Food allergies

[maves]

I was feeding my cat home-prepared raw food for a couple of years, and she did great on it... until she didn't. First she developed an allergy to eggs, then to the chemicals in store-bought chicken. Beef made her stools soft, and rabbit she didn't tolerate at all. And now she's become allergic to chicken. I think it's because I didn't give her enough variety. So what do I do next?

Right now I'm giving her freeze-dried turkey and duck/goose, but her stools are round and getting more whitish, which is making me concerned. I thought maybe she wasn't getting enough water, but she's peeing a lot. It's a bit like what happened when she had rabbit. I don't know if it's the duck or the Stella & Chewy brand. Her stools are better when she has Weruva canned food.

I'd like to try fresh raw food again. Are there any kinds that tend to be better for cats? She was ok with turkey and quail before. What about pork, venison, elk, guinea fowl, or antelope? If I order ground mixes of those, what do I do about chunks?

She is also scratching her ears again. It went away when I gave her better quality chicken before. Is it seasonal, or food allergies?

One vet suggested that she will continue to develop allergies to different proteins, and that I should give her a hydrolized diet. I hope it doesn't come to that. I've started giving her slippery elm bark and probiotics every day, and I'm thinking of giving her S. Boulardi. Is that likely to help any of this?

 

[iPappy]

Hi!
IME, the white-sh stools could MAYBE indicate that there's a bit too much bone in the food for her. Are her stools very hard or difficult to pass?
When she developed an allergy to eggs, chicken, etc., what were the symptoms? Vomiting/diarrhea, itching, etc.?
I have never fed my cats pork or antelope, but they have had venison and elk. My cats that don't handle beef well handle venison and elk slightly better but I have never used it as a stand-alone meal. They seem to do better with poultry but YMMV. (Plus, it's way expensive.)
Turkey is a big protein for my cats as I can find it reasonably priced and my dog does well on it too. I order ground food (most of my cats are older and aren't into chewing a lot of big chunks) but 3 of them still like things like chunks of boneless meat or chicken hearts (some places carry turkey hearts you could use instead.) I order from Hare-Today.com.
All of my cats will eat, and tolerate, a tiny bit of green tripe as well.
If all else fails, Weruva is an excellent brand that I have used many times. I had a dog that got very sick and refused raw, but up until a few days before he passed, loved Weruva. I continue to keep it well stocked and would not hesitate to use it as a stand alone diet again.

 

[maves]

Thank you so much for replying and for the information. This is hard to figure out alone. I will check the next stool to see if it is hard. I read that it could be too much bone or difficulty digesting fat. I've stopped giving her the freeze dried duck and am just doing turkey.

She had different symptoms for each allergy. She started getting loose stools from beef. Diarrhea turned out to be eggs. Itchy ears was fixed with better quality chicken from HareToday. But the rabbit from there gave her white stools followed by vomiting. When the food from HareToday ran out I gave her organic chicken from the store. The latest episode started with a hairball, which after a few days turned into vomiting and then refusal to eat. As soon as I switched her food she was fine, but her stools are now getting grey. Her ears are still a bit itchy, but better since we stopped the chicken. I've been giving her Weruva canned fish, the only kind without chicken or rabbit, but I'm worried about mercury.

She was doing so well with the home-prepared raw. The tricky thing is that I have to buy large quantities to get it shipped to California, and I don't know what she can eat. The rabbit was an expensive mistake. I was going to try some different proteins from Soul'y Raw. Is the chicken from HareToday better than Rosie's chicken in terms of chemicals? Soul'y Raw uses Rosie's.

 

[iPappy]

Was the rabbit you gave her from Hare Today the ground whole rabbit? It's listed at 15% bone, which IME is WAY too high for most cats and is better suited for large dogs. It might not have been the rabbit itself, but too much bone causing an upset or back up of her GI system, which could have still been lingering when you gave her the chicken and saw the hairball. If I buy any grind that has more than about 6-8% bone, I always add extra muscle meat.
I have never tried Soul'y, or Rosie's. If you're in California, have you done a search for co-ops in your area?
Making Cat Food
I don't feed this diet, but I find it very interesting and would consider doing so if I had a cat that couldn't handle raw anymore for whatever reason, provided they eat it.

