Elder Cat Suddenly Having Accidents

[dogperson2cats]

Hey all! My almost 15 year old cat suddenly started having accidents around the house and they're getting more frequent. He'll go days, even a week or more without them and then BOOM! Poop in the kitchen. He's still acting like himself, eating and drinking.

We're almost at our wits end with it as there's no reason he should be going in the house. Please don't suggest litter boxes. We tried that and thanks to our bitch of a female cat, he refused to use them. (We wouldn't even have the litter in the pan and she'd jump in, force herself to pee and then he'd avoid it as she's very aggressive about sharing a bathroom area.) There's nowhere to put it where only he can use it.

The only option left is getting him put down but we want to hold off until there's a hint something's wrong for real.

 

[KarenKat]

Where does he normally go if there are no litter boxes? Is he indoor/outdoor and he goes outside?

 

[abyeb]

I know you don’t want me to suggest putting in a litterbox, but have you tried putting in multiple litterboxes? That way the cats won’t feel like they have to compete over resources. The typical rule of thumb is one per cat plus one.

 

[furmonster mom]

Is it just poop? or also pee?
When an elderly cat begins to have accidents, I tend to look into urinary or kidney functionality. If it's in the line of loose stools, I'd check into possible digestive issues (food, bacteria). Honestly though, it might be a good time to get a full senior wellness check by the vet; include full blood and urinalysis. Those work ups can often shine a light on problems you might miss otherwise.

 

[Kieka]

I'd start with a vet visit to ensure it isn't something physical going on. Given his age there are a number of problems that could be happening.

How many litter boxes have you set up? Conventional wisdom is you need at least 3 for 2 cats. If you have less that may be the problem. I know when I bred budgies if we didn't adhere to gudielines on numbers it lead to death and injury within the birds. That had a similar rule of three males for every two females and same for nesting boxes. Those types of rules of thumbs do exist for a reason, they won't appllytoevery situation but many.

If you have three boxes for the two cats then you may want to consider doing a microchip locking cat door into a specific room or closet. Then put the litter box on the other side so that only the male has access.

If you truly are at the putting him down point, please find a no kill rescue to take him instead. If the vetfinds nothing physically wrong it is a situational problem. He would deserve the chance to find a better situation if it isn't with your home.

 

[1 bruce 1]

This is tough.
I'd also suggest a vet visit, but if your girl is having a "MINE!!!" marking thing and he won't use the box after her, multiple boxes might work but didn't work for our marking girl who pees on anything she can get near if she thinks another cat is out for claiming it.
If it's within your means, I might suggest a vet visit for both as sometimes territorial stuff can be helped. I don't want to point fingers at anyone but if might be her that's the issue, not him, only because she "claims" the boxes and he's polite enough to say "sure, no big deal" and decides to go elsewhere.
Do these cats get along otherwise? Do you notice any subtle behaviors that would show any kind of "claiming" things like food, the best bed. etc,. from your girl?
I'm not picking on her, most of this is usually rooted in really subtle insecurities and stuff like Feliway can sometimes help this.
Edit: She sounds like our territorial gal but sometimes these things can bring on a UTI which can make things worse, so checking out the female that's "claiming" the boxes can be a help to rule out anything health-related before treating it as a training issue.
They can often be taught that getting along is OK. I'm very glad you haven't jumped to the euthanasia solution before asking for advice.

 

[dogperson2cats]

Where does he normally go if there are no litter boxes? Is he indoor/outdoor and he goes outside?

He, like all our cats, goes outside. But, even then, he'll come in and use the bathroom on the floor.

 

[dogperson2cats]

Yes. We tried that and she claimed all of them in moments.

I know you don’t want me to suggest putting in a litterbox, but have you tried putting in multiple litterboxes? That way the cats won’t feel like they have to compete over resources. The typical rule of thumb is one per cat plus one.

 

[dogperson2cats]

Is it just poop? or also pee?
When an elderly cat begins to have accidents, I tend to look into urinary or kidney functionality. If it's in the line of loose stools, I'd check into possible digestive issues (food, bacteria). Honestly though, it might be a good time to get a full senior wellness check by the vet; include full blood and urinalysis. Those work ups can often shine a light on problems you might miss otherwise.

