First time pet owner, need specific help please!

[nuieng]

 
Thanks guys!

My only concern with portions is that I will be going back to work from Wednesday and I will need to know how much of a batch to make for when the automatic feeder arrives. 

The  feeder is airtight and can hold wet food so it should be ok with raw for 8 hours (I can put them in half frozen so that by the time he gets to it, it will still hopefully be fresh).

Just one more thing please, would this be a balanced schedule to do:

Morning: feed only a protein meat (with premix)

Afternoon: just organs 

Evening: a meaty bone/carcass 

The only issue would be that I wouldn't know how much meaty/bone ratio to give each night?

I am not familiar with Felini Complete premix but please make sure whether it makes a balance diet for your cat. Does the premix include calcium and vitamins?

If it makes a complete/balance diet, you do not need to feed meaty bone/carcass and organs in separate meals otherwise you cat will get too much calcium and vitamins.

What organs/meaty bone/carcass do you plan to feed him?

 

[somayeh]

Hello,

Here is the information on Felini:

Nutritional additives:
Vitamin A (800,000 IU/kg), vitamin D3 (20,000 IU/kg), vitamin E [a-tocopherol acetate] (5500 mg/kg), vitamin B1 (320 mg/kg), vitamin B2 (160 mg/kg), vitamin B6 (240 mg/kg), vitamin B12 (1650 µg/kg), pantothenic acid (720 mg/kg), biotin (10,000 µg/kg), nicotinamide (1300 mg/kg), folic acid (52 mg/kg), iron [sulphate] (2400 mg/kg), copper [sulphate] (160 mg/kg), manganese [sulphate] (224 mg/kg), zinc [sulphate] (900 mg/kg), iodine [Ca-iodate] (42 mg/kg), taurine (100,000 mg/kg).

This is classified as a food supplement due to its higher content of vitamins A, D3 and trace elements than complete foods. Only feed this as 5% of the daily feeding portions.

A fully grown cat weighing 4.5kg requires approx. 130g of meat spread out over 2-3 meals. Mix 65g of meat in with 0.8g of Felini Complete (flat spoon) and 2 tbsp of water. For the preparation of larger amounts give 12.5g of Felini Complete with 1kg of meat.

As well as muscle meat, heart (up to 15%), stomach and kidneys (up to 5%) can be fed to your cat. As Felini Complete contains calcium, phosphorous and vitamin A, you should not feed your cat bones or liver. Do not feed any pork. Felini Complete contains sufficient taurine. It supplements pure meat to achieve a balanced meal. No other supplements are necessary.

I just wanted to give him some little chicken bones as treats every now and then but didn't know how often and how much it's ok to do so?

 

[somayeh]

Also I'm getting slightly confused how much meat I will need to buy for monthly batches?

He currently weighs 1.24kg and this is an online calculation I've done:

PMR Feeding Ratios (1).png

• somayeh
• Feb 3, 2016

So I'm thinking 4/5 different protein variety:

1. Chicken

2. Turkey

3. lamb

4. Beef

5. Rabbit

Each mixed with either, turkey, lamb or chicken heart.

If he has to eat 40g (I've rounded it up) a day, divided by four thats 10g per meal.

So far so good....but then....

Do all 4 meals during the day have to be different? Because I'm getting confused 

Do I for example feed chicken with lamb heart 4 times a day or do I rotate two varieties a day, or 3 or 4?

If I can figure that out I'll be one step closer to figuring out how much meat I need to make monthly batches lol!

(p.s for the next month I'm feeding 4 times a day and will then I will cut down to 3 times a day)

Many thanks. 

 

[nuieng]

 
Hello,

Here is the information on Felini:

Nutritional additives:
Vitamin A (800,000 IU/kg), vitamin D3 (20,000 IU/kg), vitamin E [a-tocopherol acetate] (5500 mg/kg), vitamin B1 (320 mg/kg), vitamin B2 (160 mg/kg), vitamin B6 (240 mg/kg), vitamin B12 (1650 µg/kg), pantothenic acid (720 mg/kg), biotin (10,000 µg/kg), nicotinamide (1300 mg/kg), folic acid (52 mg/kg), iron [sulphate] (2400 mg/kg), copper [sulphate] (160 mg/kg), manganese [sulphate] (224 mg/kg), zinc [sulphate] (900 mg/kg), iodine [Ca-iodate] (42 mg/kg), taurine (100,000 mg/kg).

This is classified as a food supplement due to its higher content of vitamins A, D3 and trace elements than complete foods. Only feed this as 5% of the daily feeding portions.

A fully grown cat weighing 4.5kg requires approx. 130g of meat spread out over 2-3 meals. Mix 65g of meat in with 0.8g of Felini Complete (flat spoon) and 2 tbsp of water. For the preparation of larger amounts give 12.5g of Felini Complete with 1kg of meat.

