Feignion and Answer?

[Marley&Luna]

Hi all,

I did a search but didn’t find much. Searching «Answer » was all kinds of fun!

I’ve got two varieties of Answer in the freezer and a sample pack of Feignion on the way. Any thoughts on these two brands, good or bad? Thank you.

 

[LTS3]

I've never heard of either brand but found the web sites:

Answers Pet Food
FEGNION | Raw Cat Food

They look pretty decent.

 

[Marley&Luna]

Thanks LTS3 . I thought so too…

 

[Box of Rain]

For the cost to feed one cat using Fergion, I could easily feed 15-25 cats a better and more varied diet (that was inclusive of raw meaty bones that I believe are vital to dental health and which are good for cat's minds) for the cost of getting this shipped to me in CA.

Ouch!

Bill

 

[Marley&Luna]

Hi Bill!

yes the cost is astronomical. I’m still researching the whole raw thing though so thought I’d give it a try. It would certainly have to be in a rotation. Sheesh.

But other than price, any red flags?

Oh and PS: it’s now official that they do NOT like Stella & Chewy raw. Frozen or freeze dried. Any flavor. Even my eat anything kitten. So that’s that.

I’ve got some meat in the freezer to use with TCFeline. But want to finish trying prepared raw foods first.

 

[Astragal14]

We tried Answers. It smelled SO badly!! (it's fermented, so I guess that's why?) Honestly I was relieved when my cats didn't like it.

What other brands have you tried?

 

[Marley&Luna]

So far, Stella & Chewy, which neither like. Lotus, which the kitten loves and Marley will eat if served with canned. And raw meat from whatever I’m making for dinner served with some canned, as well as chicken necks and liver.

 

[Box of Rain]

Hi Bill!

yes the cost is astronomical. I’m still researching the whole raw thing though so thought I’d give it a try. It would certainly have to be in a rotation. Sheesh.

But other than price, any red flags?

Oh and PS: it’s now official that they do NOT like Stella & Chewy raw. Frozen or freeze dried. Any flavor. Even my eat anything kitten. So that’s that.

I’ve got some meat in the freezer to use with TCFeline. But want to finish trying prepared raw foods first.

Not so much "red flags" as questions I'd like answered. For example, whole rabbit was found to be deficient in taurine with cats in the study below and (according to this study) therefore requires supplementation. I'm not seeing supplemental taurine in the ingredient list. So it is a "question" in my mind.

Rabbit Carcasses for Use in Feline Diets: Amino Acid Concentrations in Fresh and Frozen Carcasses With and Without Gastrointestinal Tracts

With both the Turkey and Chicken formulas they don't specify if the meat is dark meat, white meat, or a mix. Dark meat Turkey is an outstanding source of taurine, but white meat (breast) is quite poor. Same with chicken (although dark meat Chicken is far less taurine-rich than Turkey).

Here is a list of some common cuts and their taurine levels:

The Importance of Taurine in Raw Diets, Essential Amino Acid, Cat Guides

They don't list a percentage of bone used, but the Calcium to Phosphorus ratio is on the high side.

The bone is ground, as is the case with most (all?) commercial raw products. One of the main factors in my feeding raw to cats (and dogs) is the positives of dental (and mental) health that comes with tearing flesh off bone. My operating assumption is that muscles, bones, and teeth that do not get a workout will atrophy. In contrast, cats (and dogs) that chew appropriate soft-edible bone strengthen the teeth, jaw bones, and their mandible and neck bones to a rather amazing degree. After having been fed exclusively PMR-style diet for 9 months (since we adopted him as a 6 month old kitten) my Desmond, who is a petite cat, can tear up a Chicken drumstick and completely demolish it. Strong!

And the chewing helps keep teeth clean (in addition to being strong).

We just had a Vet visit with our dog, Chester, an 8.5 year old Vizsla who I've PRM fed from 8 weeks. Our Vet is amazed and the quality of his teeth and the obvious health of his gums. Most dogs (as in, close to all) begin to develop periodontal disease by the time they hit 3. I'm not positive of the data on cats, but I think it is similar. Look at how many cats need teeth extractions.