 

[maves]

I tried mixing the rabbit mix with boneless rabbit, and tried boneless by itself, but she couldn't digest any of it. I also waited for a while and tried again before finally giving up.

The recipe you suggested is the one I started with. Then I decided to save time and stopped cooking the chicken. Do you use something like Alnutrin, or do you add individual supplements for your cats?

I found two co-ops in my area! I had no idea they existed. This is exactly what I was looking for. It's hard raw feeding a single cat, which is why I was giving her only chicken. But now I have a way to try other proteins. Thank you so much for your suggestion.

 

[sophie1]

Yeah I agree, this story doesn't sound like serial allergies but rather problems with high bone content, and maybe weird additives (salt?? injected brine?) in the chicken you were buying. All commercial raw foods have ridiculously high amounts of bone (upwards of 20%), and Stella and Chewy's is one of the worst. White or light colored large poops is how you know the problem is too much bone. Cats can also have diarrhea as a symptom of constipation.

I struggled with one of my cats throwing up regularly after meals. I solved this by giving him boneless food made with EZComplete or Alnutrin with calcium (this requires adding organs) and simple ground chicken or turkey in the morning, then bone-in mixes for the rest of their meals - but with extra meat & organs added to dilute the bone content to no more than 6-7%. The mixes from Hare Today are either 10% or 15% bone, you have to read the information for each product to find out. Either is too much for cats.

I also nixed all commercial foods from their diets....unfortunately, the recipes used by commercial producers are just too capricious and have caused too many problems, not to mention that they typically don't give you full information. I was rather disappointed that when Viva Raw came out with a complete frozen raw cat food, they wouldn't tell me how much bone was in it even when I asked them straight out. Immediate fail, I won't use it.

 

[maves]

Thank you for the information. I will try that. She is still very itchy, which I think is from the additives. It seemed to go away when she had the food from HareToday (I combined 1:1 mix and boneless). The chicken I was giving her most recently was Rosie's, which is what they use at Soul'y Raw. I was also told that Mary's turkey, which I found at the grocery store, is the same as what you get from raw food distributors. Does HareToday use better quality meats with less additives than these other places?

 

[lisahe]

Yeah I agree, this story doesn't sound like serial allergies but rather problems with high bone content, and maybe weird additives (salt?? injected brine?) in the chicken you were buying. All commercial raw foods have ridiculously high amounts of bone (upwards of 20%), and Stella and Chewy's is one of the worst. White or light colored large poops is how you know the problem is too much bone. Cats can also have diarrhea as a symptom of constipation.

I struggled with one of my cats throwing up regularly after meals. I solved this by giving him boneless food made with EZComplete or Alnutrin with calcium (this requires adding organs) and simple ground chicken or turkey in the morning, then bone-in mixes for the rest of their meals - but with extra meat & organs added to dilute the bone content to no more than 6-7%. The mixes from Hare Today are either 10% or 15% bone, you have to read the information for each product to find out. Either is too much for cats.

I also nixed all commercial foods from their diets....unfortunately, the recipes used by commercial producers are just too capricious and have caused too many problems, not to mention that they typically don't give you full information. I was rather disappointed that when Viva Raw came out with a complete frozen raw cat food, they wouldn't tell me how much bone was in it even when I asked them straight out. Immediate fail, I won't use it.

sophie1 , you sum up the problems with commercial raw foods perfectly! I stopped feeding commercial raw to our cats last summer. Lots of pros and cons came into the decision but in the end the high bone content and the companies' unwillingness to divulge bone content tipped me to stop. I also realized that feeding multiple brands meant I was feeding who knows how much other stuff, like pumpkin and probiotics, that the manufacturers add, allegedly to be helpful. I had to wonder, though, if they were working at cross purposes. I don't like the idea of feeding too much pumpkin and I'd rather choose the cats' probiotics myself!

If Stella & Chewy's still made Stella's Selects, which had no bone, I'd consider feeding those foods again but I don't regret stopping the others. Oddly, the cat miss them a lot less than I thought they would.

maves , one thing that's helped keep our constipated cat under control is Vet's Best anti-hairball remedy tablets. S&C's regular foods are, indeed, very high in bone so if you keep feeding those, you may need some backup!

