Definition/description of smoke?

[GoldyCat]

I took some of my girls to a show last weekend (HHP). I've always entered Miss Patchwillow as a black & white bicolor. One of the judges said she is a black smoke and white. I'm sure it's been covered before, but could somebody tell me exactly what constitutes a smoke?

No other judges have ever commented on her color, except to say how brilliant the contrast is between the black and white. I think this is the same judge who told me Iris is a brown patched mackerel ticked tabby.

As far as I know, changing the color on the entries will not affect any points she has won as an HHP. I'm just curious.

 

[ferriscat]

A smoke is genetically a black cat with the dominant inhibitor gene. This is the same gene that makes brown tabbies silver.

You will want to check the base of her black fur. If it is white (or even a light grey or yellow) then she is a smoke. The white undercoat shows through the most at the neck and behind the ears. Sometimes smokes have "goggles" around their eyes. But sometimes they appear as solid black cats until their fur is parted and then the white undercoat is exposed.

Please see my recent posts regarding my new show kittens for an extreme example of a smoke where generations of breeding has selected for the highest expression of the ghost tabby pattern. I can post some more pictures of other smoke examples later.

Smoke is a very rare color and is not commonly seen in the random cat population, but it does exist.

Hope this helps!

 

[skewch]

Goldy, I have two Devons that are black smoke. Oreo is a black smoke tuxedo. The underneath of her black is grey. It appears all over but most noticeable on the back of her neck where her fur is thinner.

My other one is her father and he's defintely smoke as he has the same color as Oreo. He also has brown in his fur but that has nothing to do with the smoke color in the base layer.

It's a cool look to a cat, in my opinion.

 

[goldenkitty45]

Smoke can be black, blue, red, or cream colors as well as torties, etc.

Smoke means the base of the hair is white color and the rest of the hair shaft is the color (black, blue, etc.) Depending on the amount of white vs color determines if the cat is a smoke, shaded or chinchilla.

Smoke has the most color and a little white while shaded is about 1/2 and 1/2 and chinchilla is just the tips with color, rest is white.

 

[ferriscat]

Here are some images of different smokes so that you can compare them to Miss patchwillow. You can get a lot of variation with the color. All of these are smoke females out of the same dam (silver.)


Cori

A good smoke will have a very dark black over a very white undercoat. In the Mau we want to see a pattern, however, this in not the case in the majority of other breeds. Notice how the whit undercoat is much more apparent in the areas I mentioned earlier?


Ziggy

This cat has a stronger ghost pattern, so even more of the white undercoat shows through.


Thriller

Sometimes the black color gets a little more washed out. This smoke kitten was assessed as pet quality (not just because of color) however the color still is pretty, just not black enough.

 

[GoldyCat]

Thanks for the help. From the descriptions I would say that Miss Patchwillow is definitely a smoke (or possibly shaded, I haven't measured the hairs). Here is a picture of her fur. None of the white shows through when it's laying flat, but she does have white at the base of every bit of black, even on her tail.

 

[ferriscat]

She is not a shaded, she is a smoke. The Shaded and Chinchilla descriptions tend to be reserved for long hair cats.

 

[GoldyCat]

Originally Posted by FerrisCat

She is not a shaded, she is a smoke. The Shaded and Chinchilla descriptions tend to be reserved for long hair cats.

Thanks. It's always such a surprise, even though I know the white is there. I think maybe no other judge has noticed it because most of them don't bother to lift the fur in the short hair HHP's. I suppose if I put smoke in the color description they would probably check the next time.

 

[ferriscat]

You are correct, a judge who knows how to assess the color will flip back to look at the contrast between the black and the undercoat.

I always feel a little cheated when a judge neglects to check the undercoat on my smokes, like they didn't give me a fair shake for my entry fee

 

[GoldyCat]

Originally Posted by FerrisCat

You are correct, a judge who knows how to assess the color will flip back to look at the contrast between the black and the undercoat.

I always feel a little cheated when a judge neglects to check the undercoat on my smokes, like they didn't give me a fair shake for my entry fee

I'm thinking that since the color in HHP is not critical to the judging, they probably aren't as thorough as they are with the purebred cats. They're looking more at health and personality (read: CAT-itude). I think I'll add smoke to the color on my next entry, just to see what happens.

 

[goldenkitty45]

In HHP they may or may not check - some check if they happen to notice it when the cat moves. BTW there are shorthairs that come in shaded and chinchilla colors - not popular, but I've seen them from time to time. Usually in the shaded cameo (shaded red) or black chinchilla Brits or American SH.

 

[c1atsite]

Originally Posted by GoldyCat

could somebody tell me exactly what constitutes a smoke?

