Fat Sister Skinny Sister

[Lisannez]

Hi all,
My fiance and I have two cats a tuxedo (fat cat) and a ragdoll (skinny cat) both are 12 years old. The tuxedo was from a very large litter, so when we put food in front of her she eats like she will never eat again. The ragdoll grazes throughout the day and is very picky with food. She has been known to go days without eating. Thankfully the ragdoll can jump up high so we put her food where tuxedo cannot reach it, she is too fat to jump. Tuxedo cat is 18 pounds! Both cats eat the same amount of food, but tuxedo gains weight, and ragdoll does not. All of her labs are perfect, and she has no other conditions. I exercise her a lot, she does not get table food or treats but she just cannot lose weight. We started only giving her dry food no such luck. She cries for food 24/7. We never give in. If we leave her sisters food down for a second and turn our backs its gone. I can often distract her with play, but she quickly forgets. When we eat, she stares at us and cries. Once I left a sandwich on the table and she jumped up and ate half of it, bread and all. The only food she won't eat is lettuce. It's always been this way, but now that she is older the weight problem seems to be worse. She is other wise healthy. We feed her blue buffalo food two times a day the recommended food, dry only. She tricks every auto feeder we buy. She has opened doors to cabinets and ripped holes into food bags, we are desperate.

 

[Kieka]

The problem with dry food is it is high in carbs, which leads to weight retention. Also, Blue Buffalo tends to be an extremely high fat food and many owners have reported weight gain on it. They do have a "weight control" food with lower fat but the carbs are still high and protein lower than ideal. IMO, it's a gimmick title to make people think it is good when really it is just a lower fat version of their normal food.

For weight loss, you want to control calories with a high protein, moderate fat and low carb food while also encouraging activity with daily play sessions. We typically recommend wet food since they tend to have fewer fillers. Plus it has a better water content which can help reduce chances of kidney problems. So you get a more biologically appropriate diet without a ton of carbs. Which means your cat feels Fuller because they are getting protein not carbs and their bodies process it better so you don't get as much midsection pudgy kitty.

Most cats should need around 20 calories per pound as a very rough starting point. Your goal would be to slowly reduce the number of calories she gets per day. Very slowly. We are talking 5 to 10 calorie reduction per week. Start by figuring out how many calories she eats per week then slowly cutting back. It will take time but cats don't diet well in general and going too rapid can be tough on them. If you can, I've found that several smaller meals is better for a food focused cat then two or three larger meals.

For activity, toys work for many cats. Since your cat is food motivated you may need to use treats to get her moving. My guys lover chasing tossed treats across the kitchen and they run for their food. Using freeze dried treats that are just the named meat is a healthier option then temptations just make sure you factor calories into the daily intake. You can also try food puzzles or mazes or hiding treats for her to move around and hunt. Just be careful not to go overboard and account. Total calories for the treats should never be more than 5-10% of her daily calories.

We do have a great weight loss thread... That I can't find but will come back and post when I do.

You might want to look into microchip feeders for your ragdoll. Put the ragdolls food in a feeder triggered to open with a unique microchip (tag on collar or using identification tag) so that your tuxedo can't access it. When your tuxedo does lose weight the height may not be able to keep the ragdolls food safe.

Also here is a body condition chart. Weight and poundage is not an accurate measurement of health. I have three cats 7.5 pounds, 9 pounds and 14.5 pounds. They are all good body condition and there physical size varies though

fat-cat-scale.png

• Kieka
• Feb 1, 2017
• 3

 

[Azazel]

Hi there,

Wet food is better for weight loss. Dry food is full of carbs that cats can’t properly digest. A high protein, moderate fat, and low carb wet food diet is best.

Has the skinny cat had a vet checkup too? Not eating for 3 days is a bit alarming.

 

[Kieka]

Has the skinny cat had a vet checkup too? Not eating for 3 days is a bit alarming.

And that too...

