Do I Need To Add Supplements To This Food?

[Callaloo]

I bought a pound of cat food from this company. Wondering if I should be adding supplements. They use the 80-10-10 formula. The guy at the store said the only difference between the cat mix and the other mixes for dogs is that there is more heart in the cat version because cats need more taurine, and the pièces are smaller because cats' mouths and teeth and smaller than dogs'. And they don't mention anything about supplementation.

Free-Range Chicken for Cats | Naturaw Canine Food

INGREDIENTS
Whole chicken, chicken organs (liver, heart, giblets)

GUARANTEED NUTRITION
The organs we use in our mixes are liver, lung, heart, kidneys because they add nutritional value.

Liver - zinc, manganese, selenium, iron, Vitamins B1, B2, B3, B5, B12, C, biotin, folacin and essential fatty acids.

Kidneys – protein, essential fatty acids, vitamins A, D, E, K, B1, B2, B3, B5, B, iron and zinc

Heart – protein, B vitamins, iron, essential fatty acids and taurine

Lung – Vitamin C, Iron, protein, potassium


It comes in small chunks of meat and very small pieces of bone. Nothing is ground.

Most raw recipes I've seen online calls for meat, bones, organs and supplements but they're selling this mix as a complete meal. And commercial brand raw meat cat foods also includes supplements. I'm wondering if I still need to add supplements to this food? What if I bought the other types of meat mixes that they sell for dogs (beef, rabbit etc) and add taurine? Would I still need to add supplements or would the rotation of different types of protein suffice?

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
I'm not a member who's familiar with raw, but hopefully one of the raw feeders has a chance to pop in for you, or this post might help--or not, as it's maybe not as straightforward as a person might wish...

Prey Model Raw

 

[Wile]

I'm not really sure if this is a complete food, but I don't see any reference to iodine being added to it. Meat contains some iodine naturally, but as I understand it not enough to meet a cat's daily needs. This topic was discussed recently on this sub forum here: Does Raw Fed Cat Need An Iodine Supplement?

Honestly I'm not too sure that I would trust this company. They make some strange claims on their website that set off a few alarm bells for me, such as that it is beneficial to fast your pet for a full day every week.

 

[Callaloo]

Hi!
I'm not a member who's familiar with raw, but hopefully one of the raw feeders has a chance to pop in for you, or this post might help--or not, as it's maybe not as straightforward as a person might wish...

Prey Model Raw

Yeah they seem to be asking a lot of the same questions I am. Looks like there isn't a clear answer about whether supplementation is needed.

I'm not really sure if this is a complete food, but I don't see any reference to iodine being added to it. Meat contains some iodine naturally, but as I understand it not enough to meet a cat's daily needs. This topic was discussed recently on this sub forum here: Does Raw Fed Cat Need An Iodine Supplement?

Honestly I'm not too sure that I would trust this company. They make some strange claims on their website that set off a few alarm bells for me, such as that it is beneficial to fast your pet for a full day every week.

I contacted the company to ask if supplements are needed and they said that I you rotate different proteins throughout the week that it's not necessary.

The fasting thing is weird :S

 

[mschauer]

There are people who feed a raw diet to their pets who believe that as long as the 80/10/10 (sometimes 80/10/5/5) rule is followed the food will replicate a cats natural diet and so no nutrient supplementation is necessary.

Others look at a food composed of meat and random organs and don't see how can be the equivalent of freshly killed small rodents, birds, lizards and insects that make up a cats true natural diet and so question how it can provide all the nutrients a cat needs.

Iodine is a clear example. Most iodine is stored in the thyroid gland which would be consumed by a cat eating whole prey in a natural environment. Any home-made raw food that doesn't include thyroid gland than can not be claimed to be providing the same nutrients as is found in a cats natural diet.

From the web site of the company you linked to:

Whole animals as well as tripe naturally have a balanced ratio of nutrients.

But their products are not whole animals. There is no head and not all organs are included. They do include lung and kidney which is more than most products claimed to be complete have.

 

[mschauer]

I contacted the company to ask if supplements are needed and they said that I you rotate different proteins throughout the week that it's not necessary.