It came up in one of my threads recently. I got this answer:
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=10

I wouldn't know how to put it into words , but a picture's worth a thousand words

 

[GoldyCat]

I'm trying to figure out if Shareena might be a smoke as well. She's blue and white, but her white isn't nearly as bright as Miss Patchwillow's. It's more of an off-white. In the blue parts her fur gets lighter toward the roots, but doesn't look really white. I don't have a picture of hers because she won't hold still long enough for me to hit the shutter release.

 

[ferriscat]

A few questions that might help in lieu of a photo.

1) Is she related to Miss Patchwillow? The inhibitor gene is dominant, but still rare in the domestic population. It would be more likely that she is a smoke if she is already related to a smoke.
2) Does she have tabby stripes in her blue? Blue tabbies have a patina, or pale creamy base. Some patinas are warm and peachy, others much more pale and beige in color. Just want to make sure you're not mistaking patina for smoke.


edit:

I just read their profiles. Yes, at the very least there is a 50/50 chance of Shareena also being a smoke since her sister is one. At most, a 100% chance if one of her parents had two copies of the inhibitor gene. Very cool!

 

[GoldyCat]

Shareena and Miss Patchwillow are littermates, so we know they have at least the same mother. It's anybody's guess about the father(s).

I got picture of Shareena rolling around on the patio. I've never seen any tabby striping on her, just solid-looking gray. It's hard to get an accurate photo of her. Her fur always looks darker in the pictures than in real life.


The color change in her fur is much more subtle than Miss Patchwillow's. As I said, I'm not really sure it goes to white, just a lighter gray. Ignore the little bits of junk in her fur. She doesn't have dandruff. It's stuff she picked up rolling around on the flagstones.

 

[alleygirl]

Originally Posted by FerrisCat

Smoke is a very rare color and is not commonly seen in the random cat population, but it does exist.

Hope this helps!

I have proof of that!

A friend of mine has a smoke that came as a kitten from a local feral population. He is an adult now, and lives in her house but is still very feral so I don't have any recent pictures, but here is his kitten pictures. He's very beautiful!

 

[nekochan]

Originally Posted by GoldyCat

I'm thinking that since the color in HHP is not critical to the judging, they probably aren't as thorough as they are with the purebred cats. They're looking more at health and personality (read: CAT-itude). I think I'll add smoke to the color on my next entry, just to see what happens.

There is a 'crossbreed' cat (one parent is an Oriental, the other another breed) that I've seen in some of the HHP competitions who is a black smoke. When the judges look at that cat they always check the undercoat and then almost always comment on her color, and sometimes they show the audience the white undercoat and explain what 'smoke' is as well.
When the judges look at my cat Harlequin's info I've noticed them checking her color versus what is listed and sometimes they seem surprised that she actually is 'ticked'. I've also had some comment on the ticking pattern. She is a brown ticked torbie and white (or a brown ticked patched tabby and white depending on who you ask) and I guess it's not very common in non purebreds.

I wanted to mention though I've noticed a lot of black cats do have a lighter color at the roots even if they're not smoke (not a WHITE undercoat like Miss Patchwillow's, but greyish.)

 

[northernglow]

The cat is definitely a smoke.

Originally Posted by FerrisCat

The Shaded and Chinchilla descriptions tend to be reserved for long hair cats.

Wut?! Noooo, I haz teh shaded, this is my shaded silver British Shorthair Kuura, not a rarity:

Another thing to know if a cat is smoke or shaded (even though it's hard to get them mixed with each other as they usually doesn't look anything alike) is that smoke is solid (non-agouti) and shaded is pattern (Agouti).

We have lots of silvers in our DSH population, but I've been told that it's not from crossbreeding. I know several smoke DSHs.

 

[ferriscat]

I said "tend to be" which does not mean "all." There is a huge difference between what I literally said and the meaning some of you have derived from it.

The BSH and ASH shaded and chinchilla colors don't have much of a presence out here. I show twice a week on average, though at times I'll go every weekend. I've never seen one in either breed, and I get to spend a lot of time watching those breeds get judged

Out here, most BSH tend to be blue, blue creams, and creams (sometimes with white) and Americans tend to be silver, red, and brown classic tabbies (again, sometimes with white)

 

[northernglow]

Originally Posted by FerrisCat

I said "tend to be" which does not mean "all." There is a huge difference between what I literally said and the meaning some of you have derived from it.

I know what you meant, my point was to bring out that atleast over here we have lots of shaded and chinchilla shorthairs, actually we have more SHs than LHs in these colors. I don't show often, but when I do there are lots of shadeds and chinchillas in our 'British section', but I think I've only seen 2 or 3 Persians around in these colors (and can't recall seen any other longhair breeds with these colors). Of course we have other colors as well, but shaded silvers are very popular here.
So basically what I mean is that here it's almost the opposite: 'The Shaded and Chinchilla descriptions tend to be reserved for shorthair cats'.

Back in the 70s and 80s it was more of a 'longhair thing'.

As I wrote earlier, we have lots of silvers in our DSH population, but I've never seen a shaded or chinchilla DSH, lots of smokes though.