Dealing With Giardia, Please Help Me I Feel Hopeless

[aelu]

You guys are the best, thanks for all the support! By the way, I know that this thread is titled Giardia, but I want everyone to know, we defeated this nasty parasite and dealing with something else entirely. I tested their poop for giardia every.single.time I give them stool samples, and it has been negative the past 4 times.
We've just gotten so unlucky, and it seems that once the giardia problem went away, both our cats got clostridium perfringens/e coli from a bad batch of wet food.

So our cats still have clostridium perfringens and e.coli. The antibiogram showed that it was quite resistant to a lot of medicine, including amoxicillin, which is what they were treated with before. They were put on a 10-day course on a different antibiotic. We also switched vets to get another opinion, and I like him much better. Our new vet explained that the e.coli was a rarer strain, Enterohemorrhagic E. coli (EHEC) and its a bit tricker to control. He thinks if we can get rid of the e.coli, the clostridium will lower in numbers or be controlled better by the immune system.

They finished the 10-day course about 3 days ago, and so far, there has been no diarrhea. Our longest streak of no diarrhea was 3-weeks, so until we break that record, I'm not going to feel very positive. I have been giving them probiotics twice a day during their medication, and will continue doing this for a few months at least. The probiotic is Entero Chronic mixed with some S. Boullardi. We also switched them to a special hard food for sensitive stomachs. The downside to this is that our younger cat does not like it, but will eat when he is hungry, so we have to leave it out all day...and our older cat has gotten quite fat because of this. If anyone has any solutions to this, let me know For now, I think I will just keep this schedule until they are healthy and transition them back to a controlled diet of wet food later. We adopted our older cat and he was originally very fat, but he lost the weight really quickly when he started eating wet.

Aside from getting a bit fat, he seems to be perfectly fine now. His stools are perfect and he has completely stopped vomiting. His mood is good too. The younger one's only symptom was weight loss and bloody diarrhea, both have not appeared since their medication. Though, he hasnt gained much weight since we switched their foods, and that worries me a bit because hes still young (7 months and 6.4 lbs). Usually he gains about 20-50 grams a day, but he hasn't gained anything in the past week

We sent the stool sample 7 days in during the treatment, because our new vet wants to check and make sure the antibiotic he prescribed is actually lowering the numbers. Haven't heard back yet, but will make a call this afternoon.

 

[kashmir64]

That is great to hear. I'm hoping for the best outcome possible for these two.

I wouldn't worry too much about your kitten unless he starts to lose weight again. My (lion haha) kitten has stopped at this point, for a while. She just turned 6 months a week ago and has held at 8 lbs since then. I'm not concerned, she is healthy. So, If yours is at least holding, that is good.

 

[kinakat]

Keeping finger crossed for you that everything has passed and your cats will be doing super good from now on

 

[kashmir64]

How are they doing today? Any gains or losses in weight?

 

[aelu]

They are both doing great It's been one week with no antibiotics and everything is fine. We still give them probiotics every 12 hours. We slowly switched them to wet food as well and it did not affect their stools. Now the little one is eating more, and gaining steady weight, just as he should! If there are any changes I'll be sure to report back, but otherwise I will check back in one month and let everyone know their progress.

Again, thanks for all the support, this community is the best <3

 

[kashmir64]

I am so glad to hear this.

 

[kommunity kats]

When our dogs got Giardia (vet diagnosed), they would not swallow the pills for treatment no matter what I tried. I looked the med. name up online, & read that that it is often not effective for Giardia, and that it tastes absolutely horrible. . . . So, I looked up natural treatments only to discover that I already had 3 of them in my home: MSM; Coconut oil; Grape-Fruit Seed Extract. So, I mixed an appropriate dose of each in their food (probably only needed to use one of them), and added a third feeding daily (because they'd lost weight). By the end of the week their weight was normal again, and the diarrhea had stopped with the first natural treatments (though I continued giving all three natural treatments through the week, and then at least one of them with each meal thereafter. (I think they picked it up from out in the yard, so could easily get reinfected.)

