Failed relationship

[jelbeck]

Hi, I’m looking for some suggestions. My spouse and I brought home a 2 month old kitten (Smokey, m) to a 4 year old cat (Ember, f) in June. Unfortunately, it’s been a rough time getting them to warm up to each other. Hired a behaviorist but couldn’t afford to hire her past the introduction so we tried our best with what we had. We learned that Smokey is play aggressive. Also, since we recently moved we learned Ember wasn’t comfortable before bringing home Smokey. Like I said, basically kept making mistakes with this but we were hopefully we could salvage this.
The situation is currently us considering rehoming Smokey due to Ember increasingly aggressive towards us and Smokey. Has anyone else experienced this? Any suggestions or is this a hopeless cause?

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi, so the bottom line is that Ember is extremely unhappy?

 

[susanm9006]

Smokey is a very young kitten and I don’t know that I have ever had a kitten that age who ISN’T “play aggressive”. More time with his siblings and mama would have helped him play better because their squeals and swats would help him understand what is okay.

What kind of aggressive behavior are you seeing from the older cat? Did you keep them separated initially?

 

[BoaztheAdventureCat]

Were Ember and Smokey living together when you got them? Knowing the cats' backstory is key here. If either cat has been a solitary cat, it's going to be much harder for them to know how to behave appropriately around other cats.

Smokey isn't nearly old enough to have extensive damage done. Problem cats are not born but made. I agree with susanm9006 . He should have stayed with his siblings longer so that he could have learned from them what's acceptable play and what's not. I suggest considering bringing home another kitten quickly so that Smokey can have someone close to his age to play with and learn from at the same time. He's driving Ember crazy and it seems to be that she's not going to do a satisfactory job at patiently teaching him a better way.

Even 2 months of being the only kitten was too long for my cat Boaz and to this day there has been damage done. He is socially awkward around other cats and even after being reprimanded by our other cats multiple times, he's so hard-headed that he just doesn't know when to give it up.

 

[xkappax]

I actually had a situation that was VERY similar to this. I had a deaf cat named Ghost and I tried to bring in a very young kitten. Ghost was afraid of the kitten from the very beginning, despite doing everything I could to properly introduce them. As the kitten grew, he just got bolder and pushier towards Ghost. Ghost was always on edge, always growling. I tried to reintroduce them, I tried everything. Things came to head after six months when the kitten (named Vanish) started guarding the litter boxes and preventing Ghost from using them. Ultimately, we ended up responsibly rehoming Vanish, and it was heartbreaking, but in the long run, it was better for both cats. He went to a home with another kitten and he still lives very happily in that home. Really he just needed a cat his age to play around with, and I couldn't provide that.

As far as suggestions, if you can get another kitten for your younger kitty to play with, it might help. Older cats don't really take too kindly to the unlimited energy of kittens.

 

[Alldara]

You can back up the intros. I think us hearing more about the concerning behaviour would be beneficial, or, even further a video of it if you can.

Rehoming really depends on your tolerance for the amount of stress you have over this, and Ember's stress tolerance. If from a rescue, your contract might mandate to return to the rescue. Either way, if you choose this, please recommend that she be rehomed with another energetic cat, regardless of age. Multiple rehomings can cause behavioural issues so it will just be especially important that you be choosey.

A trick I used with Nobel was giving him a treat each time he looked at Magnus without a growl or swat, hissing was okay (at first) if Magnus was getting to close but not if Magnus wasn't doing anything (aka sitting or sleeping without moving). Loads of "good boys!" For any positive interactions and pets if they were nearby.

To add to what B BoaztheAdventureCat said, if you want to adopt another kitten, a great idea would be to get one slightly older, say 4 to 6 months old from a place where they have grown with other cats.

That way, Ember is not completely overwhelmed, but Smokey will be taught how to cat.

Personally, I would intro separately. Show Smokey to new cat and show Ember to new cat separately, each at their own pace. Then let the slower paced cat watch the other two. (Okay this sounds confusing, example at bottom)


* When we got Calcifer we put up the gate and let Magnus and Nobel come to see him separately. This was to be mindful that Nobel has had deffered agression in the past and we didn't want to deteriorate his relationship with Magnus.

Magnus wanted to play pretty quickly but was nervous. After Calcifer stopped growling at Magnus we went straight to a same-room introduction with just the two of them and each of us distracting them with a toy. They hit it off so fast. Magnus was 1.5 and Calcifer was 5 months.

Then, as Nobel became comfortable, he could watch Magnus and Calcifer play from the safety of the other side of the gate. Or on the couch with me. Again loads of treats and pets for Nobel when he watched them without issue. He did try to break up their play sometimes by swatting them away from one another. We usually tried to intercept this behaviour.

