Crate size

[gleason]

I'm going to try to trap a feral kitten that is about 12-13 weeks old. I've been able to get close to it's brother but can't get near this one. After I trap it I want to bring it into the garage where it's going to be warmer. I'm also bringing in the one that I can pick up. We live in Wisconsin and it is getting cold.
I don't want to just release the skittish one in the garage. I would like to keep it in a crate for awhile. What size crate should I get? Is this a good idea? Should I keep both kittens in the crate? How long should I keep them in? There are other cats in the garage that will be around these kittens.

 

[kittychick]

I'm so glad to hear this little one (and hopefully two) will hopefully be not only snipped - so fewer kittens in the world to worry about trapping and crates and winters and on and on and on - but that they've obviously come into the life of someone who cares a lot about the cats in their area. Because you're right - northern Ohio winters are COLD but they generally don't hold a candle (or thermometer) to Wisconsin!!!!! So glad to hear these guys will be hopefully taken care of soon.

Know that probably almost as many of us that do TNR on a regular basis have just about the same number of slightly different ways we handle it. And without seeing your exact situation, knowing the kitties (both these two and the others you mentioned), etc., definitely take in all the info you get (from this great site - which you obviously already know about this wonderful community of cat lovers and caretakers - and from any references/links you might get) and use what works for you. And NEVER be afraid to ask too many questions, and NO question is "dopey"! We've all stumbled our way through this when we began - whether last month, or last decade .

So - that said - it's late and I know I should be working vs typing - but this feels more important (it's only a job right?), but wanted you to get at least a few questions answered since you're likely anxious. Winter is definitely coming fast!

First - check with the organization that will be doing the surgery/surgeries. In the winter, many cut off services or greatly reduce appointments during the winter - generally based on temperature. Even though feral kitties (and these guys I'd still call kittens, so they're even more fragile) are tough little guys, they need to be able to spend their recovery time in a warmer area for safety's sake - and in the cold months it's usually recommended (and in my opinion - a must) that they be held longer before releasing when it's cold bc - well, they've just had surgery! So before you do anything, talk to whomever will be doing their surgeries and what their winter protocols are.

You mention other cats in the garage -- are they completely feral, or have they been partially/totally socialized? Can they come and go from the garage, or are they in there 24/7? And are these 2 kittens part of your "garage colony" (for lack of a better name ) - - or do they at least associate them? Do they all eat together etc.? Obviously if the two newly neutered boys DO know your garage group, that will help enormously. Otherwise, we might need to brainstorm a way to keep the garage gang from having any access (even through a cage/crate wire side/top) to the two kittens, as that would likely be very stressful for the kittens. They've feel vulnerable anyway post-surgery, so anything we can do to alleviate stress will help them heal faster.

I'd absolutely do my best to do both at the same time (often they'll provide comfort to each other while waiting to be released) but if you can't, that's fine. And you don't need to be able to touch them to be able to trap them (I couldn't begin to touch a large portion I've trapped!). We bait our traps with canned mackerel - which smells to high heaven and usually pulls even the most skittish into the trap And since they are still fairly young and quite possibly socializable and even place them in a new forever home, let us all know here - many of us can offer advice on socializing. But I know that's not always possible - so I'm just thrilled you're getting these little ones fixed!!!!!!!!

So - along that line - I absolutely would NOT immediately just release the two newly fixed kittens into the garage. First of all, if there is "come and go kitty access" they'll "go" immediately. Like two furry rockets. Every cat I've ever released post-TNR (kittens we usually socialize if at all possible and try to find homes - - -but know that's easier said than done for everyone!) heads for the hills for a bit, even if they've spent a large amount of time making our yard/garage their "home base." So we keep them in our garage - or basement if it's extremely cold or extremely hot - for a few days depending on situation - male vs female, etc (males technically need less "in your care" recovery time). We usually do try to hold them longer then the minimum recommended time (unless holding them is proving worse for the cat then releasing it - - -which has happened - not often, but it has happened).

