I feed far and away mostly whole raw rats, which I raise myself on a mostly natural diet with a few supplements and some dog kibble thrown in when I'm feeling lazy or going on vacation. I also raise mice, tho Charlie gets quite a few fewer of these, as I really detest the things and only can stomach raising them on a small scale. She lately has also been getting leftover KMR mixed with a few other things that I am using to bottle rear some mother rejected rabbits. I also give her raw meat(with and without bone) and, admittedly not often enough, raw organs. When I am feeling lazy I will give her canned grain-free 4Health(Tractor Supply store brand) cat food. There is an asian market near me and I can get quite a few odd bits of meats(organs, etc). I used to raise quail, and I breed a lot of animals so she gets any FTT babies or anyone I put down humanely for the express purpose to feed to the cat. How does this sound? I want to get more variety of whole prey into her, and I really need to pay attention to balancing the ratios for when I don't feed whole prey. Input would be appreciated.
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Could Use Helpful Criticism On My Menu
- Thread starter Bug 'n Co
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Well, to begin with, I wouldn't be exactly feeding him raw food. He is a house cat (even if you let him outside), and yes they are meant to hunt but the wet food is a good thing for them. I also wouldn't feed him dog food. Instead maybe find dry cat food. I feed my cat dry food Monday through Friday and feed her wet food Saturday and Sunday. If your cat is healthy on this diet and seems to enjoy it then I would continue but be careful with what you are feeding him. Also, those animals that you put down just to feed the cat, what animals are they? Do you let your cat go outside and hunt by himself or is he just an indoor? If he is an indoor cat I do think a tamer diet would be a good idea.
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In general, I think you're feeding her a great diet! Cats evolved to eat rodents and birds, so the rats, mice, and quail are great. Especially considering that you're raising them yourself, so minimal risk of diseases/parasites. The general rule is to feed no more than 10% of unbalanced food. So that would be pretty much everything else you mentioned except for the 4Health.
I would avoid feeding the dog kibble - it doesn't have enough taurine, which is critical for a cat. If you have to feed kibble while you're on vacation, at least buy some cat kibble. If it's on the rare occasion, I would even suggest doing freeze dried raw, since you can leave it out without safety issues; the only problem is that it tends to be expensive.
When you feed raw meat, I would make sure that it's properly balanced - 10% bone, 10% organ, and 80% muscle meat. You don't necessarily have to make a mix containing all of these ingredients. Instead, you could balance these out over a week. For example, feeding some chicken legs some days for bone and muscle meat. Then doing some meals of organs (note: to count as organs, they have to be secreting organs - liver, kidney, pancreas, brain. Heart, gizzard, and tripe count as muscle meat). Just weigh everything out and make sure that the ratios end up correct by the end of the week. There's a website you can use to estimate what percentage of a chicken, for example, is bone, but I can't remember off the top of my head.
orange&white
, do you remember?
Also, what are you mixing the KMR with?
I would avoid feeding the dog kibble - it doesn't have enough taurine, which is critical for a cat. If you have to feed kibble while you're on vacation, at least buy some cat kibble. If it's on the rare occasion, I would even suggest doing freeze dried raw, since you can leave it out without safety issues; the only problem is that it tends to be expensive.
When you feed raw meat, I would make sure that it's properly balanced - 10% bone, 10% organ, and 80% muscle meat. You don't necessarily have to make a mix containing all of these ingredients. Instead, you could balance these out over a week. For example, feeding some chicken legs some days for bone and muscle meat. Then doing some meals of organs (note: to count as organs, they have to be secreting organs - liver, kidney, pancreas, brain. Heart, gizzard, and tripe count as muscle meat). Just weigh everything out and make sure that the ratios end up correct by the end of the week. There's a website you can use to estimate what percentage of a chicken, for example, is bone, but I can't remember off the top of my head.
orange&white
, do you remember?Also, what are you mixing the KMR with?
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I think the op meant they fed the rats/mice they raised dog kibble sometimes, not the cat.
Sounds like quite a variety on the diet for Charlie as well. Doesn't seem bad when you think about it really, with cats meant to eat small prey animals.
Sounds like quite a variety on the diet for Charlie as well. Doesn't seem bad when you think about it really, with cats meant to eat small prey animals.
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Ohh, oops - yes I think that's what the OP meant. Ignore everything I said about the kibble then.
There is a long-standing debate among raw feeders between the whole prey group and the Frankenprey group. Frankenprey folks (like myself) insist on an 80/10/5/5 (boneless meat/bone/liver/"other" secreting organ). I don't think there is any evidence that one way is the right way or wrong way, but if you were feeding whole prey chicken, rabbit, duck...well anything other than rodents...then I would worry you were feeding too much bone. Rodents, especially mice, are going to be 80/10/10 naturally. The anatomy ratios of a mouse are where the 80/10/5/5 originated.
If you're wanting to add more standard poultry, beef, pork, or other larger farmed animals, maybe you'd consider making a batch of balanced "Frankenprey" food and keep a few tubs in the freezer to rotate. This recipe has been around a long time and is trusted: Recipe: Feline Nutrition's Easy Raw Cat Food - Feline Nutrition Foundation
I rotate beef, pork, chicken for boneless meats, so you don't always have to stick to a recipe that specifically calls for chicken thighs. It's just "boneless muscle meat"...nothing magical about having to use chicken thighs.
If you're wanting to add more standard poultry, beef, pork, or other larger farmed animals, maybe you'd consider making a batch of balanced "Frankenprey" food and keep a few tubs in the freezer to rotate. This recipe has been around a long time and is trusted: Recipe: Feline Nutrition's Easy Raw Cat Food - Feline Nutrition Foundation
I rotate beef, pork, chicken for boneless meats, so you don't always have to stick to a recipe that specifically calls for chicken thighs. It's just "boneless muscle meat"...nothing magical about having to use chicken thighs.