Cats can have major health problems if they go more than 24 hours with food. I would guess the ragdoll is eating when you aren't looking but a blood panel and vet check would probably be a good idea.

 

[KarenKat]

How frustrating! Kieka and A Azazel already had great recommendations on the wet food. If you want a dry food for snacks or if you aren't home (or fat kitty won't accept wet food) then Dr Elsey's clean Protein kibble is a great low carb kibble to try. Also look at calories and not the recommended amount. The amount on the bag usually overestimates a lot.

We had two boys, and they were very similar for food. They were both free-fed dry food and our tabby, Trin, binge ate and ballooned up to almost 18 lbs, and Gohan nibbled the exact amount of calories he required and stayed quite thin (healthy, but almost two dimensional). We ended up switching from an absolute junk kibble to Natural Balance (is still pretty high in carbs). Trin suddenly stopped binging and started getting very active. Then he naturally lost about 3 lbs over 3 years. So the type of kibble is important.

We just got another cat, Olive, and she is so food obsessed. She became barrel-shaped from free-feeding on the Natural Balance kibble and we switched her to all wet food. She is now fit and trim, and she doesn't beg for food. Wet food to me seems so much more satisfying than a calorie-dense cracker ball - I look at is as eating a power bar instead of a nice big healthy breakfast. Maybe the fat kitty isn't feeling satisfied at mealtimes, and wet food may keep her feeling full.

Good luck, weight loss is a marathon, and you want to go slow! But it's definitely possible!

 

[KarenKat]

Also CatFoodDB - Cat Food Reviews to help you find the best cat food for your cat is a great resource for comparing food content.

 

[Lari]

We kind of have the same problem except my bf's cat is not quite that fat. She does need to lose weight and considers my cat's bowl (and mine is a grazer) her second lunch. "You didn't eat this right away, Lelia? You saved it for me, right?"

You might want to look into microchip feeders for your ragdoll. But the ragdolls food in a feeder triggered to open with a unique microchip (tag on collar or using identification tag) so that your tuxedo can't access it. When your tuxedo does lose weight the height may not be able to keep the ragdolls food safe.

And this is our solution. I'm training Lelia on the surefeed now and so S can still get into her food, but once she's fully trained, at least we know my cat will be getting all the food she needs and his will be blocked off some extra calories.

I also second the wet food. Our vet actually recommended it to the bf when she told him his cat had to lose a bit of weight.

 

[KarenKat]

She does need to lose weight and considers my cat's bowl (and mine is a grazer) her second lunch. "You didn't eat this right away, Lelia? You saved it for me, right?"

Ah yes, the "you snooze you starve" approach. Olive is so polite when she does this, though. We feed Gohan on the counter, because the boys' feeding area has to be chicken-free due to Trin's IBD, and the only wet food Gohan is liking right now is chicken. He leaves a bit in the bowl though, and as soon as he jumps down Olive is there immediately to make sure that bowl sparkles. But she doesn't jump up until he is done, lol. Olive is part of the clean plate club, and if she ever leaves any in her bowl it probably will warrant an ER visit, lol.

 

[Lisannez]

And that too...

Cats can have major health problems if they go more than 24 hours with food. I would guess the ragdoll is eating when you aren't looking but a blood panel and vet check would probably be a good idea.

Yes she's been checked out. She's a nervous cat. Most of her not eating is when something new happens or if we go away for long periods of time. It seems emotional. We always take her to the vet on the 4th day and it NEVER fails when we bring her home suddenly she starts eating again.

 

[Lisannez]

The problem with dry food is it is high in carbs, which leads to weight retention. Also, Blue Buffalo tends to be an extremely high fat food and many owners have reported weight gain on it. They do have a "weight control" food with lower fat but the carbs are still high and protein lower than ideal. IMO, it's a gimmick title to make people think it is good when really it is just a lower fat version of their normal food.

