Do we need to add extra vitamins?

[pisces7386]

So I've been making most of our raw ground food with alnutrin mixes, but I have been looking at making the food according to the percentages for frankenprey (80-10-5-5). My question is this: All the ground recipes I see (that don't use commercial mixes) call for extra vitamins in addition to the meat, calcium source, liver, and secreting organ.  Are these extra vitamins really needed? Do people who feed frankenprey add these extra vitamins?  If the vitamins are needed in the ground recipes, and frakenprey-ers don't add them extra, what is the difference that makes the ground need the extra supplementation over the frankenprey? I just don't see a difference, and it is making me worried that I am missing something and feeding the cats wrong

 

[vball91]

The difference between ground food and frankenprey is the grinding process. There is some amount of nutrient loss from the oxidation process that occurs with grinding. How much nutrient loss occurs isn't that clear, but that is one of the major reasons for supplementing ground food.

There is some debate amongst frankenprey feeders about the need for additional supplementation. Some do not supplement at all. Some still do supplement. There are nutrients like choline, vitamin D and omega 3s that are difficult to get from a "pure" frankenprey diet. You can supplement with egg yolks and fish oil instead of or in addition to frankenprey.

Unfortunately, we do not know exactly what the nutritional needs of cats are. We do our best to extrapolate from the limited studies available. AAFCO guidelines are an additional way to determine nutritional guidelines.

 

[pisces7386]

AH! Oxidation! Thank you VBall!! I was searching and searching and couldn't figure out why there would be a difference just because we were chopping it up. I also had a hard time with all the different lists of supplements... but now that you say it I see that the fish oil and egg yolk are the only two that were consistently in each recipe. 

I suppose it can't hurt to add some fish oil and egg yolk... and we have already been giving them egg yolk or sardines as a treat here and there (all three love it), now we'll just buy some fish oil and figure out how often we should 'treat' them

 

[vball91]

Egg yolks are very nutritious. Aim for 1-2 egg yolks a week. Sardines (canned or pouched with spring water only, no salt) are also good, about once a week. It's good they like both.

Fish oil is tricky. Human grade supplements are much higher quality. Named fish like salmon and krill oils are better than unknown fish oils. Some cats like it sprinkled on their food but many don't. Start with small amounts.

 

[roguethecat]

it also depends on how long you keep stuff in the freezer - the amount of taurine, for example, will go down because of degeneration (this is talking months, not weeks). So for the water-soluble nutrients, its best to err on the high side if you don't make new batches every Saturday.

Additionally, unless you can afford grass-fed free roaming meat 

 you just don't have the omega369s you find in a cat's original prey.

(I did some experimenting with gutloading crickets with omegas, but the Rogue

  muscled his way through and ate them all, so I went back to a dish of ground to get eggs into all the beasties)

 

[pisces7386]

Thank you all so much, this is great information! 

 Just to make sure I am reading this right....

   I feed about one lb total to my three cats each day... which means seven lbs a week.  They eat this in two big meals and a bedtime snack

   My recipe is 6 lbs meat/skin/fat, 6 oz liver, 6 oz secreting organ, approx 3 tsp eggshell powder, and about 1/2 to 3/4 cup water. 

   I have been replacing one meal about once a week with sardines (usually bedtime snack) and giving them the egg yolk from my breakfast (split between all three) when I eat eggs fro breakfast (maybe twice a week). 

   Should I add 3 to 6 egg yolks into the weekly mix? If so, how long can I save egg yolk separated from the yolk... meaning can I collect them up from breakfast and mix them in at the end of the week?)

   And how much fish oil should I add to the mix? If I replace a meal with sardines should I decrease the amount of fish oil for the week?

 

[peaches08]

 
Thank you all so much, this is great information! 

 Just to make sure I am reading this right....

   I feed about one lb total to my three cats each day... which means seven lbs a week.  They eat this in two big meals and a bedtime snack

   My recipe is 6 lbs meat/skin/fat, 6 oz liver, 6 oz secreting organ, approx 3 tsp eggshell powder, and about 1/2 to 3/4 cup water. 

   I have been replacing one meal about once a week with sardines (usually bedtime snack) and giving them the egg yolk from my breakfast (split between all three) when I eat eggs fro breakfast (maybe twice a week). 

   Should I add 3 to 6 egg yolks into the weekly mix? If so, how long can I save egg yolk separated from the yolk... meaning can I collect them up from breakfast and mix them in at the end of the week?)

   And how much fish oil should I add to the mix? If I replace a meal with sardines should I decrease the amount of fish oil for the week?

I mix the egg yolks into the whole batch before portioning it into containers.  If you have an ice cube tray, you might could freeze the yolks individually and then thaw what you need?

Fish oil I also add to the whole batch, I use www.catinfo.org recipe.  I average about 5000 mg per 3 lbs of meat/bones/skin.  When I give sardines, I don't worry about fish oil in their ground food. 

 

[pisces7386]

Thank you peaches! And all of you! I think I am ready for this new recipe!