Debating Neutering Cat

[Feste]

We have three cats: an older female cat (spayed), and intact male cat (5) and and younger male cat (also intact). They are indoors only, so there is no risk of unwanted pregnancies or serious cat fights. Our middle cat, male who is 5, recently took to chasing our older female cat, and he will corner her and occasionally bat at her. He doesn’t hiss or bite. But that is enough to scare her (She is perfectly fine with the younger cat. She occasionally bats at him, if he is super annoying and trying to encroach on her food bowl.). And she hides most of the day on top of the fridge. Besides chasing her, he is well mannered and gets along fine with the younger cat, whom he allo-grooms. He does occasionally spray when stressed, but it has never been a nuisance. In fact, he taught himself how to use the toilet and prefers it to the litter box. I am on the fence about having him neutered, as I am unsure it will fix the tension between the older female and him. Does anyone have any experience with this?

We have tried all manner of pheromone plug-ins, calming collars and drops. And my partner believes in bodily autonomy for all living creatures, so we have been debating the ethical dilemma.

 

[catloverfromwayback]

I would do it, simply because accidents do happen and if he got out in pursuit of a female in heat, he'd likely father yet more unwanted kittens and get ripped up in fights.

 

[heatherwillard0614]

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6 Benefits of Neutering or Spaying a Cat: Vet-Reviewed Facts | Hepper

Spaying or neutering your cat may seem cruel, but leaving your cat intact can cause more harm than good. Learn about the benefits of spaying or neutering your cat here...

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The links provided goes over some of the health and behavioral benefits of neutering male
The second link has benefits not listed in the first one

 

[mmdesolate]

Even ignoring the chance of either boy getting out by accident and impregnating the entire feral cat population of your neighbourhood, neutered cats tend to live longer and have less behaviour issues so you should probably get both of them neutered.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

By aII means, I'm in favor of neutering for both physicaI and psychoIogicaI reasons. Neutering eIiminates the danger of some hormone-driven cancers, and totaIIy removes the possibiIity of testicuIar cancer. And, as has been said before, unneutered indoor-onIy cats Iive Iives of quiet desperation. And, whiIe respecting (but disagreeing with) your partner's feeIings, perhaps your partner shouId be reminded that to Ieave the boys with intact, VERY active sex drives but no outIet for them is actuaIIy a harsher restriction than removing the desire.

 

[catloverfromwayback]

I would add, why is bodily autonomy more important for the males than the female, who's been spayed at some point? Why does not having a simple operation to remove all these drives and potentially dreadful results outweigh making their lives healthier and less frustrated? It's also anthropomorphising to talk about body autonomy for cats in this sort of instance: they don't know or care, and their health is more important.

Also, is the female spending so much time hiding on the fridge to avoid the males? Sounds likely to me.

 

[Alldara]

That's a serious amount of stress on your older female cat.

I think you need to consider the effects of stress and the potential illnesses that can arise on your older cat who should be enjoying her senior years and get those younger two neutered.

It's not normal or fine for her to hide all the time.

Neutering him is a good start to lowering his drive to chase her and pin her. Lowering their energy a bit might lower her down from the fridge.

 

[Feste]

I would add, why is bodily autonomy more important for the males than the female, who's been spayed at some point? Why does not having a simple operation to remove all these drives and potentially dreadful results outweigh making their lives healthier and less frustrated? It's also anthropomorphising to talk about body autonomy for cats in this sort of instance: they don't know or care, and their health is more important.

Also, is the female spending so much time hiding on the fridge to avoid the males? Sounds likely to me.

She was spayed when I adopted her. So the ethical dilemma never arose. It is important whether male or female. We never would have adopted the two males if she wasn't spayed, and obviously, vice versa.

 

[Feste]

That's a serious amount of stress on your older female cat.

I think you need to consider the effects of stress and the potential illnesses that can arise on your older cat who should be enjoying her senior years and get those younger two neutered.

It's not normal or fine for her to hide all the time.

Neutering him is a good start to lowering his drive to chase her and pin her. Lowering their energy a bit might lower her down from the fridge.