 

[sophie1]

Thanks for posting that lisahe ! I went through almost exactly the same thought process as you. My cats are healthier now and my rugs are happier for not being vomited on so often. And yes....pumpkin may be advertised as a digestive aid, but it's added for the same reason as the large amount of bone: because they're cheap fillers.

Probiotics are an interesting topic. Raw fed cats probably don't need probiotics except when they're just getting started, because there should be a good amount of them in the food already - but of course this has never been studied to my knowledge. I thought about adding a little whey to their food - I get raw milk deliveries, and once it starts to sour I just let it sit out until it separates into cream cheese & whey. The whey is full of probiotics, and it's a great starter for sauerkraut and other home fermented items. I also thought of making my own kombucha or water kefir, if I start doing that I can add the extra scobys/grains to the food. I suspect most probiotics that you buy online or in a store are pretty worthless.

 

[lisahe]

Thanks for posting that lisahe ! I went through almost exactly the same thought process as you. My cats are healthier now and my rugs are happier for not being vomited on so often. And yes....pumpkin may be advertised as a digestive aid, but it's added for the same reason as the large amount of bone: because they're cheap fillers.

Probiotics are an interesting topic. Raw fed cats probably don't need probiotics except when they're just getting started, because there should be a good amount of them in the food already - but of course this has never been studied to my knowledge. I thought about adding a little whey to their food - I get raw milk deliveries, and once it starts to sour I just let it sit out until it separates into cream cheese & whey. The whey is full of probiotics, and it's a great starter for sauerkraut and other home fermented items. I also thought of making my own kombucha or water kefir, if I start doing that I can add the extra scobys/grains to the food. I suspect most probiotics that you buy online or in a store are pretty worthless.

I so agree with what you say about pumpkin! I used to add small amounts of it to the cats' food... mostly for Ireland's constipation. But then, well, you already know what I decided on raw food!

And yes, there are pathetically few studies related to feline nutrition, which is particularly sad given how many cats have serious IBD and other inflammatory issues. I'm very grateful to have stumbled on Adored Beast's Feline Gut Soothe (herbs plus probiotics), which has been an incredible help for Edwina, who's the queen of inflammation. Edwina, her people, and the rugs are all much happier for it!

 

[iPappy]

Thank you for the information. I will try that. She is still very itchy, which I think is from the additives. It seemed to go away when she had the food from HareToday (I combined 1:1 mix and boneless). The chicken I was giving her most recently was Rosie's, which is what they use at Soul'y Raw. I was also told that Mary's turkey, which I found at the grocery store, is the same as what you get from raw food distributors. Does HareToday use better quality meats with less additives than these other places?

I don't think they use any additive in their products, which is why the labels usually say "for intermittent or supplemental feeding only". No additives = not balanced by AAFCO standards. For this type of diet, I find no problem with it.
I read the FAQ when I started using Hare Today back in the early 2010's, so IDK if it's still the same or not. But one of the questions was "can humans eat the boneless grinds?" and the owner said that they were not sold for human consumption, but mentioned that she has eaten them herself. It was IMO a round about way of saying they can't legally sell it as such, but it's perfectly fine for humans too.

 

[sophie1]

Yes, a few years back I found myself looking longingly at things like the chicken chunks, marrow bones, and hearts from Hare Today. I asked the owner the same question and got the same answer. Translation: Yes of course they're fine for humans! Great way to save some money and get really fresh, high quality, pastured meats etc into the bargain.

Many grocery meats are treated with chemical coatings to make them look red & juicy, or brine injections to add weight and improve the flavor. None of these are reported on the label because the USDA doesn't require it. They are often almost putrid when you buy them - take a whiff!! I never feed grocery meat to my cats because of those issues, and in fact the few times I tried they turned up their nose and wouldn't touch it. Smart kitties. Definitely stick to Hare Today, US Wellness, or a trusted local butcher. I bet a lot of meat "allergies" in cats are actually reactions to those additives, or maybe because the meat was rotten. I rarely buy meat for myself from grocery stores, for the same reasons.

Same issue with milk - I can't tolerate milk from the store, but like many other people with that issue, I have no problems with raw milk. Neither do cats - if you remember, Pottenger's raw diet experiment included raw milk. Whatever the problem is that many people have with milk, it's not about lactose....there's something else causing it. Again, could be the "mystery" additives that consumers aren't told about.

