Finally! I know why our cats are fat!

ldg

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When they were kittens, they HATED wet food.

8 years later (for most of them)... I've managed to switch them to an (almost) all wet food diet (beginning of November). !!! (Lazlo, Tuxie, Shel and Flowerbelle still get some kibble, but they don't free feed anymore). The only fat cats (we thought) when we were free feeding dry (with two wet meals a day) were Billy and Ming Loy.

However - Billy isn't loosing as much weight as I'd hoped and seems to have stalled out. Ming Loy lost a little and has stabilized at probably a pound to 1 1/2 pounds overweight. We thought Lazlo was looking VERY skinny - and he was just at the vet who said he is PERFECT weight. Shelly, who we thought was maybe a little to the thin side, we were told could stand to lose a pound.


Chumley we know is chunky - but he and Tuxie are the exceptions. The vet(s) want a little extra weight on them because of their respective health issues - but I think even Chum could stand to lose a little weight now. Tux is at the vet Wednesday, and though we suspect he's lost a little bit of weight on this switch, we think he's still over 11 pounds.

So I have been digging and digging to find healthy foods for them. I'm trying to balance the boys' and Spooky's urinary and bladder issues (they were on c/d prescription food) with Chumley's allergy issues - AND trying to figure out the right amount to feed each cat.

I created a spreadsheet with all the food options (that I'm willing to use), and figured out the suggested feeding amounts - and then looked up the actual calories in each can and pouch - and calculated the "right" amount based on 20 calories per pound (that they should weigh) per cat.

A couple weeks later, and they're still not finishing the food I put out for them.


THEN I got to thinking - in people, as we age, we need less calories. Well, most of our cats are seniors - and while we do play with them quite a bit, they do NOT run around like they did in a house. Let's face it - we're in a confined space. They leap and jump - but they don't run around much. So I go hunting... and find that senior cats that aren't very active should be eating more like 15 calories per pound per cat.


...and given the amount of wet food they DON'T eat when I put it out, this seems to be what our "self regulators" are eating. !!!! (15 calories per pound per cat). I've had almost no leftovers at meal time the past two days.


So now they're getting (what I think is) a really good mix of quality foods (along with some c/d for the boys that have had problems in the past) - and, I think and hope - in the right amount.


Of course this means that the ferals outside won't be getting as high a quality diet as they were (I was feeding them all the kitty's leftovers). But it does mean the overweight kitties ought to start to come down to the right weight.


The wet food I'm giving them in addition to the c/d is

Holistic Select
Wellness (though none of the ones with potato starch) cans & pouches
Instinct (by Nature's Variety - they LOVE the rabbit!
)
Royal Canin Ultra Light (for Ming Loy and Billy, though this is only a portion of what they get, it's not the sole food).

The only potential trigger I see for Chum may be Brewer's Yeast in the Holistic Select - we'll see.

The beautiful thing about the changes I'm making to Chumley's diet is that with the addition of duck & fish, and flax, the squashes & broccoli (as the non-meat portions of a lot of the foods) is that these are all "yin" ingredients and should help address his yin deficiency.
 

feralvr

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This is a great subject and OH so confusing for alot of people on what to feed kitty?? There are so many diets to choose from and it even gets more confusing when you have multiple cats to feed with different health issues going on. Yes, we need to try to balance the Yin and Yang. My dog, Wilbur, a twelve year old JRT has many health issues and he gets accupressure treatments now every two weeks. We found that his Yin is way to low and he is way too hot inside. So I had to find a way to cool him internally and balance him out. This goes for out cats as well, and it seems to constantly be changing.

One/quarter of my cats diets is dry and three/quarter is wet. I feed Welllness Core dry (and Pipsqueak finally has normal stools on this food) and I feed Wellness canned, Instinct canned, Innova EVO canned and some of the better varieties of Fancy Feast canned (they LOVE that stuff). All of my babies eat everything up in one feeding with no waste. Even Magilla is eating all of her food up now and has put on 1 pd. and 4 oz. in one month. She was quite thin at 4 lb. 11 oz. after her trapping. Now she looks good, but if I keep up her calories like this she will balloon out


You have taken the leg work out of how much to feed
and I think I have been overfeeding Pipsqueak. I think he should be at 15 calories/lb. and of course the kittens more. So tomorrow I am going to spend some time figuring out exactly how much I have been giving all of the kids. I am curious now
.
 