As well as muscle meat, heart (up to 15%), stomach and kidneys (up to 5%) can be fed to your cat. As Felini Complete contains calcium, phosphorous and vitamin A, you should not feed your cat bones or liver. Do not feed any pork. Felini Complete contains sufficient taurine. It supplements pure meat to achieve a balanced meal. No other supplements are necessary.

I just wanted to give him some little chicken bones as treats every now and then but didn't know how often and how much it's ok to do so?

From the directions, you should not feed additional bone or liver to your cat if you use Felini Complete because the food is already balanced.

I think you are confused the homemade raw diet with pray model raw (PMR) because the calculator you are using is for PMR.

If you use Felini Complete, don't use that calculator. Just mix raw meat with Felini Complete. No bone, no organ are required otherwise you cat will be at risk of eating unbalanced diet.

Hearts and gizzards are considered as meat for raw feeding.

Please also read this link: Raw Feeding Cats: Types of Raw Diets & Feeding Options

 

[somayeh]

Hello,

Thank you, I understand I'm not supposed to feed liver or bone. I was just wondering if I could give him the bones of the quail carcass and chicken carcass that I have as a treat without the felini mix every so often?

If so, how often and how much would be suitable?

 

[Columbine]

A meaty bone once or twice a week should be just fine The size should be no bigger than a chicken wingtip.

 

[somayeh]

Hi thank you.

So I've actually come across a problem with Kola in last few days and some urgent advice would be great please!

I've been feeding Kola a combination of home made raw: turkey/quail/chicken/poussin/rabbit with turkey heart, couple of scoops of felini complete and a raw egg yolk and combination of commercial food: Almo Nature Chicken and Lilies Kitchen Kitten dinner.

He was loving everything and was eating really well but all of a sudden he stopped eating raw and the commercial food! He's barely touching what I put down and only has a tiny amount if that. 

So yesterday and day before I gave him James Wellbeloved Kitten turkey pouch (mixed with few tiny raw meat chucks) and he ate that up quicktime which made me think he's just become fussy/bored with the food I've been giving him?

Even though I've been trying  to give him variety  I feel something has gone wrong in the process, maybe he's noticed the feline  complete  smell which has put him off?

Anyway so today I ordered a variety from Natural instincts but until that arrives I don't have anything to feed him but the 3 variations I mentioned above and home made raw- any suggestion to get him eating please?

I made him a quail/rabbit mix with lamb tongue and feline complete (no egg yolk) tonight and drizzled some tuna oil on it in the hope to entice him, but no interest whatsoever! I'm worried as he needs to eat tonight and tomorrow until the food arrives and since I work I can't be home to keep trying different foods with him!

p.s with the homemade raw I make sure it's as close to room temp as  I can.

 

[Columbine]

It's perfectly possible that he's being a little fussy - or that he's finding the radical diet change a little hard to adjust to. The James Wellbeloved is closer to the food he was weaned on to, which may well explain why he's accepting that more readily.

If it were me, I'd feed him that for now, and transition back to raw more slowly to give him chance to adjust.

You might find that he does far better with ground raw than the chunks version you're currently feeding him. It might be worth getting some made for pet food ground meat (Nature's Menu plain minces are probably the most readily available) and mixing the Felini in with that.

Toppers can also work brilliantly - Nature's Menu Country Hunter freeze dried cat treats are raw, nutritionally complete, and REALLY stinky and easy to crumble. They're my go-to topper for my girl...they seem to make anything almost irresistible Thrive freeze dried cat treats crumbled up pretty well too, and are another great topper option.

Above all, don't panic! So long as he eats something (preferably nutritionally complete), it's not the end of the world if it's not your ideal diet for him. I'd be FAR more worried if he wasn't interested in any food at all. For now, let him eat the cat food he's enjoying

 

[somayeh]

Thank you @Columbine! The problem is the pet store that sells the James Wellbeloved are open 10-6pm which are my work hours so I haven't had a chance to get him some and wanted to see if there was anything I could do so he would eat last night and today (I will have a chance to get some later today though).

He's barely eaten anything from last night or this morning, only a few prices each time

Thanks for the Natures Menu Country Hunter Freeze Dried Cat Treats recommendation! I've just ordered two packs on Amazon so hopefully that will help, they won't arrive for a little while though....

It's just strange because he adapted to raw so quickly and was loving it like there was no tomorrow! He stopped rather suddenly which makes me think it might've been something I did with a batch...I've tried ameding what I thought went wrong, but no luck.

I see you're point about chunks, however, will ground meat not take away from the nutrients of the meat though?

I've ordered the following from Natural Instinct in the hope that it will get him eating again (also making my own batches are proving to be  a little too difficult!)

Cat Wild Venison Weight 2x500g
Country Banquet (Cat) Turkey Weight 2x500g
Country Banquet (Cat) Organic Chicken Weight 2x250g
Country Banquet (Cat) Fish Weight 2x250g
Cat Lamb & Chicken Weight 2x500g
Pure Duck Weight 2x500g

 

[Columbine]

Ground meat shouldn't be nutritionally any different to chunks, so don't worry on that score

It sucks that the pet store is only open while you're at work. :cross: that he likes the ground meat better.