Anyway, this is a huge issue for me and how I feed. I would only choose a ground ingredient if it was the only option I had to get an ingredient or if I had a cat who had already lost its teeth (or had other issues that prevented gnawing on bone).

Being a single protein meal is a plus for cats who have preexisting allergies, but I'm not convinced that serving one protein doesn't contribute to developing allergies, and--in any case--I prefer mixing proteins. And especially widening the net to get a variety of "secreting organs" (such as kidneys) and connective tissue into the mix.

I also prefer working towards giving cats bigger and bigger pieces of meat as they get strong. Starting with as fine a hand-mince as necessary and then a coarser mince, and then building up to strips or chunks they need to work at tearing. Grinds remove the "work" and I do not believe that's a positive, myself.

With Fergion, depending on the quantity an equally mixed assortment of Rabbitt, Turkey, and Chicken totaled $40–$60 a pound shipped. That would be brutal.

I am fortunate in having a cat who loves everything. He has not rejected a single fresh or fresh/frozen whole food item over the past 9 months and I've fed him a wide variety of things (as variety is my preference).

Sorry to get so long winded. I hope this helps.

I also don't mean to sound down on Fergion. Better than most food. Moisture rich and seems like quality ingredients, but...

Bill

 

[Marley&Luna]

Thanks Bill, appreciate your insights and I’ll read those articles.

 

[Marley&Luna]

Really interesting articles Box of Rain . Particularly how the smaller animals and the hardest working muscles contain the most taurine. It’s interesting the Perfectly Rawsome article doesn’t even list rabbit among the proteins discussed. I suppose Feignion thinks that including lungs and hearts ups the taurine. But if the basis is low in rabbits to begin with….

Not worried as it would be fed in a rotation of other things. But definitely thinking now I won’t do whole carcass rabbit if I ever make my own. I’ll use ground and a supplement like TCFeline. Also interesting to learn that taurine is water soluble and one needn’t worry about giving too much.

It’s interesting how even the raw feeding gurus (to me so far anyway),Dr. Pierson and the TCFeline founder don’t agree on chicken/rabbit vs red meat. But again, I’d feed all three in rotation as I do now with cans.

I cut they’re chicken leg pieces treat even larger last night given what you said. They loved it. Even the baby. Lots of head tilted chewing going on.

I’m still nervous about bones, and about feeding exclusively home made raw. They do like chicken necks though. We’re getting there, but I clearly have a lot more to learn. Will be spending time on that website. Thanks again

 

[Box of Rain]

Really interesting articles Box of Rain . Particularly how the smaller animals and the hardest working muscles contain the most taurine. It’s interesting the Perfectly Rawsome article doesn’t even list rabbit among the proteins discussed. I suppose Feignion thinks that including lungs and hearts ups the taurine. But if the basis is low in rabbits to begin with….

Not worried as it would be fed in a rotation of other things. But definitely thinking now I won’t do whole carcass rabbit if I ever make my own. I’ll use ground and a supplement like TCFeline. Also interesting to learn that taurine is water soluble and one needn’t worry about giving too much.

It’s interesting how even the raw feeding gurus (to me so far anyway),Dr. Pierson and the TCFeline founder don’t agree on chicken/rabbit vs red meat. But again, I’d feed all three in rotation as I do now with cans.

I cut they’re chicken leg pieces treat even larger last night given what you said. They loved it. Even the baby. Lots of head tilted chewing going on.

I’m still nervous about bones, and about feeding exclusively home made raw. They do like chicken necks though. We’re getting there, but I clearly have a lot more to learn. Will be spending time on that website. Thanks again

Hoping to find consensus on raw feeding preferences will prove an exercise in frustration. LOL

I would serve Rabbit as an occasional item. Cats in the wild take down Rabbits as prey (in addition to ridiculously high taurine rodents like mice and rats). Issues come when feeding mono-protein diets w/o good cause, which is part of why I try to diversify (while being mindful of overall balances).