Do YOU want to pay the five grand?! No joke; called the vet and asked for an estimate of the cost and it came up to $4980-ish. Besides; the vet is only interested in helping if you're rich. Otherwise he only fixes or euthanizes them.

 

[dogperson2cats]

I'd start with a vet visit to ensure it isn't something physical going on. Given his age there are a number of problems that could be happening.

How many litter boxes have you set up? Conventional wisdom is you need at least 3 for 2 cats. If you have less that may be the problem. I know when I bred budgies if we didn't adhere to gudielines on numbers it lead to death and injury within the birds. That had a similar rule of three males for every two females and same for nesting boxes. Those types of rules of thumbs do exist for a reason, they won't appllytoevery situation but many.

If you have three boxes for the two cats then you may want to consider doing a microchip locking cat door into a specific room or closet. Then put the litter box on the other side so that only the male has access.

If you truly are at the putting him down point, please find a no kill rescue to take him instead. If the vetfinds nothing physically wrong it is a situational problem. He would deserve the chance to find a better situation if it isn't with your home.

We cannot afford or obtain that stuff here. My family believes it's more inhumane to rehome our pets because nobody will love them like we do and we'd be breaking their hearts.

Also the elder is a rescue from a hoarding and breeding place that we bottle fed. He'd gone feral by the time we got him but he was too underweight and weak from flea and tick infestation to really do much.

And given the fact he's sent kids and myself to the ER (he goes for the eyes and throat), nobody in their right minds would take him. (Nor would I let them as I'm sure harm would come to him.)

 

[KarenKat]

Wow that is crazy expensive. Not sure where you live or what services they offered but we just took our 10 year tabby for his senior checkup in California (he’s been having a bout of diarrhea). We didn’t do everything on the vet’s list (said no to dental and some other things) but for about $500 he got a checkup, is getting full blood work, and they took a fecal sample. Maybe a second opinion, or only do services that would fit his immediate needs rather than all the bells and whistles?

 

[dogperson2cats]

This is tough.
I'd also suggest a vet visit, but if your girl is having a "MINE!!!" marking thing and he won't use the box after her, multiple boxes might work but didn't work for our marking girl who pees on anything she can get near if she thinks another cat is out for claiming it.
If it's within your means, I might suggest a vet visit for both as sometimes territorial stuff can be helped. I don't want to point fingers at anyone but if might be her that's the issue, not him, only because she "claims" the boxes and he's polite enough to say "sure, no big deal" and decides to go elsewhere.
Do these cats get along otherwise? Do you notice any subtle behaviors that would show any kind of "claiming" things like food, the best bed. etc,. from your girl?
I'm not picking on her, most of this is usually rooted in really subtle insecurities and stuff like Feliway can sometimes help this.
Edit: She sounds like our territorial gal but sometimes these things can bring on a UTI which can make things worse, so checking out the female that's "claiming" the boxes can be a help to rule out anything health-related before treating it as a training issue.
They can often be taught that getting along is OK. I'm very glad you haven't jumped to the euthanasia solution before asking for advice.

Again; our vet is a scumbag so it's almost 5K.

She's never really been a claimer per say. Spoiled, yeah. They shared a litter box for 18 months as my girlie was too weak to get spayed right away. (Sad backstory condensed: Some monster killed her mom and littermates but since she was the runt, he just hacked her tail off and left her.) This behavior is new and baffling.

They have their own bowls but will often take turns eating from the same one and sleep in the same general area. They tolerate each other at best. Sometimes canoodling in front of the fire, other times not even letting the other in the room. But it's mostly peaceful between them. Heck, the female actually almost killed a feral male twice her size for attacking the elderly one. (Took his eye out and part of an ear. She's not mean at all otherwise.)

We've been talking of getting him put down anyway as he's been showing his age more and more. That's what we're blaming for his accidents. (He's got arthritis in his hips and cannot retract his claws anymore. Plus he's lost his teeth and my mom is convinced his hearing is going. I don't know as he's always been stubborn about answering to anybody but my father.) But, he's not showing any discomfort or otherwise unusual behavior.