What we do (altho as I said earlier, many people don't even want to try transferring) - and what I recommend IF you're VERY cautious (and try to read up on this kind of technique) - is transfer VERY CAREFULLY the trapped kitties from the trap into a large wire dog crate for the remainder of their post-surgery "incarceration." We have everything prepared ahead so that it's a foolproof as possible. We usually use a very large crate (it's technically a Great Dane crate - ours looks a lot like this one from Amazon: Amazon X-Large Wire Dog Crate - it isn't cheap, but we've had it for years - ask around, as often times a good friend with a dog will loan you theirs for a bit, and sometimes the shelter/spay neuter group will have crates - and traps - that you can take home after making a deposit). Into that we put a small litterbox, food/water bowls (we use the shallow plastic two-side type of dish - much harder to tip over. We line the bottom with newspaper, and we put in a cat carrier that we wire open with some fleece fabric inside. Not terrycloth as towels are, as outdoor cats usually have very long nails that get caught easily in the towel fabric loops - causing them to panic. The carrier gives them a place to "hide." We then cover the entire crate with a thin sheet - it helps calm them quite a bit.

If you do decide to try doing it this way - I can give even more specifics as we've even got it worked out about how we get them into the carrier to clean the crate, etc. - but that'll make this post even longer! (altho sure you're already saying "that simply can't be!").

You may already know some of this info. I wasn't sure how much - if any - actual TNR you'd done. And even if you have - these Cat Site articles are great ways to "brush up" on ferals & TNR (esp in the winter).

Helping Feral Cats Stay Safe & Warm During Winter
Everything You Need to Know about TNR

Another organization - while not a great forum of "give and take" conversations like Cat Site, which is always invaluable to me - with a ton of easily-located, well-organized info on TNR is a group called Alley Cat Allies. Their general focus/mission is TNR - they basically pioneered (or certainly lead the effort to make the public aware) the practice of TNR, so their site has lots of articles to pour through. A few that might really help that I like are below - and many have links within the articles re: specific points:

Alley Cat Allies TNR intro
Step-By-Step TNR guide
Post TNR Surgery Care

Sorry SO long (I haven't done THIS long a one in ages - - sorry about that - you probably fell asleep 20 paragraphs ago! )

Keep us posted - and don't be afraid to ask questions!!!!!!!

 

[gleason]

Wow that was a long email with great info.
These 2 kittens are motherless for about the last 5 weeks. She was a semi-feral but got pregnant before I could get her in for TNR. Our local low cost clinic was closed for awhile due to Covid but opened up recently. They are only here once a month and take a limit of 40 animals (cats and dogs) so it's really hard to get an appt. I'm working on that and hope to get these 2 in as soon as I can. As for the other ones the females are fixed at this time. There is one male but I haven't got him fixed yet. Want to get the females first. I'm on a fixed income so I can only do just so much.
The cats can come and go from the garage. There is a pet door for them. There are 4 of them and 3 are semi-feral. I can get close to them and even pick up and "love up" 2 of them. One just hides and peeks out as I put out food and fresh water and waits till I'm walking away before coming out to eat.
The 2 that I can get close to will follow me out to where these 2 kittens are and they have been nose to nose with Scrappy. A little hissing goes on but no fighting. I think Scrappy will adjust to the other cats. I'm just concerned about the other one. I can pick up Scrappy so I'll have no problem carrying him to the garage.
When I get the other one trapped, should I put him/her in a large crate by himself while he adjusts to the garage or should I put both kittens in together? How long should I keep the kitten in the crate?

 

[gleason]

Update on the kitties. Shouldn't need to trap. Scrappy was up by the house the other day. AT first I was concerned about the other one but I saw him/her scoot in the storage barn. So I went out and got the food and water dishes and put them in the barn. Yesterday morning I saw both of them playing by the barn. Scrappy has been happily running around the yard with the other cats. I showed him the pet door and this morning when I went out to feed everyone he came charging thru the pet door. So he's got that figured out. I picked him up yesterday and walked by my husband and he let my husband pet me without trying to get away. Yesterday when I went to put food out in the barn the other kitten came over to eat. He/she was quite hungry and I was able to gently pet him. Looks like it will take some time but at least he's closer to the house and hopefully will be able to come in the garage with the others when it gets real cold and snowy. I'm happy!

 

[gleason]

And now more progress. The other kitten has figured out the pet door. I saw him/her running around the garage. He/she has plenty of places to hide. I seen today that he/she was in a hiding spot that has an old pillow in it and a sheet over the top with a small area to peek out. It won't come out when I first go out with food but hopefully over time he will get over that when he sees everyone else eating.