 

[iPappy]

Yes, a few years back I found myself looking longingly at things like the chicken chunks, marrow bones, and hearts from Hare Today. I asked the owner the same question and got the same answer. Translation: Yes of course they're fine for humans! Great way to save some money and get really fresh, high quality, pastured meats etc into the bargain.

Many grocery meats are treated with chemical coatings to make them look red & juicy, or brine injections to add weight and improve the flavor. None of these are reported on the label because the USDA doesn't require it. They are often almost putrid when you buy them - take a whiff!! I never feed grocery meat to my cats because of those issues, and in fact the few times I tried they turned up their nose and wouldn't touch it. Smart kitties. Definitely stick to Hare Today, US Wellness, or a trusted local butcher. I bet a lot of meat "allergies" in cats are actually reactions to those additives, or maybe because the meat was rotten. I rarely buy meat for myself from grocery stores, for the same reasons.

Same issue with milk - I can't tolerate milk from the store, but like many other people with that issue, I have no problems with raw milk. Neither do cats - if you remember, Pottenger's raw diet experiment included raw milk. Whatever the problem is that many people have with milk, it's not about lactose....there's something else causing it. Again, could be the "mystery" additives that consumers aren't told about.

I am lucky enough to get raw goats milk for the cats. It's pricey, but, the cats don't go through much and only want it as an after dinner treat on occasion.
I have had raw milk and handled it very well. But I just don't really "like" milk well enough to make it worth my while.
A local butcher would probably be the least costly option of the three, even though Hare Today and US Wellness sells very good products.

 

[maves]

Yes, a few years back I found myself looking longingly at things like the chicken chunks, marrow bones, and hearts from Hare Today. I asked the owner the same question and got the same answer. Translation: Yes of course they're fine for humans! Great way to save some money and get really fresh, high quality, pastured meats etc into the bargain.

For those thinking of eating food from Hare Today, the ground beef is not appropriate for human consumption (I asked the owner).

 

[maves]

I'm very grateful to have stumbled on Adored Beast's Feline Gut Soothe (herbs plus probiotics), which has been an incredible help for Edwina, who's the queen of inflammation. Edwina, her people, and the rugs are all much happier for it!

I have S. Boulardii and Slippery Elm Bark on hand. My cat refuses to eat SEB (somehow she manages to leave it on her plate even when it's a liquid on her food!). In your experience is Feline Gut Soothe better than those two? I saw on the Adored Beast site that people rotate several products so that they continue to be effective. Do you do that?

 

[lisahe]

I have S. Boulardii and Slippery Elm Bark on hand. My cat refuses to eat SEB (somehow she manages to leave it on her plate even when it's a liquid on her food!). In your experience is Feline Gut Soothe better than those two? I saw on the Adored Beast site that people rotate several products so that they continue to be effective. Do you do that?

I've never used S. Boulardii so can't comment on that. In our experience, slippery elm bark can be very helpful (if a cat will eat it, which ours does) but it's just one ingredient. Feline Gut Soothe includes SEB plus other ingredients to help ease inflammation, plus probiotics, too. It's helped Edwina tremendously.

I do not rotate Adored Beast products. Given how much FGS helps Edwina, I don't want to stop using it. The FGS page mentions that some cats stay on it constantly since they feel so much better when they take it. I think Edwina's one of those cats! I can even notice the difference in her after she takes the stuff. She doesn't love having FGS in her food but she will eat it.

 

[sophie1]

My cats just finished a course of antibiotics, so I was looking into probiotics for them. The problem is, I'm sure 99% of probiotic products have mostly dead bacteria by the time you get it. Also, when I looked at the strains in cat probiotics, it was always just one stupid lactobacillus strain. Great help that is.

So I hit on another idea: I make yogurt with half and half for myself, so I know for sure that it contains active cultures. I strained off the whey (the liquid that collects in a container of yogurt), saved it in a jar, and give my cats a spoonful with each meal. They seem to be doing very well, their stools went back to normal and there's been no vomiting. So, cheap and easy probiotics??? Note though, when I make yogurt I let it run for a good 36 hours to jack up the probiotic content, so there's not much lactose left to cause problems for my cats. Whey from grocery store yogurt probably has a lot more lactose and way less probiotics in it, because they only culture the yogurt for something like 4 hours.