 

[catsknowme]

I concur with the other suggestions. Adding a litter mate for Smokey would be ideal or even a kitten of similar age. Almost all of my kittens are from feral colonies. My group of 4 black house panthers are all bonded now but they were quite the mix: Jack & Jill from the same "crop", Twisty from the following spring and Elvis from the autumn after that. I had to frequently reprimand verbally with a "too rough" followed by a loud screech and/or hand clap.
I have various locations for litter boxes to thus avoid the infamous "ambush at the litterbox". I would introduce Ember slowly and display treatment that shows her superior position in the clowder: praise, play, treats first, etc. Also, I encourage confidence building by establishing a higher up performance post, chair or stool for Ember to jump up on to get those treats & comfort grooming.
Perhaps jcat will chime in - they are fluent in "catspeak" and have accomplished what most cat experts deem impossible, including reforming adult, fractious ferals into loving housecats.

 

[jelbeck]

Smokey is a very young kitten and I don’t know that I have ever had a kitten that age who ISN’T “play aggressive”. More time with his siblings and mama would have helped him play better because their squeals and swats would help him understand what is okay.

What kind of aggressive behavior are you seeing from the older cat? Did you keep them separated initially?

We waited about a week before scent swapping, but they were kept apart for about a month before trying to have them engage through the door. They are still kept apart it’s just sometimes Smokey escapes and wants to play with Ember, who then hissed/growls and swats at him. Mostly without claws but there’s been one instance where I did see she had them out and made sure to remove him.

 

[jelbeck]

I appreciate all the suggestions. I will fill in some background on both cats. Ember came from a litter of 4 (3 surviving). Her siblings were more bonded and adopted together. She and I lived with my sibling and their cat for almost 4 years. Their cat was 4 when I adopted Ember at 2 months old. Their cat was also grumpy at kitten behavior (I.e. Ember trying to play with her). Smokey also had siblings but all the kittens were split up. Both my cats came from the same animal rescue, just different times.

When engaging with the behavioralist, she did insight my spouse and I on why Ember might also be overwhelmed by Smokey. We have been trying the “observe Smokey from a safe distance and giving Ember treats” method. I just wasn’t sure if this was typical for cats (seeing from the responses, it might be/might not).

We are going to keep working on this because it might be that Smokey is still just energetic and might grow out of it. Unfortunately, getting another kitten isn’t an option due to the type of home we have and we don’t have the means right now to move. Once again, thank you all.
If I do catch any of the behavior on camera I’ll be sure to add it.

 

[Alldara]

J jelbeck Yes it sounds very normal! Keep at it. It can take quite some time. If you can tire kitten out and allow her to sleep in a communal area that was so helpful to Nobel.

Food enrichment is great for both cats too.

Personally, I found door closed interactions unhelpful and regressive in my home. Baby gates were very helpful.

For reference, Nobel was 14 and it took 6 months to settle him and Magnus together fully. After that positive experience it took only 2 months for Calcifer to be fully "out" of the kitten room. But I would say their bond was fully solidifyed at 10 months. Mostly because Calcifer loves everyone's personal space. Nobel still hisses at him daily to say "Damn youngsters." But he grooms and instigates play with him too.

 

[Meowmee]

Try a re intro maybe and maybe a kitten companion for the kitten so he jumps on kitten instead of the older cat. Good luck! If they are not injuring each other then it is prolly normal kitten/ older cat stuff. How long have they been introduced?

 

[maggie101]

Hi, I’m looking for some suggestions. My spouse and I brought home a 2 month old kitten (Smokey, m) to a 4 year old cat (Ember, f) in June. Unfortunately, it’s been a rough time getting them to warm up to each other. Hired a behaviorist but couldn’t afford to hire her past the introduction so we tried our best with what we had. We learned that Smokey is play aggressive. Also, since we recently moved we learned Ember wasn’t comfortable before bringing home Smokey. Like I said, basically kept making mistakes with this but we were hopefully we could salvage this.
The situation is currently us considering rehoming Smokey due to Ember increasingly aggressive towards us and Smokey. Has anyone else experienced this? Any suggestions or is this a hopeless cause?

My cat Maggie has never accepted Coco but now tolerates her. It's been 4 years. Maggie is clicker trained and leaves Coco alone whenever Coco jumps high. Maggie sleeps on the cat tree, Coco on top of my couch. If Maggie walks by she jumps on the counter or kitchen table. Be sure lots of tlc for the cats!

 

[maggie101]

Maggie very territorial, only a year older and rescued before coco so she did not like someone trying to take her place! Peaches is not and bff with coco