 

[Columbine]

I strongly suggest that you look for a more reasonably priced vet. A vet check is essential when dealing with litterbox avoidance, as there is very often a physical root cause - especially with older cats. As mentioned already, urinary or kidney issues can be the cause. Arthritic changes can also be responsible, as can feline dementia or even plain old stress/anxiety. You can only treat the symptom (going outside of the box) once the cause has been established.
How To Solve Litterbox Problems In Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Litterbox Problems? Here's Why You Should Call Your Vet
Health Concerns In Aging Cats
When Physical Problems Turn Into Behavior Problems

 

[dogperson2cats]

Wow that is crazy expensive. Not sure where you live or what services they offered but we just took our 10 year tabby for his senior checkup in California (he’s been having a bout of diarrhea). We didn’t do everything on the vet’s list (said no to dental and some other things) but for about $500 he got a checkup, is getting full blood work, and they took a fecal sample. Maybe a second opinion, or only do services that would fit his immediate needs rather than all the bells and whistles?

My vet is an ass. My mom actually priced the basics just now...
To see the cat: $80
Urine test: $200
Poop sample: $250
Blood work: $150
(Choice of either Xray ($200), CAT scan ($250-300), or ultrasound ($150). )

Pretty much the 5K is if we want him to try medications, give the cat an IV and involves a couple days stay. He then tried to guilt us for not choosing that option ("he's family so treat him as such") He even brought up our dog that died during a storm because someone gave him antifreeze laced treats.

I hate the vet but he's all we got...

 

[dogperson2cats]

I strongly suggest that you look for a more reasonably priced vet. A vet check is essential when dealing with litterbox avoidance, as there is very often a physical root cause - especially with older cats. As mentioned already, urinary or kidney issues can be the cause. Arthritic changes can also be responsible, as can feline dementia or even plain old stress/anxiety. You can only treat the symptom (going outside of the box) once the cause has been established.
How To Solve Litterbox Problems In Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Litterbox Problems? Here's Why You Should Call Your Vet
Health Concerns In Aging Cats
When Physical Problems Turn Into Behavior Problems

There's only one vet here and that jerk is it.

Old boy isn't avoiding the litter; he's respecting my young cats space.(He tried to use it, had even peed some. But, she caught him and yelled at him. She screams like a human woman sometimes.) He still goes outside on his own and does his business while out like normal. (Yes we monitor what he does.)

But, he'll be inside for a short while and suddenly, will leave a mess in the kitchen.

 

[Columbine]

It does sound to me like the beginnings of dementia may be the root cause here. My old greyhound had dementia, and he'd sometimes either forget where he was and just 'go', or else not realise he needed to with sufficient time to get outside.

Does your boy have certain places that he goes inside? If so, puppy pee pads might be the answer. We had those down in all of my boy's toilet spots, and it made clean up SO much easier. They're reasonably priced too, and don't (in my experience) encourage other animals to use them. Might be worth a try?

 

[dogperson2cats]

Huh...my mom suggested that just now. She's looking into that.

Smack dab in the middle of the kitchen floor. Very inconvenient.

Greyhounds are so freaking cute. Too bad about the high prey drive though...can't have that with cats. (I know all dogs have that potentially but only greys get mentioned usually.)

Given all I've mentioned, with the arthritis and claw issues and whatnot, if we DID get him put down, would we be "bad" owners? We'd want him to go peacefully and with some quality of life. You know; not totally unhappy or suffering but not as great as normal/should be. Kind of on the fence, if you will.

 

[Columbine]

FYI, not all greyhounds are bad with cats (though some definitely are). My guy was wonderful with the cats, and my girl particularly used to watch over him at night

Given the pain he must be in from the arthritis etc, I wouldn't label you a bad owner if you did go the euthanasia route. Personally, I'd want to work with him and a vet a little more first, to see if any of these issues could be even partially resolved with treatment. However, I'm fortunate enough to have a vet I like and trust (and who has very reasonable prices). Looking at your costing breakdown, I can say that I wouldn't go for any testing that required an anaesthetic with a 15 year old cat (and what's more, my vets wouldn't advise it either). That rules out the scans/xrays. To be honest, my instinct is that this is likely related to the arthritis or dementia rather than anything else, especially if both poop and pee appear normal (consistency, volume etc). I think I might have the bloodwork done, as that will show up anything internal and might help you in making that final decision, and either leave it at that, or do the poop and pee samples alongside if you want to rule out those as issues too.