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ldg

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It took a while to track down the calories in each food. Only the Hills c/d and Royal Canin had the calories listed on the cans. The others had them on the websites - except Wellness! I had to dig through blog sites to find the info on the Wellness products I'm using.

Once you know how many calories are in the (dry or canned), then you can get to the right quantity. For me, Wellness was the only really time-consuming one.

And I was really constrained on what I can feed them by what's available around here. Petsmart just has very little in the way of choice. But right near the Walmart we use is a Pet Valu, and they had some really nice options (for us).

I didn't want a completely grain free diet - but I did want to bring the amount of grain in their diet down (especially for Chum). I wanted to eliminate the rice from his diet (though I'm not sure it's a trigger, brewer's rice is), and his vet didn't want him on anything with soy or wheat. And since potatoes are supposed to be toxic to cats, I really didn't get why potato starch is even an option in cat food!
I also wonder about carrots, since cats don't have the ability to convert the beta carotene in them... but whatever. Carrots are in almost every cat food.
And Chumley hates peas, and refuses to eat the hypoallergenic foods with duck & peas.
(Though he does like duck).

I'm also not in love with flax, because from what I've determined, it's about 57% ALA - which cats CANNOT convert! I wonder if this isn't hard on their kidneys... but that's why I don't want them on a completely grain free diet, because flax is one of the major ingredients in most grain free foods.
 

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Realize many use 30 as the "ideal" per lb and 20 as a Wt control amount
_

I use 22-25 for my very active cats
 
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ldg

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Originally Posted by sharky

Realize many use 30 as the "ideal" per lb and 20 as a Wt control amount
_

I use 22-25 for my very active cats
Our kitties must be practically comatose then, because 20 calories per cat per pound is just working out to be too much.
 

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I'm exhausted just reading all that...I may need to go lie down
.

Was there a vet or someone who told you that potato starch is bad for cats, or are you thinking that because of reading that potatoes are bad for them? I'm curious because I just started my new cat (the FIV+ one) on Wellness wet.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by BreaMarie

I'm exhausted just reading all that...I may need to go lie down
.

Was there a vet or someone who told you that potato starch is bad for cats, or are you thinking that because of reading that potatoes are bad for them? I'm curious because I just started my new cat (the FIV+ one) on Wellness wet.
Laurie will chime in on her thoughts... My issue is Potato starch is the CARB part of the potato and is linked to diabetes and sugar issues in humans, dogs and cats
 
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ldg

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We're feeding Wellness wet foods as part of their diet (in addition to the others listed above in my first post), I'm just picking out the ones that don't use potato starch.
 

feralvr

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I really worry about the grain free diets too because it can be hard on their kidneys. I do not feed my old dogs grain free anymore but the cats are still young. Still I don't feed total grain free some of the canned has a bit of grain. I didn't know about potato starch. Will read that link you posted on it
.
But I need a break from reading at the moment
 

ritz

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I have found that if you email the company, they will email you or mail you comprehensive nutritional information (e.g., Soulistic).
Note that labels indicate "minimum" amount of crude fat, crude protein, crude fiber, calories [if indicated], etc. The guaranteed analysis ("minimum") is often different from reality ("recent analysis"). This affects, somewhat significantly, the total amount of calories (increases).
 
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ldg

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OK. We were at the vet today for Tuxie, and I asked the calorie question. I didn't tell Doc what we'd been doing, I asked him how many calories per pound are required by an inactive sr. kitty. He had to convert because he thinks in terms of kg not lb, but he said 15 to 20! So I'm NOT crazy, and if Billy's not losing weight on the around 20 calories per pound then I should go ahead and reduce it to 15 and I would NOT be underfeeding!

He confirmed that the role of carrots is only filler/fiber because cats produce their own beta carotene and can't process carrot into beta carotene, and he also agrees, he'd avoid potato starch - it is linked to diabetes in cats.

And though he's been focused on learning more about nutrition the last two years, he knew EFAs (essential fatty acids) are VERY important to kitty health (Omega fats, basically), but the current book he's using didn't say anything about cats lacking delta 6 desaturase - meaning they cannot convert linoleic acid into its essential components. He asked me to send up the info I had.

I sent him these articles:

http://www.blakkatz.com/fat.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/513981 (A published study confirming cats have no D6D activity)
Table of fatty acid composition of plant fats: http://curezone.com/foods/fatspercent.asp
 
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