Dealing With Giardia, Please Help Me I Feel Hopeless

[aelu]

I can't help but feel there is an underlying problem here. Giardia usually only shows in kittens or the elderly. Unless, your cat has an immune compromised system. If your cat has a strong immune system, neither Giardia nor Coccidia shows sympoms.

I would have him checked for this.

The one with giardia is a kitten, he was extremely malnourished and underweight when we got him. He was also hand-reared by someone who worked full-time, so he didnt get mother's nutrients and the right amount of food. He's doing ok now, though! Symptoms are not nearly as bad.

Our older kitten is only 4 years old, but we assume he had symptoms for a few days (diarrhea) because he was really stressed out from the kitten's arrival as well.

 

[aelu]

Hello everyone, would like to update you on our progress.

Unfortunately we are still dealing with diarrhea, but it does not seem to be caused by the Giardia anymore. Both our cats were clear of giardia twice. Their stools are currently runny and brown. When they had giardia, it was runny, yellow and extremely smelly.
They are both still having chronic diarrhea issues. Our older cat (who never had any digestive problems until our kitten came along) has better stools when he is put on a chicken and rice diet, so we will continue to give him this. Our younger kitten absolutely refuses to eat chicken and rice, so we are considering to try raw food. I'm beginning to suspect the problem is still some kind of parasite because they are both sharing the same symptoms.

1. They have both been on several different types of antibiotics (Panacur for giardia, Metrodazinole for giardia, Baytril for e-coli, Ronidazole for giardia and t-foetus), and all of them helped firm their stools within a day. However, whenever the medication period ends, their diarrhea returns within two days. Ronidazole was working the best, after two days of treatment their stools were firm for 3 weeks and we thought we had defeated their diarrhea for good! But it came back, and a second treatment of Ronidazole did not give us the same results...
2. Younger kitten always has a drop of fresh blood in his diarrhea.
3. Aside from the constant litterbox visits, both cats are active, running around and appear content. They do not have running fevers.
4. Our biggest concern is the little one, that has trouble gaining weight while he has bouts of diarrhea.
5. We have tried: probiotics, pre-biotics, s-boullardi, slippery elm, forti-flora. None of these have improved their diarrhea. S-boullardi worked a little bit, but that eventually stopped working too.
6. We have tried all types of food except raw (its hard to get raw in Germany but I found one place): grain-free wet, sensitive varieties, grain-free sensitive hardfood (duck, venison, turkey, chicken, beef, horse, ostrich-- you name it.)

I've done a lot of "online research" and I have a personal suspicion that our cats have a clostridium perfringens infection... We have done our 5th stool sample (sent to the lab) and are still waiting for results. Fingers crossed!

 

[kashmir64]

Could they have Coccidia now? I read somewhere that the two sometimes come together. I don't know how true that is though. The shelter treated my kittens for both, not knowing for sure which one it was.
It's just a thought. Maybe Albon would help.

 

[aelu]

Test results just came through today:

They are both clear of giardia and coccidia (this is their second negative and both of their stools were tested each time), which is great news!

They also found large traces of e.coli in the little one, which means he needs to be put on a longer course of antibiotics. Yesterday, since we have been waiting for the results (it took nearly 6 days for the results to come in) we switched both cats to a completely different brand of food that consists of pure-chicken (Almo Natur). I also started to sprinkle Entero-Chronic in their food.
I'm not sure what made the difference, but they both have not pooped yet (and I'm at work) but I expect something when I get home. I'm feeling pretty hopeful because usually if they can keep their bowels inside of them for 10+ hours, the poop is healthy by the time it comes out.
Will update in a few hours

I am beyond happy we were able to defeat the giardia. If anyone is going through this, please get in touch and I can assist you!

 

[kashmir64]

I am so glad to hear this. I was lucky with mine and it was contained (they were in a small area). I was also lucky that neither the dogs nor myself got it.
I am sorry to hear that it is e.coli, but, at least the giardia is gone.

 

[aelu]

I am so glad to hear this. I was lucky with mine and it was contained (they were in a small area). I was also lucky that neither the dogs nor myself got it.
I am sorry to hear that it is e.coli, but, at least the giardia is gone.

Thank you! I have heard of cases that people can get infected from their animals, but I also read that each species cannot be affected by the same strain of giardia---but good to know you did not have to suffer either

 

[kashmir64]

Thank you! I have heard of cases that people can get infected from their animals, but I also read that each species cannot be affected by the same strain of giardia---but good to know you did not have to suffer either

Actually, Coccidia is species specific. Giardia doesn't discriminate.

 

[aelu]

So here are the lab results:
Turns out the diarrhea was caused by a little bit of e.coli and a high amount of clostridium perfringens (my previous post wasn't very accurate because it was just a phonecall).
They did a very detailed test and made sure to give us the right antibiotics, because our little kitten was unfortunately resistant to a lot of antibiotics. We will treat him for 10 days with amoxicillin. Our older cat is completely fine (his poop didn't show anything abnormal) even though he had diarrhea. He is OK now, and is giving us perfect poop.