 

[kashmir64]

The shelter gave me Panacur and Amoxicillin. That did the trick, but it was a 7 day treatment. It can live in the environment for a year, so keep vigilant.

 

[Taichibulldog]

to the OP,

the below has been what i have done to deal with various issues. always check with your vet, use your common sense and cross reference all info including any i might relay hear. google is a good way to do that and at the least it won't hurt. my primary experience is with dogs, but i have had cats since 93' approx. I have once now too I WILL BE POSTING MY OWN QUESTIONS about when i feel i need too.

when u have parasites and infection and the antibiotics and parasitic meds are either not working, overdone, or not effective. give them a break. use food grade DE in their food and colloidal silver to back up the standard antibiotics.

for small pets like cats I'd use 10 ppm strength sprayed in the mouth = two spritzes twice a day. if they won't allow that put it on anything they are willing to eat.
i only recommend the two brands i have used myself for me, my cats, and my dogs.
futurebiotics and source naturals. i get blue cobalt glass spray bottles from whole foods but any brown/blue dark glass bottles will work. don't throw away the dropper because u might need it. it tastes like water anyway so it should be well tolerated.

still use the probiotic because just like chemical antibiotics colloidal silver will kill any organic nasties or severely inhibit them. However, the live organisms can not be resistant to the CS like standard antibiotics often are. if they are eating again I'd wait to use the probiotics as not to give the cats body too much to deal with all at once. waiting 5-7 days won't hurt them.

i always suggest getting the 8oz bottle because it's more economical, search for best price online because many will charge you more for the exact same thing just because they can and humans are gullible. ijs

diarrhea basmati rice and ground beef. do not add any seasoning whatsoever. u can mash up the long grain basmati a bit too if u like. crackers can be substituted for rice if they will eat it but not saltines.

btw FOOD grade DE should be kept on hand anyway as well as the CS because it's better to have it at the ready. CS can also be used for ear/eye infections too

as a side note bone broth can be used for most cats/dogs that don't want to eat to at the least get some nutrients in them and ward off dehydration alike. use organic chicken to make it with. you can make this up ahead of time and freeze it for when u need it. again at the ready is better because it takes awhile to make bone broth.
i use dr. karen becker's bone broth video off youtube. yet, don't be fooled by her selling all sorts of supplements that she has created or her company sells.

lastly many of the special cat diets vets prescribe are BS in particular science diet. you can google how to make your ow that is both safe and effective at a fraction of the cost. just don't buy crap ingredients and your good to go.

i followed all this with great interest and glad they are doing better. i first used CS
on myself because i had a weird growth under my chin towards my throat over 10 yrs ago. shortly after using it it started to shrink and in like 2 weeks it was gone never to return. i used the futurebiotics one but switched to source naturals because it's cheaper and found it to be just as effective. they have a stonger dose of 30 ppm and yet don't up charge u for it i have no idea why. I only use that for chronic cases of X,Y,Z, and stop after 2 weeks. i hope all of the get better.

btw CS will not interfere with other drugs just give at a different time of the day is all. be it for animals, kids, or adults.

to all concerned i can't type well at all so you will often see caps in my posts for that sole reason and none other. ijs

 

[Kirstin@AllBeings]

Hi! This is my first time posting in a Cat Site forum so hopefully this comes through okay and I follow proper protocol.

I wanted to reiterate what you said, Taichibulldog, since you took the words right out of my mouth. True (not ionic) colloidal silver (10ppm and with a small particle size like this example) would be a fantastic supplement addition to helping any cats or kittens battling internal or external parasites, bacterial infections, and general immune system deficiencies. (Same for people actually.) It's been proven in studies to eradicate over 650 different pathogens, including Giardia, and as you mentioned, the best advantage over antibiotics (beyond no side effects) is that it never becomes resistant to the pathogen. In effect, it suffocates the pathogen so it dies off and is unable to replicate but in the most natural way possible while also providing additional health benefits like immune system boosting. It also works fast from skin infections to internal ones.