For weight loss, you want to control calories with a high protein, moderate fat and low carb food while also encouraging activity with daily play sessions. We typically recommend wet food since they tend to have fewer fillers. Plus it has a better water content which can help reduce chances of kidney problems. So you get a more biologically appropriate diet without a ton of carbs. Which means your cat feels Fuller because they are getting protein not carbs and their bodies process it better so you don't get as much midsection pudgy kitty.

Most cats should need around 20 calories per pound as a very rough starting point. Your goal would be to slowly reduce the number of calories she gets per day. Very slowly. We are talking 5 to 10 calorie reduction per week. Start by figuring out how many calories she eats per week then slowly cutting back. It will take time but cats don't diet well in general and going too rapid can be tough on them. If you can, I've found that several smaller meals is better for a food focused cat then two or three larger meals.

For activity, toys work for many cats. Since your cat is food motivated you may need to use treats to get her moving. My guys lover chasing tossed treats across the kitchen and they run for their food. Using freeze dried treats that are just the named meat is a healthier option then temptations just make sure you factor calories into the daily intake. You can also try food puzzles or mazes or hiding treats for her to move around and hunt. Just be careful not to go overboard and account. Total calories for the treats should never be more than 5-10% of her daily calories.

We do have a great weight loss thread... That I can't find but will come back and post when I do.

You might want to look into microchip feeders for your ragdoll. Put the ragdolls food in a feeder triggered to open with a unique microchip (tag on collar or using identification tag) so that your tuxedo can't access it. When your tuxedo does lose weight the height may not be able to keep the ragdolls food safe.

Also here is a body condition chart. Weight and poundage is not an accurate measurement of health. I have three cats 7.5 pounds, 9 pounds and 14.5 pounds. They are all good body condition and there physical size varies though

fat-cat-scale.png

• Kieka
• Feb 1, 2017
• 3

Oh my goodness this is so helpful, thank you for taking the time. I had no idea about dry food being worse for weight gain, but what you said totally makes sense. I am going to look into the different foods and what you provided and come up with a plan between myself and my fiance. Seriously we have asked many a vet and never gotten this type of advice. They all seem to assume we are overfeeding her or giving her treats but I swear we are not, and there is no one else that could be the culprit.

 

[Lisannez]

How frustrating! Kieka and A Azazel already had great recommendations on the wet food. If you want a dry food for snacks or if you aren't home (or fat kitty won't accept wet food) then Dr Elsey's clean Protein kibble is a great low carb kibble to try. Also look at calories and not the recommended amount. The amount on the bag usually overestimates a lot.

We had two boys, and they were very similar for food. They were both free-fed dry food and our tabby, Trin, binge ate and ballooned up to almost 18 lbs, and Gohan nibbled the exact amount of calories he required and stayed quite thin (healthy, but almost two dimensional). We ended up switching from an absolute junk kibble to Natural Balance (is still pretty high in carbs). Trin suddenly stopped binging and started getting very active. Then he naturally lost about 3 lbs over 3 years. So the type of kibble is important.

We just got another cat, Olive, and she is so food obsessed. She became barrel-shaped from free-feeding on the Natural Balance kibble and we switched her to all wet food. She is now fit and trim, and she doesn't beg for food. Wet food to me seems so much more satisfying than a calorie-dense cracker ball - I look at is as eating a power bar instead of a nice big healthy breakfast. Maybe the fat kitty isn't feeling satisfied at mealtimes, and wet food may keep her feeling full.

Good luck, weight loss is a marathon, and you want to go slow! But it's definitely possible!

Oh fat kitty will eat any cat food, although once we had to give her some Rachel Ray Nutrish in a pinch (we were traveling and forgot her food) and she did not overeat that stuff, the dry food. My fiance was under the impression that wet food was worse for weight gain, but I started to suspect it had too many carbs in it. Your information is so helpful, thank you.

 

[KarenKat]

Seriously we have asked many a vet and never gotten this type of advice.