It might well be there was something odd with the last batch you made. I know others feeding homemade raw occasionally have the same problem. The trick is to have freeze dried or canned food in the cupboard just in case of this kind of problem

 

[nuieng]

 
Hi thank you.

So I've actually come across a problem with Kola in last few days and some urgent advice would be great please!

I've been feeding Kola a combination of home made raw: turkey/quail/chicken/poussin/rabbit with turkey heart, couple of scoops of felini complete and a raw egg yolk and combination of commercial food: Almo Nature Chicken and Lilies Kitchen Kitten dinner.

He was loving everything and was eating really well but all of a sudden he stopped eating raw and the commercial food! He's barely touching what I put down and only has a tiny amount if that. 

So yesterday and day before I gave him James Wellbeloved Kitten turkey pouch (mixed with few tiny raw meat chucks) and he ate that up quicktime which made me think he's just become fussy/bored with the food I've been giving him?

Even though I've been trying  to give him variety  I feel something has gone wrong in the process, maybe he's noticed the feline  complete  smell which has put him off?

Anyway so today I ordered a variety from Natural instincts but until that arrives I don't have anything to feed him but the 3 variations I mentioned above and home made raw- any suggestion to get him eating please?

I made him a quail/rabbit mix with lamb tongue and feline complete (no egg yolk) tonight and drizzled some tuna oil on it in the hope to entice him, but no interest whatsoever! I'm worried as he needs to eat tonight and tomorrow until the food arrives and since I work I can't be home to keep trying different foods with him!

p.s with the homemade raw I make sure it's as close to room temp as  I can.

Just out of curiosity, do you mix so many proteins in one batch? e.g. turkey/quail/chicken/poussin/rabbit with turkey heart, quail/rabbit/lamb tongue?

I've never done that because my cats are picky. So I rotate different proteins throughout the day but never mix them up.

Maybe you can try feeding single protein meals and observe his preferences. Note that two of my cats hate quail but the youngest kitten eats it.

 

[somayeh]

Hey,

No I do single portions, only recently I've tried mixing, but only two as a way of enticing him, but can't say it's worked much!

 

[nuieng]

I see. Do you have any other premix to try? My cats prefers Alnutrin premix to the catinfo.org recipe. I guess the catinfo recipe has strong supplement smell. I am not sure if the felini will have similar smell but it might be the cause.

 

[somayeh]

Hey guys,

Sorry to be a pest, but I'm still struggling with all this and little...

Kolas' schedule has been a little inconsistent and bit all over the place.....this is worrying me as I've noticed he is over grooming recently and have read this could be because of a change in routine and no consistency? 

The Natural Instinct is also been a hit and miss....I'm mixing it with the canned stuff he likes and some home made raw but haven't got round to just serving him only the Natural Instinct yet.

The main issue is that the automatic feeder arrived last week but it doesn't seem to work! So I've had to resort getting dry food as my housemate can't feed him every day.

My local pet store stopped selling Orijen, which I've heard is high quality, so I got 3 different flavours from Calagan which he assured me is high quality.

He had some of the Calagan chicken yesterday but sure enough his poo smelled for the first time since I've got him!

Could you guys kindly recommend any dry food brands that are are high quality and that I can feed in conjunction with raw? 

Is orijen worth trying still? I saw @missmimz  suggested ZiwiPeak’s but I've just done a quick Amazon search and it's rather expensive with only 400g ouches available.

Also a thing that's happening is sometimes when I leave food out he smells it and walks away, but if I pick a little from it and hand feed him, he'll have it! So I have to sit there and keep feeding him until he either gets the idea and has it himself from his plate or he walks away not touching it!

I've started crumbling the Natures Menu Country Hunter Freeze Dried Cat Treats on his food which does seem to help at times. 

 

[missmimz]

I think he needs a vet visit. Sudden appetite change and over grooming can be a sign of a medical issue.

 

[Columbine]

Definitely get him checked by a vet. It's important to rule out any physical cause.

In terms of dry, Purizon, Eden, Applaws and Aatu are all pretty decent imo. I'd say Eden is probably the closest to Orijen, but it's primarily available online. Aatu is the most expensive, but is sold in Pets at Home - so is sometimes easier to get hold of than some other brands. Applaws is relatively widely available, and Purizon is only from Zooplus (who also stock Orijen, FYI ).

I would have thought that any of these foods would be fine with raw...they're all high meat, grain free and have god quality ingredients.

The smelly poop could simply be due to the switch from Orijen to Canagan. Asha reacted the same way to Purizon when I switched too suddenly. Basically, cats can switch between wet brands or raw brands without problems, but different dry foods need to be introduced more slowly to avoid tummy upsets. I think it's because dry foods vary much more in ingredients (and sometimes fat content - sudden increase in fat is a sure way of loosening the bowels :lol3: )

Do let us know what the vet says.