The raw food I'm sure is helping a lot to repopulate their gut microbiomes, but I was happy to give them a little extra help.

 

[Pekkle98]

I've never used S. Boulardii so can't comment on that. In our experience, slippery elm bark can be very helpful (if a cat will eat it, which ours does) but it's just one ingredient. Feline Gut Soothe includes SEB plus other ingredients to help ease inflammation, plus probiotics, too. It's helped Edwina tremendously.

I do not rotate Adored Beast products. Given how much FGS helps Edwina, I don't want to stop using it. The FGS page mentions that some cats stay on it constantly since they feel so much better when they take it. I think Edwina's one of those cats! I can even notice the difference in her after she takes the stuff. She doesn't love having FGS in her food but she will eat it.

Hi! I saw that Feline Gut Soothe has helped your Edwina a lot & wondered what her primary symptoms were & how long it took for it to work once you started? Also, did you start with the full 1/4tsp? I'm using it for my ginger boy, Cheeto, & I agree that you can tell right away that it makes them feel better soon after eating, though I wonder if I'm going too fast since I started with 1/4 tsp day 1 (he ate it up no problem).

 

[lisahe]

Hi! I saw that Feline Gut Soothe has helped your Edwina a lot & wondered what her primary symptoms were & how long it took for it to work once you started? Also, did you start with the full 1/4tsp? I'm using it for my ginger boy, Cheeto, & I agree that you can tell right away that it makes them feel better soon after eating, though I wonder if I'm going too fast since I started with 1/4 tsp day 1 (he ate it up no problem).

I have to be relatively quick for the moment P Pekkle98 but want to say that Edwina's main symptom has (always) been vomiting. She has signs of IBD and has always had food sensitivity issues. She had to have patches of her stomach surgically removed last summer. Basically she's always had stomach problems. (She came to us hungry, when she was 10 months old. I think the hunger damaged her digestive system. It definitely gave her lifelong food anxiety, which contributes to vomiting because of stress.)

From what I gather, many/most cats can start on a FGS dose of something like 1/8 or 1/4 teaspoon. But I started Edwina on a pinch, gradually moving up to two pinches... it took a couple months to get her to 1/2 teaspoon a day, for her weight class. I'm not sure I needed to start that small but there were reasons, including that we had trouble with a probiotic before and that when I first gave her a smallish FGS dose (1/8 teaspoon, I think?) she vomited that night. Though that first dose came on a bad day for her; it was probably the wrong time to give her anything new.

If Cheeto's doing okay on that 1/4 teaspoon, so be it, keep it going! If he's in Edwina's weight class, meaning you can increase, I'd probably do that slowly.

As for results. We saw them fairly soon after she started getting significant amounts of FGS each day. So that was about a month, I think. But now that she's been on a full dose for about two months (maybe a little less?) I notice that seems (how to put it?) more consistently better. In the beginning, it felt like the effect went away... but now it seems to last more. This fits with what it says on Adored Beast's site: they say it takes six weeks to get full effects. I do give her her daily dose in two installments, to kind of stretch it out.

What are/were Cheetoh's main symptoms? (Edwina's definitely a stomach cat; our previous cat's problems were more intestinal.)

Oops, I guess that's more than a little! Back to work! I hope Cheetoh keeps feeling better on FGS. Please keep posting!

 

[maves]

Many grocery meats are treated with chemical coatings to make them look red & juicy, or brine injections to add weight and improve the flavor. None of these are reported on the label because the USDA doesn't require it. They are often almost putrid when you buy them - take a whiff!! I never feed grocery meat to my cats because of those issues, and in fact the few times I tried they turned up their nose and wouldn't touch it. Smart kitties. Definitely stick to Hare Today, US Wellness, or a trusted local butcher. I bet a lot of meat "allergies" in cats are actually reactions to those additives, or maybe because the meat was rotten. I rarely buy meat for myself from grocery stores, for the same reasons.

I went back to food from Hare Today, and Bean is much better. The fur on her ears is growing back. I even gave her a little chicken, which I thought she had become allergic to, and she didn't throw it up. Now I'm wondering about eggs. A while back she started getting diarrhea, which was because of the eggs in her food. Might that have anything to do with additives? Also, if the problem was grocery store chicken, does that mean she could have chicken if it's good quality canned food like Weruva?