We (our vet and I) have two suspicions:
1. Clostridium perfringens and e.coli can both emerge as a secondary infection when too many antibiotics are administered. Because we kept getting giardia re-infections, our cats were constantly medicated over the course of 2 months. When an antibiotic is administered it wipes out both the good and bad bacteria, and if some bad bacteria is left behind (like e.coli and clostridium; a bacteria that is naturally in all our guts), there is a chance it can overpopulate and cause issues.

2. We were putting our cats on a high-quality special type of food (gastro-intestinal), but theres a possibility that some of the food I gave the cats were spoiled. I had ordered quite a lot so it came as a bulk order, and I may have been given a bad shipment... the reason I say this is because our vet gave us a few trial cans and then told me where to order them in bulk. Once my order came in, I opened a can and noticed that the food looked different from the cans my vet gave me, even though it was the same brand and flavor. I also noticed that is was very watery compared to the trial cans. However, it did not smell bad and because it was prescription food, I kept feeding it to them. Needless to say, I will not be feeding my cats that brand anymore!

 

[monkeymind]

So here are the lab results:
Turns out the diarrhea was caused by a little bit of e.coli and a high amount of clostridium perfringens (my previous post wasn't very accurate because it was just a phonecall).
They did a very detailed test and made sure to give us the right antibiotics, because our little kitten was unfortunately resistant to a lot of antibiotics. We will treat him for 10 days with amoxicillin. Our older cat is completely fine (his poop didn't show anything abnormal) even though he had diarrhea. He is OK now, and is giving us perfect poop.

We (our vet and I) have two suspicions:
1. Clostridium perfringens and e.coli can both emerge as a secondary infection when too many antibiotics are administered. Because we kept getting giardia re-infections, our cats were constantly medicated over the course of 2 months. When an antibiotic is administered it wipes out both the good and bad bacteria, and if some bad bacteria is left behind (like e.coli and clostridium; a bacteria that is naturally in all our guts), there is a chance it can overpopulate and cause issues.

2. We were putting our cats on a high-quality special type of food (gastro-intestinal), but theres a possibility that some of the food I gave the cats were spoiled. I had ordered quite a lot so it came as a bulk order, and I may have been given a bad shipment... the reason I say this is because our vet gave us a few trial cans and then told me where to order them in bulk. Once my order came in, I opened a can and noticed that the food looked different from the cans my vet gave me, even though it was the same brand and flavor. I also noticed that is was very watery compared to the trial cans. However, it did not smell bad and because it was prescription food, I kept feeding it to them. Needless to say, I will not be feeding my cats that brand anymore!

Congratulations. Seems you are finally getting to the end of this. I've been trying to figure out the best food for our boys. Netflix has a documentary called PetFooled. It gave me insight into lack of regulations but still haven't figured out what to give them. Might post about this @some point. Took a lot of notes. Partially bc of our giardia cat's sensitive tummy.

 

[monkeymind]

I can't help but feel there is an underlying problem here. Giardia usually only shows in kittens or the elderly. Unless, your cat has an immune compromised system. If your cat has a strong immune system, neither Giardia nor Coccidia shows sympoms.

I would have him checked for this.

Our cat that got giardia is 2 years old. He has a history of pica like behavior (we do everything we can to make sure he doesnt get things) & diarrhea. When he was younger he had horrible flatuleance, it disappeared for a while & reappeared when we found out he had giardia. His stool test was clear and his flatuence is way less but still horrible smells. Since you mentioned adult cats shouldnt have giardia unless immunocompromised. I've been concerned about his tummy & probiotics & what are the best things for him. Is there specific tests you suggest to find out if he has an immune disease or GI?

Ironically, we are both immunocomprimised so we got giardia but our other 2 cats didnt.

 

[kashmir64]

ELISA is the test you want. However, I just recently read that there is a snap test for it.
I didn't read the article, just the headline.

Ignore this post, it is for the giardia test.

 

[kashmir64]

Read this article, it may help. I'm not up-to-date on tests for immune system. Sorry
Weak Immune System in Cats - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost

 

[aelu]

Sad news today...
After 3 weeks of perfect poop (and while on no treatment) our little one had bloody diarrhea again. His food did not change, but I did notice his appetite sort of diminished the past 2 days...I did not think it would lead to the return of his diarrhea.

When I saw the bloody diarrhea I quickly cleaned him up (a big glob was stuck to his butt) and just held him and started crying. I thought we had defeated this for good and now its back..
We sent his stool samples and waiting for results again. Our older one also had diarrhea a week ago, but that cleared up after a course of antibiotics...though his treatment just ended so its possible it will come back for him too.