I would ask them what standard they are using to determine what is "necessary". It may be little more than a strongly held personal belief.

 

[Callaloo]

There are people who feed a raw diet to their pets who believe that as long as the 80/10/10 (sometimes 80/10/5/5) rule is followed the food will replicate a cats natural diet and so no nutrient supplementation is necessary.

Others look at a food composed of meat and random organs and don't see how can be the equivalent of freshly killed small rodents, birds, lizards and insects that make up a cats true natural diet and so question how it can provide all the nutrients a cat needs.

Iodine is a clear example. Most iodine is stored in the thyroid gland which would be consumed by a cat eating whole prey in a natural environment. Any home-made raw food that doesn't include thyroid gland than can not be claimed to be providing the same nutrients as is found in a cats natural diet.

From the web site of the company you linked to:

But their products are not whole animals. There is no head and not all organs are included. They do include lung and kidney which is more than most products claimed to be complete have.

So I gather that you're of the second opinion, that unless one is feeding their cat actual whole animals, you have to supplement.

The shipping cost of the Alnutrin Meat & Bone to Canada is more than the cost of the actual product lmao. Welp. Do you know of any others?

If not, I know that there's a recipe on feline-nutrition.org for supplements to add to pre-ground mixes.

I would ask them what standard they are using to determine what is "necessary". It be little more than a strongly held personal belief.

Yeah you're probably right.

 

[mschauer]

So I gather that you're of the second opinion, that unless one is feeding their cat actual whole animals, you have to supplement.

That's not quite what I said. It certainly is possible to come up with a collection of animal parts that together would provide the nutritional equivalent of a cats natural diet. I just think the 80/10/10 rule is too simplistic.

The shipping cost of the Alnutrin Meat & Bone to Canada is more than the cost of the actual product lmao. Welp. Do you know of any others?

I'm not familiar with products available in Canada. Alnutrin is probably the cheapest US product.

If not, I know that there's a recipe on feline-nutrition.org for supplements to add to pre-ground mixes.

That recipe has been used by many with very good results. Adding your own supplements rather than using a pre-mix is more than likely always going to be the cheapest way to go.

 

[Callaloo]

That's not quite what I said. It certainly is possible to come up with a collection of animal parts that together would provide the nutritional equivalent of a cats natural diet. I just think the 80/10/10 rule is too simplistic.

I'm not familiar with products available in Canada. Alnutrin is probably the cheapest US product.

That recipe has been used by many with very good results. Adding your own supplements rather than using a pre-mix is more than likely always going to be the cheapest way to go.

Yeah that's what I meant. That you don't believe the 80/10/10 alone is enough.

Looks like I have some supplement shopping to do.

 

[Wile]

The shipping cost of the Alnutrin Meat & Bone to Canada is more than the cost of the actual product lmao. Welp. Do you know of any others?

If not, I know that there's a recipe on feline-nutrition.org for supplements to add to pre-ground mixes.

I use the Hilary's blend supplement, which is only available in Canada. You can buy it through your vet. A jar of it, which lasts me a month and a half, costs around $25.

Usually it is used for cooked recipes. That being said, the website does mention that you can use it for raw feeding as well. You do have to follow the recipes in her cookbook though, which are usually boneless meat blended with oils and the powdered mix.

 

[mschauer]

Yeah that's what I meant. That you don't believe the 80/10/10 alone is enough.

Yup. This statement :

I contacted the company to ask if supplements are needed and they said that I you rotate different proteins throughout the week that it's not necessary.

... actually shows that even they don't believe each of their products (which seem to be 80/10/10 inspired) is nutritionally complete but requires the feeding of additional products to make a complete diet. But, they offer no guidance as to what is missing in each product and which additional products will provide what is missing.

 

[mschauer]

Usually it is used for cooked recipes. That being said, the website does mention that you can use it for raw feeding as well. You do have to follow the recipes in her cookbook though, which are usually boneless meat blended with oils and the powdered mix.

Yeah, be sure not to use ground meats that include bone with a supplement mix meant to be used with boneless meat. You'll likely end up with too much calcium in your finished food.