Yes, I'll have to do a quick search and post in a moment when I find it.There's a website you can use to estimate what percentage of a chicken, for example, is bone, but I can't remember off the top of my head.
I believe this is the link
Ardina
was remembering for bone ratios in different cuts of meat: Bone Percentages in Raw Meaty Bones (RMB)
I will say that my own "kitchen data" does not match some items on that chart. For example, I occasionally skin and debone a package of chicken thighs and weigh the components separately (skin/bones, muscle meat). Fairly consistently get 11-11.5% bone in chicken thighs, so I'm not sure how that chart shows 21% unless chickens from different regions of the country are different breed types. I do use some of that chart data, because there's no way I'm going to try to debone a chicken neck or rib cage. I have way too much time on my hands...but not that much free time.
Ardina
was remembering for bone ratios in different cuts of meat: Bone Percentages in Raw Meaty Bones (RMB)I will say that my own "kitchen data" does not match some items on that chart. For example, I occasionally skin and debone a package of chicken thighs and weigh the components separately (skin/bones, muscle meat). Fairly consistently get 11-11.5% bone in chicken thighs, so I'm not sure how that chart shows 21% unless chickens from different regions of the country are different breed types. I do use some of that chart data, because there's no way I'm going to try to debone a chicken neck or rib cage. I have way too much time on my hands...but not that much free time.
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Why wouldn't you feed a cat raw food? We are actually in a sub-forum dedicated to feeding cats raw and homemade foods....
The dry food you are suggesting is actually the unhealthiest option for cats.
Just curious.. do you not think that animals were killed to create the dry food you feed your cat?
To the op.. the diet you're feeding sounds fantastic, as long as you are supplementing it with the necessary nutrients. But then again I don't know how that would work if you're feeding whole rats.. would he already be getting enough nutrients since he's getting the entire rat?
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Ok. Thanks for the input guys. And lol no the dog food is an occasional lazy meal for the rats, not for Ms. Charlie. Lazy as I will get with her diet is to go grain free canned cat food. Lazy or not, I have standards lol
I'm not going to worry too much about the unbalanced stuff then, as it is only very occasionally that I deviate from either whole prey or the canned.
As for what I raise, it varies. I'm trying out new projects all the time and sometimes the project sticks, other times not. I raised like 1 litter of hamsters before I decided it was too much of a hassle, and 3 litters of gerbils before I decided they were too troublesome as well. This is my second or third attempt at mice. I hate the suckers, but Charlie loves them and they are not cheap to buy frozen (also they tend to be poor quality compared to what I can raise). I did finches for a little while before they became too messy with the seed hulls going everywhere and their connstant pooping. I have pet birds who are worth the hassle, but not for a finch that is nothing more than a snack for my kitty. Ummm, I raised chickens for a little while, and plenty of other critters.
And each animal was put down in a humane mannar approved by goverment agencies in charge of feeder, livestock, and research animal dispatch. Nobody suffered.
I'm not going to worry too much about the unbalanced stuff then, as it is only very occasionally that I deviate from either whole prey or the canned.
As for what I raise, it varies. I'm trying out new projects all the time and sometimes the project sticks, other times not. I raised like 1 litter of hamsters before I decided it was too much of a hassle, and 3 litters of gerbils before I decided they were too troublesome as well. This is my second or third attempt at mice. I hate the suckers, but Charlie loves them and they are not cheap to buy frozen (also they tend to be poor quality compared to what I can raise). I did finches for a little while before they became too messy with the seed hulls going everywhere and their connstant pooping. I have pet birds who are worth the hassle, but not for a finch that is nothing more than a snack for my kitty. Ummm, I raised chickens for a little while, and plenty of other critters.
And each animal was put down in a humane mannar approved by goverment agencies in charge of feeder, livestock, and research animal dispatch. Nobody suffered.
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And the kmr is only like 1 tablespoon a day for the past three weeks as I have been raising these bunnies. I mix it a mite stronger than directions call for, add a splash of heavy cream, a pinch of acidophilus, sometimes a bit of bene bac, and when the bunnies were younger I also added a powdered goat colostrum supplement.
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Sounds like you have a very lucky and spoiled kitty!
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Ms. Charlie is certainly lucky! I do my best with raw feeding, but I'm definitely jealous that you have the time and resources to raise your own feed. 
I agree with everyone, the food sounds great! It makes me crave meat.
I would add an occasional egg, I believe the best way to feed eggs is to just boil it and then give it to the cat whole (with the shell).
I would add an occasional egg, I believe the best way to feed eggs is to just boil it and then give it to the cat whole (with the shell).
If raising and breeding birds and rodents is very troublesome for you, I'd suggest you look into nearby reptile conventions and expos! You can often get frozen rats, mice, African soft furs, and day-old chicks for much much cheaper than pet stores. I have snakes and get my rats for them in bulk at the reptile expo that comes to my city twice a year, for about 1/5th of the price I would be paying at a pet shop and with much higher quality. Most of the vendors there breed the animals themselves, so they can answer any questions you may have about how they are raised, euthanized, etc. Money-wise, it would still cost more than raising the animals yourself, but that might balance out depending on how much value you place on the time you commit to caring for the animals.
Now that I think about it, on a per-gram basis the rats I get are actually cheaper than the canned food I get for Jonesy, so maybe I'll let him try one!
Now that I think about it, on a per-gram basis the rats I get are actually cheaper than the canned food I get for Jonesy, so maybe I'll let him try one!
I think the diet you describe is a great diet for a cat. I feed raw, for years now, and my cats are so healthy I would never dream of feeding kibble again, no way. You are doing good by your cat. Good for you.