Don't let your vet guilt you into the whole $5k worth of testing. The risks of an anaesthetic with an older cat are just too high, unless something specific is suspected and the outcome would change your treatment plan for him. Yes, he's a member of your family, but humans don't need sedating to have these scans done, making the risk negligible. It's about safety and health, NOT about how much he means to you...in my view, anyway

I do understand how frustrating 'accidents' are, but in part I think it just goes along with having elderly animals. Maybe experiment with the pee pads and give it a little while. At the same time, try and really watch his behaviour, demeanour etc, so you can make up a truly honest list about his quality of life right now. That might help you in making that final decision. I'm so sorry I can't be of more help. You might find these helpful too:-
Arthritis And Joint Pain In Cats
When Is It Time? - Making The Difficult Decision

 

[dogperson2cats]

Yeah, I know. Honestly, I've met more problematic small dogs than I ever have any other breed. (My dog was a pit bull mix and was the most sociable, friendly and otherwise amazing thing EVER.)

My vet doesn't put the pets under to do that unless it's 100% necessary. He gets the owners or his assistant to restrain the animals. (Claiming it's easier. Maybe right but mostly he wants moolah.) I agree with you but we can't afford that right now. We had money saved for getting a stray we feed fixed but unexpected job loss and personal family matters drained that pretty quick. (We're not struggling to pay bills or groceries; including flea/tick/worm treatments and necessities for all the animals we have) but any other expenses are a different matter. We DO intend on getting our senior to the vet sometime; likely when we get the stray fixed. Since we feel no sense of urgency from him, we're in no real rush and poking savings away when we can.

Trust me; we're not. Even if we COULD afford that, we know he's full of it. This...jerk has cost us pets before. (Suddenly jacked up spaying price by $400+ and gave us the run-around as to why. We sent that cat to live on a farm; literally. She's currently living like royalty and we get monthly updates and pictures. The vet only does cats and dogs in a town where people own just about every animal; including coydogs and livestock. So you can imagine how we're all being screwed. I asked him if he could file my guinea pigs teeth or put me in contact with someone who did so I could work out a payment plan and he just laughed and hung up on me. Piggy passed away just after my birthday because her teeth were overgrown.) I love money as much as the next one but he's a vet for that reason only...I bet he doesn't even have a pet of his own!

I don't know about what's normal for senior pets...mine don't usually live that long. (We only rescue pets so most have had horrible starts to life that took years off their lifespan. The senior came at 2.5 months old, was the size of a newborn, had been thrown off a balcony and almost drowned plus was so infested with fleas and ticks that if you touched him, you were covered. And on top of that, he was the runt. We thought it was going to be hospice for cats with him. But...he's too stubborn to let that stop him. (He's currently asleep next to me, snoring.)

 

[Columbine]

Wow, your vet really does sound like a nightmare. I'm so sorry you're in that position, and sorrier still that this cost you your guinea pig's life

Your old boy was so lucky he found you, and it sounds like you've given him (and your other animals) a wonderful life. Keep hold of that, no matter what. If I had your vet I'd be thinking more than twice about taking any if my guys there, especially in this situation. I think your best bet is trying the pee pads in the poop spots for a while, and just watching/observing closely to make an honest judgement about his quality of life. If you do decide it's time, do so without guilt, knowing that you've given him a wonderful life

It might be worth contacting some cat charities to get their take on things. Sometimes they can offer lower cost vet care or other support, and they might even know of a different or mobile vet to try. It never hurts to reach out and ask There's a list of organisations at the end of this article - No Money For Vet Care? How To Find Help And Save Your Cat's Life

I'm just sorry you have to deal with that awful sounding vet. Vets like that shouldn't be allowed to practice