The fact that they both have the same symptoms just makes me feel it is a parasite we are dealing with. They were negative for giardia and coccidia, but I asked to test for that again.
I also told them to test for t. foetus. I would hate to deal with a parasite, but a small part of me doesn't think its giardia again, mainly because the smell of giardia was burned into my nose and their recents bouts of diarrhea did not smell anything like that.

Maybe that the e.coli and clostridium toxins didn't completely clear up and came back...I dont know... My vet only put them on a 10 day treatment of amoxicillan, but Ive read that the minimum is 14 days. Has anyone experienced this? Right now they are both on Baytril for 5 more days until we get some results. It just seems weird that both of my cats are exhibiting the same symptoms. Especially considering our older cat has been completely healthy up until we got the kitten 4 months ago (he NEVER had a bad poop).

Sigh...just wanted to update you lovely people.

 

[aelu]

Our cat that got giardia is 2 years old. He has a history of pica like behavior (we do everything we can to make sure he doesnt get things) & diarrhea. When he was younger he had horrible flatuleance, it disappeared for a while & reappeared when we found out he had giardia. His stool test was clear and his flatuence is way less but still horrible smells. Since you mentioned adult cats shouldnt have giardia unless immunocompromised. I've been concerned about his tummy & probiotics & what are the best things for him. Is there specific tests you suggest to find out if he has an immune disease or GI?

Ironically, we are both immunocomprimised so we got giardia but our other 2 cats didnt.

You mean you got giardia from your cats? Thats awful. How did you know?

 

[kashmir64]

Thanks for the update. I don't know enough about e-coli or the other thing to have anything intelligent to say about it.
Keep us posted, and let us know what the vet says.

 

[aelu]

Hey guys we got the stool results again:
The clostridium perfringen enterotoxin and e. coli and still present. It must have repopulated in our baby's gut, which is what caused the bloody diarrhea to return. It's very likely our other cat has an overpopulation of this as well, because he had diarrhea too.

Our older cat's diarrhea resolved after we switched him to grain-free hard food that is 90% chicken. We will also gave him entero-chronic (a probiotic) in his meals, and S. Boullardi (a yeast) twice a day. Anyway, he gave us a perfect poop this morning!

Our younger cat will go through antibiotic treatment, and also get the same probiotics. Unfortunately he is very picky and does not eat the hard food that fixed our older cat's problems. It seems we will have to repair their gut over time, and hope that their natural flora can maintain the clostridium overgrowth. That seems to be the only way, especially considering I do not want to keep giving our cats medication (they have had about 9 treatments since the giardia diagnosis 5 months ago).

 

[kashmir64]

You've just had a bad time, haven't you? Here's hoping that the probiotics work on their guts and they can all get better soon.

 

[weemomma]

I don't have experience with Giardia, but my little girl got histoplasmosis about three years ago. It was such a helpless feeling because it felt like it would never get better. I remember feeling helpless when she just stood in the litter box for hours on end, crying because her bottom hurt but she couldn't quit pooping. It was an endless cycle of meds, litter cleaning, more meds, and medical tests. It felt like it would never get better. It took us over a year of this routine before we got an all clear.

However, we were both in it together. She had my back and I had hers. It has made our bond so much stronger. It seems hopeless and it's alright to cry in frustration, but keep on the course and please never be afraid to ask questions. You are your cat's biggest advocate. If you don't feel like your vet is truly understanding you, definitely go for another opinion.

 

[jcat]

The Entero-Chronic should be effective with wet food. It's one of those things that takes a bit of time to work (our IBD cat has gotten it, as well as shelter cats with giardia, E coli, coccidia, etc ).

 

[kinakat]

Hi, I am new. So sorry to hear your cats have not yet got rid of all the problems. I can only imagine how you'r feeling,
I basically added myself to this group because my indoor cats had it twice already, and it was a nightmare for me the last time it happened, this last July. I started reacting to the original post, but now I see all the updates and I am going to pray hard for your baby to get normal in health again. Good luck, lots of wishes coming your way!!

Old reply for Giardia
Regarding giardia, for my Ozio this time Panacur didn't help, as it did one time before. So we had to do a double cure of Metronidazole, together with some anti-nausea medications. My cat was out of himself, we had to give him twice intra-vein fluid because he was not drinking nor eating. I was so sorry, we try our best so they are healthy so I understand your pain. I also went anal on cleaning the house, but since this last time, no one is allowed with shoes inside my house as I think it can be brought in from walking on dirty pavements. Another mistake I made was buying him a "piece of grass in a box" that he had on the balcony, I read Giardia can make eggs in soil. We are since end July Giardia-free but my baby (he is 9 but forever baby) has trouble eating specific things. We checked him and he's giardia-free but this time both the parasite and the meds were too hard on his digestion system. I decided to get him a extra vitamine paste for increasing his immune system and something to ease up the digestive tract. Now he eats a bit happier but is still fussy. I have adapted the food, so he eats and drinks.