Then relating to diarrhea and really any digestive issues that persist, it's really important to also always look at the pet food, especially in today's world of poor quality nutrients and chemical additives (including in the food from your vet). My cat, Freddie, is almost 22 years old and we have tested everything imaginable over the years (including being on raw food for the past 14 years). Bottom line is your safest options for normalizing a pet's digestive system and providing the optimal environment for your cat to thrive and reach its full potential is frozen raw or freeze-dried raw (e.g. Stella & Chewy's) selections. I know there's always a debate on this but think of it in this logical way... raw, unprocessed food is how your cat gets the enzymes it needs from its food. Enzymes are the cornerstones of life but when pet food is heated like it is during traditional processing for both wet and dry foods, those enzymes are destroyed and your cat receives an inferior meal lacking the nutrients he/she craves and needs. Combine that with all of the preservatives, colouring, flavour enhancers, etc. in today's pet food and you have a recipe for disaster when it comes to your cat's digestive system and overall health. And if that isn't enough, here are a few interesting extra benefits of raw and freeze-dried raw food:

1) Your cat's stool will automatically harden up and have zero smell... the way it should be. Urine will be odourless as well like it should be since pH levels will normalize, there will be less chance of bladder infections, etc. This means there is no need for scented litter.

2) Your cat will pass stool only every 2-3 days since with raw food, there is less waste. Their body actually uses more of the nutrients in the food leaving less to get rid of once fully digested.

3) Lastly, they will actually seem to eat less but that's because they aren't living on carbohydate-filled food that makes them continuously hungry (and leads to Diabetes). Instead, they will get the quality protein and fats they need to fill up and stay full, just like us when we eat a proper diet with balanced protein, fats, and carbs. This also makes raw food more affordable than you think.

So I don't mean to sound preachy to anybody but based on my 22 years testing with Freddie and the fact I'm a Certified Nutritional Therapist helping both pets and people, I'm hoping this will be helpful to some of you out there. Natural remedies that have worked for thousands of years and the right food prepared the right way are powerful... often more so than prescription medication with all its side effects. They at least make amazing complimentary options.

And speak of the devil, Freddie just showed up for her raw venison... or is it camel, kangaroo, turkey, or elk tonight? That and then her regular syringe of true colloidal silver. I better take mine too!

 

[aelu]

I have been using collodial silver in their water only (because giardia lives in water, I try to make sure it cannot live in their water source). I change their water every morning and afternoon, and each change I add two spritz of CS. I've been doing this for the past month or so, so it may have helped.

As far as raw food goes:
Germany unfortunately doesn't have many options. The only options I found are frozen, and have to be defrosted. I tried to feed them this, but they did not like it at all. I tried Stella and Chewy's and they both loved it; but I had to ship internationally and it was insanely expensive, and took a month to get delivered. Unfortunately there are no cheap options for this and there are no freeze-dried German brands. I wish I had more options!
I know Primal Freeze dried is great as well, because I used to feed this to my other cat when I was working in the USA.

So far our cats are doing great. Their stools are perfect. I think it is the 2x daily probiotic treatment they are getting. I probably will do this for the rest of their lives. The only problem we are having is our younger kitty does not like the sensitive food he is getting. He rarely eats, and has not been able to gain steady weight in the past 3 weeks. For this reason, I am considering switching his foods to something tastier, but its always a huge risk to do this because every food change gives him diarrhea (even if we do it slowly).

 

[Kirstin@AllBeings]

So glad you have been using the colloidal silver (hopefully in true form vs. ionic for maximum effect)! I love when I come across a pet parent like you since you obviously care so much and try everything possible for your wonderful cats.