I'm not surprised your cats liked the larger than usual chicken pieces. Keep doing that (and inching slowly upwards) and see if they don't start exhibiting "lion-like" behaviors. I can not back my opinion with scientific studies, but watching a cat "work" to eat its meal (as they would with prey) seems like something that engages their bodies and their minds, tapping into something primordial. I'm convinced it adds to well-being, in addition to the building of strength and promoting good dental health (as mentioned previously).

Chicken necks and feet are good "starter" bones. You can (and probably should) take a cleaver or heavy knife and partially score the bones through (to give a head start to cats who are not used to chewing and cracking bone. I started doing such things as cutting one or two toes from a Chicken foot and scoring those as a starter. One they start going "primordial," they can move up. Chicken necks are also good.

I suspect that if you go down the PRM path, that the benefits you will (plainly) see (and smell, or rather not smell) will convince you past any initial nervousness.

Our Desmond was a street kitty. And he'd been crushed by a car. Broke his femur. An amazing rescue got him surgery (including putting him in an external stabilizer ) and then he went to an angel who fostered him until he was ready to come live with us. He was so sweet. But atrophied, weak, and kind of gimpy. Coat and over-all condition were fair.

You should see him now. After 9 months of being raw fed, he glistens. And he's strong. He's odor-free, his coat is luxurious, this eyes are brilliant and alive, and he loves meal time (<---understatement alert).

And the poops are miniscule and have virtually no smell. Hydration is excellent.

Speaking of hydration and Taurine, do use any "Myoglobin" that comes off fresh or thawing meat as a way to induce drinking. Myoglobin is the thin reddish fluid meats commonly release when packaged, and which many people call "blood." Myoglobin is loaded with water-soluble Taurine, and cats (mine anyway) will happily lap it up. They know. You can even dilute the Myoglobin, aka "baiting" the water to encourage drinking.

Freeze up excess bones and trim to make stock. Freeze in ice trays, then bag to use later (as warm "drinks" or poured over meals to add more extra moisture).

Dark meat Turkey is the main (but not sole meat) that I use. Aside from rodents (and a few seafood items), dark meat Turkey is the most taurine-rich meat that's commonly available.

Beef parts include: heart (counts as meat), liver and kidney. Also beef cheeks, (if it was less dear) tongue, sweetbreads, and connective tissues like tendon and cartilage.

Anyway, have fun. Watch your cats eat. Take delight in knowing you are advancing their health. Take it all at your own pace, while observing how they are faring. I think the positive improvements will be hard to miss as you add more natural foods.

To make it economically viable, I do think that non-billionaires need to figure out how to DIY (and that DIY is better for the cats--and the wallet--than serving pre-ground food).

If they like chomping on Chicken necks (as a natural cat should) that is a very positive sign that your cats will enjoy PRM feeding.

That's my take, anyway.

Bill

 

[Marley&Luna]

So an update on Answer. Thawed and opened first box today. Duck. It has no odor at all that I can sense, so I’m not sure if the recipe has changed or what Astragal14 . Marley nibbled (typical raw response for her), Luna devoured (typical raw response for her). Still have a Turkey in the freezer to try.

The Fegnion sampler arrived today. Will report back once we try it.

 

[LTS3]

Have you tried Vital Essentials raw? That's a pretty good brand. I feed the freeze dried version to one of my cats.

 

[Marley&Luna]

No I haven’t. I’ve not seen it around in my local pet shops. Will look online. Thanks.

 

[Marley&Luna]

Oh wait! Yes I feed the girls the Vital Essentials freeze dried treats. They loooooove them.

 

[Marley&Luna]

So an update as promised.

Answers Duck and Turkey are both hits with Luna. Trying Beef and Chicken recipes next.

Fegnion was a huge hit, all three, but especially the Rabbit and the Chicken.

Lotus raw Turkey and raw Venison are hits.

Savage is a big success, all three, but especially the Rabbit and the Duck.

After the Thanksgiving holiday, I will slowly begin the process of getting Marley to accept raw. It’ll probably take awhile.

 

[Furballsmom]

Thanks very much for the update