That is precisely why I posted the question. It is not fair (or normal) for her, and I don't want her suffering for it. She is perfectly fine with our youngest cat. When I confine Nemo (the problem child) to a room, she and the younger one run around and play. But that may be because he was a kitten when we introduced them and she still sees him that way. He is also more like her in personality. We adopted Nemo when he was almost two years old, as we thought she could benefit from some company. (She was raised around various dogs and cats, and then when we moved was alone). They got along for a time, not besties but certainly friendly. In the past year, Nemo has started chasing her and now it has gotten to the point where she hides on the fridge.

 

[Norachan]

They are indoors only, so there is no risk of unwanted pregnancies or serious cat fights.

Having two intact males in the house really is asking for trouble. They will start fighting with each other, they'll also spray to mark the territory. You can't have two intact males in the same space without them needing to prove dominance over each other.

You'll save yourself a fortune in vet's bills and cleaning products in the long run if you get them both fixed now.

Male cats recover very quickly from being neutered. They're usually home from the vet on the same day as having the procedure and barely seem to notice anything has been done.

I suggest you book them both in to be neutered as soon as you can.

 

[cmshap]

And my partner believes in bodily autonomy for all living creatures, so we have been debating the ethical dilemma.

I agree with what catloverfromwayback said about how this is anthropomorphizing the cat to think this way, and that the cat cannot perceive this concept of bodily autonomy in the slightest. The cat can live a perfectly healthy and happy life after being neutered, and more importantly, can still live life as a cat, doing all manner of natural cat things without the stresses of raging hormones.

A cat cannot perceive that we are helping them when we take them to a vet to treat any other medical problem. Say your cat injures his leg, and requires going to the vet for a procedure. You would load the cat into a carrier (possibly with difficulty, if the cat is in pain), take him to the vet, and the vet would give the cat anesthesia and perform a procedure... then you'd take your groggy, upset cat home and deal with pain management, possibly have to put a cone around his neck for a while, etc. Your cat would want NONE of that, and would rather stay at home and futilely attempt to nurse his own injury.

He will never know that going through the discomfort of this whole endeavor will only help him, and after recovery, he will feel much better and be much happier. So you would have to make the decision for him, and force him to go through with it whether he wants to or not.

Neutering is simply a procedure that will prevent so many problems, and make him healthier and happier in the long run. As everyone else has said.

Also consider how our perception of sex is vastly different from a cat's. I don't think many humans would willingly choose to be neutered to avoid hormonal stresses, because we enjoy sex and it's part of our pair-bonding process. Cats don't have that. Male cats have the unrelenting urge to just impregnate every female they can, and the mating process definitely does not seem enjoyable.

Cat sex is loud and painful for both parties -- the female has to endure the barbed penis, and the male often has to fight both other males and sometimes the very females he is mating with. Bodily autonomy has absolutely nothing to do with cat reproduction... they are simply driven by unrelenting urges they cannot control, unlike humans, who do have a much greater degree of control.

 

[Alldara]

That is precisely why I posted the question. It is not fair (or normal) for her, and I don't want her suffering for it. She is perfectly fine with our youngest cat. When I confine Nemo (the problem child) to a room, she and the younger one run around and play. But that may be because he was a kitten when we introduced them and she still sees him that way. He is also more like her in personality. We adopted Nemo when he was almost two years old, as we thought she could benefit from some company. (She was raised around various dogs and cats, and then when we moved was alone). They got along for a time, not besties but certainly friendly. In the past year, Nemo has started chasing her and now it has gotten to the point where she hides on the fridge.

So as the other male matured, he [the older male] became more aggressive to the female.

That's why I suggest that neutering one might not solve the problem.

Part of your older male cat's issues may be that your younger cat's hormones are impacting your older male's behaviour causing him to be more territorial and feel less secure and therefore he is more reactive.

Since he's been intact for so long, the younger male's hormones might continue to make him reactive to your female, even after his testosterone is gone from his system 6-8 weeks post neuter.

So I would say yes, neuter your older male. But keep in mind that the younger male male need to go if your home doesn't calm down in 6-8 weeks.

 

[Feste]

Thank you everyone for your advice! In the end, we decided to get Nemo neutered. Our vet offers a laser procedure, so he is scheduled for one this week.

 

[Norachan]

I think that's a great idea. Please keep us posted on how everything goes with your three.

 

[Alldara]

Thank you everyone for your advice! In the end, we decided to get Nemo neutered. Our vet offers a laser procedure, so he is scheduled for one this week.

for you all. I look forward to hearing how everything goes.