Many vets are uneducated or miseducated on feline nutrition. Many of the classes that they take are paid for and taught by pet food companies like Hills and Purina, so the information they have is very biased. Some vets are great and do independent research, but many are simply telling us what they were taught, which is very outdated and in some ways incorrect.

 

[Lisannez]

We kind of have the same problem except my bf's cat is not quite that fat. She does need to lose weight and considers my cat's bowl (and mine is a grazer) her second lunch. "You didn't eat this right away, Lelia? You saved it for me, right?"



And this is our solution. I'm training Lelia on the surefeed now and so S can still get into her food, but once she's fully trained, at least we know my cat will be getting all the food she needs and his will be blocked off some extra calories.

I also second the wet food. Our vet actually recommended it to the bf when she told him his cat had to lose a bit of weight.

So we were considering this the auto feeder, but I saw videos of the fat cat figuring out when the skinny cat would open the feeder and coming around the back of the feeder and eating from that angle. Do you mind sharing which one worked for you? The automatic feeder? This tuxie is smart. We went away for a few days and left an auto feeder with dry food in it. My fiance built a boxed structure because the cat figured out how to stick her paw up inside the feeder and get more kibble out. Don't you know that cat knocked the feeder over contraption and all and had all the food to herself. Next time he taped the lid on with duct tap and she ripped it off with her paws. We know because we had a go pro on her!

 

[Lisannez]

Ah yes, the "you snooze you starve" approach. Olive is so polite when she does this, though. We feed Gohan on the counter, because the boys' feeding area has to be chicken-free due to Trin's IBD, and the only wet food Gohan is liking right now is chicken. He leaves a bit in the bowl though, and as soon as he jumps down Olive is there immediately to make sure that bowl sparkles. But she doesn't jump up until he is done, lol. Olive is part of the clean plate club, and if she ever leaves any in her bowl it probably will warrant an ER visit, lol.

LOL we always know when the Tuxedo has eaten the Ragdoll's food because she licks the bowl clean, if the bowl is clean then Tuxedo ate it.

 

[Kieka]

LOL we always know when the Tuxedo has eaten the Ragdoll's food because she licks the bowl clean, if the bowl is clean then Tuxedo ate it.

My girl does this to her brothers bowls too, lol. Rocket liked dinner if the bowls are all clean. Luckily, Rocket is my skinny 7.5 pounder so it doesn't make much difference if she has extra.

 

[maggiedemi]

I agree about the canned food. That will help her lose weight and cats need the moisture from it.

 

[Lisannez]

How do you calculate calories from kilocalories is there a converter? Thanks.

 

[KarenKat]

they are actually the same. kcal (or kilocalories) is what we look at for human or feline nutrition. Most people just say "calories" because it's shorter and easier.

 

[Kieka]

Here it is! Mickey, my 27 lbs foster and his journey back to a healthy weight

It's a long thread but very detailed about Mickey's journey.

 

[Lari]

So we were considering this the auto feeder, but I saw videos of the fat cat figuring out when the skinny cat would open the feeder and coming around the back of the feeder and eating from that angle. Do you mind sharing which one worked for you? The automatic feeder? This tuxie is smart. We went away for a few days and left an auto feeder with dry food in it. My fiance built a boxed structure because the cat figured out how to stick her paw up inside the feeder and get more kibble out. Don't you know that cat knocked the feeder over contraption and all and had all the food to herself. Next time he taped the lid on with duct tap and she ripped it off with her paws. We know because we had a go pro on her!

I got the Surefeed for my birthday. S could go around the back and eat too, I guess, but she never tries to get in the bowl while Lelia is eating. We feed them at the same time and when S is done she just moseys on over to see what Lelia didn't eat her first go around once she's left the area.

At the bottom of the feeder there's three options for it closing - you can make it take longer to close if the cat is skittish and scared by it closing, and there's a super fast setting if there's another cat that will rush to the food. Mine's set in the middle setting.