As for the raw food switch, it isn't easy when a cat or kitten has been used to other types of food but they will eventually switch. It just takes some time and a particular approach with the tricky kitties. Here is a page with some helpful guidance on switching pets over to raw from a very reputable raw food manufacturer out of Vancouver, B.C. where I'm originally from. Sometimes it also helps adding a bit of warm water to it to make it kind of soup-like for them. Whatever and however long it takes, it is worth the switch since health problems practically disappear before your eyes and the entire body normalizes to what it should be from their eyes and coat to their weight, muscle mass, and organ unction.

The next best option beyond the frozen or freeze-dried raw then is a newer canned option I've come across called RAWZ. This is probably the best chance in non-true raw food of not having any side effects due to its healthier ingredients and very minimal processing. Just not sure if you can get it in Germany or not.

Whenever diarrhea (or constipation) does happen, my proven go-to natural remedy over the years is slippery elm bark powder. Have you ever tried that even on a regular basis to coat internal linings (e.g. digestive tract, bladder), reduce any inflammation, and provide needed nutrients (especially for your kitten)? I don't think I saw that covered in this thread but I may have missed it. Here is a fantastic page explaining its powerful effects and dosing.

And yes, probiotics always help too to re-balance the intestinal bacteria although I have used some brands in the past that disturbed Freddie's system. Just like human probiotics, they can be of poor quality, aren't refrigerated as they normally should be, or contain a disruptive added ingredient so for anybody looking for a good summary and some quality recommendations, here's a page I just found with more info.

Okay, that's it from me for now. This forum stuff is addicting but like I say at my practice, it's all about "well-being for all beings!" I just want everybody and every being to be well.

 

[Anne]

I'd like to remind everyone that we do not allow providing medical advice on the forums. That includes alternative treatments and change of diet offered as therapy.
About Providing Medical Advice on this Board

If your cat is ill, see the vet. Just like the OP did. If you're unhappy with your vet, seek a second opinion from another qualified vet. Do not attempt to cure anything using a non-sanctioned treatment. You could be hurting your cat, or just prolonging the suffering until you finally get treatment.

Alternative treatments are often more accessible than real veterinary care but they are not risk free -
Alternative Treatments For Cats: How To Minimize The Risk

And again, avoid providing any medical advice. We will not tolerate that here. If you see a post where medical advice is provided, please flag it so the moderators can handle the issue. Thank you.

 

[Taichibulldog]

I THOUGHT BASED on your TOU that i was clear since i included the see ur vet yada yada. btw one reason i came is is because i saw what folks were saying to try to help each others cats. i'll eat a whole tray of frog legs if most of that didn't sound like medical advice. rolf. but seriously the liable fear can easily be avoided with a simple disclaimer that is agreed to prior to joining this site. u know all members void all right of suit .... and vlutarily do so as a member of this site. what you ultimately do is up to you ... ok. thx.

 

[monkeymind]

You mean you got giardia from your cats? Thats awful. How did you know?

Same symptoms of cat w both myself & husband. Bc of our immune system problems doc treated immediately instead of waiting on fecal test.

 

[aelu]

Hey guys, another update.
We officially had 4 weeks of perfect poop! Seriously perfect, did not even smell. We thought we would try transitioning them to a non-prescription food that is a bit cheaper, so we slowly introduced them over the course of a week. Their poops were also fine during this period. But, about two days in, the little one got a small bit of diarrhea (it was followed by firm poop). I freaked out, switched their foods back, and gave an extra dose of probiotics. Its day 3 since the diarrhea, and his poop is OK now, just a little soft at the end and quite smellier. I read that Clostridium never really goes away, and there are some flareups that return monthly..so that may be this too. Only time will tell. The good news is, the poop firmed up this time without any antibiotics.

So, it looks like they will have to have prescription food for the rest of their lives. I'm OK with this as long as their poops are healthy. We are going on vacation for two weeks soon, and I really hope our catsitter doesn't have to deal with diarrhea at all. But I'm also nervous that our sitter will not follow through with their medicine. They both need to be administered a specific dose of probiotics twice daily to keep the diarrhea away

 

[Allyrobs]

What prescription food are you using?