . .everybody has an anecdote but I don't think vaccines are harmful unless someone is allergic (and the small chance of an injection-site sarcoma).

 

[kittenmittens84]

Yes, it may not be legally required but your cat will still be put down if they bite someone and aren't up-to-date on their rabies vaccine.

Yeah, and most vets will strongly strongly advise that you do get them - I was just surprised to learn that it wasn’t required by law a while back when I was getting ready to travel with my cat. He gets the 3 year one to cut down on the number of shots which is fine by me; my concern with yearly cat vaccines is about the injection part not the it being a vaccine part because my little guy has already gotten a lot of shots in his short life haha

 

[MissClouseau]

I'm 100% pro-vaccine for kittens. Their immune system is getting newly programmed and vaccines immensely help. But, whether to give booster vaccines or not in their adulthood, how often to do that and for how many years --- these should be calculated for every individual case in my opinion. That's what the vets in Turkey do too. Nothing is risk-free, and not getting boosters have a chance of increasing the viruses in the society, but the least risky option for an individual cat depends on the cat. Same reason you may find very different outcomes from different people. Viruses that can get fatal like FeLV, FP... these are not the same level common everywhere, for every living situation. And whether the cat already has a condition or not should be a factor but unfortunately not everyone gets their cats tested for coronavirus, FIV, etc

My other beloved cat lived to be so much older and 'lived at risk' in her younger days (let her go outside) and did not receive regular vaccines.

In addition to different genes, this also means she got exposed to more bacteria and virus. That's the upside and downside of going outside for every animal including humans. We are more likely to get sick when we get exposed to more bacteria/virus which is risky. But on the good side, the studies for humans also suggest that keeps the immune system working and stronger.

 

[fionasmom]

Everyone has their own experiences. I have never fed dog food to any of my dogs and have always prepared their meals.....for multiple years and dogs. No one ever had cancer except current GSD Orlando who got melanoma but that type of cancer originates in the melanin in their skin. It appeared on a completely hair covered part of his body and he is/was an entirely indoor dog except for walks.

I have never prepared cat food as I think it is much trickier and the few times I have had to for an older ailing cat I had to supplement which made me uneasy. Of course, if someone is comfortable with feeding homemade to cats, that is great. Cat survival ages have varied from 2 years old to 17 years old and I do agree that genetics has something to do with that as no one was ever hit by a car or died by any accident....all illnesses. One poor boy was clearly exposed to something when he was still on the street and it got him within the year.

I never over vaccinate cats. My personal cats are indoor only and I only vaccinate when they are young. I did regularly vaccinate all my dogs as I once faced parvo with a rescue and a friend had a disastrous experience with distemper; however, I have stopped with current boy given that he is very old with other medical conditions. I tried to get the rabies waiver from LA county but they refused, which they do more than 50% of the time with dogs.

 

[aurorabee]

I’m sorry to hear about your kitty. It’s amazing how much a bond we can have with them.

Secondly, be careful about correlating anecdotal evidence. For example, my dad has smoked cigarettes for over 50 years and does not have any major health problems. Anecdotally, I could come to the conclusion of “my dad has smoked for decades, and it never produced any significant illness. The health claims about smoking are exaggerated and false.”

Of course, that's very true. I know the cognitive tricks we can play. I know the internet can also be a confirmation bias exercise (i.e. we usually only see the stories when things don't go well, not when things are 'business as usual' or go well)

 

[aurorabee]

I know it's fashionable to hate on vaccines, and I personally don't vaccinate the indoor cats very often, but my childhood cats were fully vaccinated every year (FVCRP, rabies, AND FeLV), ate only dry food until they were old, and they both lived to be 21, healthy until the end. I haven't had any who have lived that long since (mostly 17-19, one was 20). So. . .everybody has an anecdote but I don't think vaccines are harmful unless someone is allergic (and the small chance of an injection-site sarcoma).

I know - the above kind of sums up my childhood experience with our cats. We didn't have access to 'fancy' or 'boutique' types of food. The pet wellness industry wasn't even thing (separate topic: the pet wellness industry can be utterly depressing after you've lost a dear cat. I've subjected myself to the madness of thinking "if only this type of supplement could have saved her". Not healthy for anyone).

I should have prefaced by stating that I am totally in favour of kittens receiving the full spectrum of vaccines, it was more the constant routine ones afterwards - for indoor cats. I may ask my vet in lieu of regular vaccinations for blood panel or titer testing if they are worried about losing money.

I live in a remote area where there are no legal requirements for any vaccinations, including rabies ,but the cat boarder place has made it their policy so I were ever to use that service again. My main goal is wellness and health for future pets.

I was chatting with my mother and she reminded me that the sister (whom they adopted) of my recently departed cat had died at age 3 from congenital disease and that sadly that family may just not have had the heartiest health overall.