Could a new bed be causing increased fighting?

[katiekat89]

I have two cats - Eleanor and Theodore. Eleanor is now 4, and I got her first in 2019. She is a wonderful cat and I have never really had issues with her. I got Theodore about 8 months after Eleanor, as a kitten. He is now 2. Eleanor was NOT happy when Theo came home, hissing and growling at him through the door. I kept them separate for about a week and eventually started letting them be together when they seemed okay. They are generally fine together. They even snuggle pretty frequently. They do still fight sometimes, and it’s weird. Theo seems to target Eleanor and she will run from him and hide under the TV stand or a chair, growling and hissing at Theo. Theo never hisses or growls, just meows in a sort of weird way. He completely ignores her hissing and growling and just waits for her or will crawl under with her and then…attack? I don’t really know what it is. But she will continue hissing and growling and he will sometimes come out with some tufts of her fur in her mouth. I have never seen an actual injury from this. I typically break it up, either by spraying Theo with water (I know this is bad but I’m not sure what else to do) or just getting in between them. I try to redirect him to a fuzzy toy, and sometimes that works, and sometimes Theo will redirect himself to that toy.

Last week, I got them a new little cave style bed. They are both obsessed with it but only one will fit at a time. Theo has tried to go in it a few times while Eleanor has been in it, and she immediately gets out. Interestingly, while Theo initiates the fights, he also usually initiates the snuggles. Anyway, they have just been rotating using it while one sleeps right outside it. However, I have also noticed this week that their fights have been way more frequent than usual, and nothing else in the environment has really changed that I can think of. Could the bed be causing them to fight more? I think I’m going to put it away and see what happens.

it does worry me how much they’ve been fighting, but even before the bed when they fight it’s just weird and I don’t get it. They snuggle, they both sleep with me at night, Eleanor is not afraid of Theo - she will walk right up to me while he’s on my lap, or lay next to him on the bed or the couch, they share their automatic feeder and have never had issues with either of them getting enough to eat. I give them each wet food in separate bowls every day and there’s never any fighting about that.

It all just worries me. I used to have an aggressive dog and I have a little ptsd from that, but I worry that if I leave them for a long period (even just like a weekend trip, which I’m planning for Christmas to see family), one of them might end up really hurting the other and I won’t be there to prevent it. I have gone on trips before and it seems like they don’t fight while I’m gone (that I have seen from checking in on them with my cameras), but I still get nervous. I do still have someone come and check on them once a day if I’m gone, but they’re both timid and hide under the bed the whole time the person is here.

does anyone have any thoughts on this? I feel bad for Eleanor in particular, because I feel like Theo is bullying her.

photo of them snuggling attached from just a couple days ago.

 

[Furballsmom]

I think I’m going to put it away and see what happens.

Can you instead get a second bed and put it right next to the current one?

 

[katiekat89]

Can you instead get a second bed and put it right next to the current one?

Yeah, that’s my next option! I ordered another one and was supposed to get it tonight but it was out of stock so they’re shipping it. In the meantime I’m going to put the other one away.

 

[Furballsmom]

it was out of stock so they’re shipping it.

I understand
Let us know how they behave towards each other

 

[ArtNJ]

Its logical enough to get a second one, sure won't hurt anything but your wallet, and its possible it will help some. But TBH once you get the second bed, its even money that they stop using both of them. Regardless, its not the real problem, just one manifestation.

Its a little hard for me to be sure whats going on but since Theo never hisses, I think its probably one of two things. First, he could just be an over-enthusiastic player that is stupid about the hair pulling. I've not had that, but I've read about it. Second, and this I've experienced, it seems that very rarely, a cat that initially wants to play can get aggressive if the other cat reacts to the desire to play by growling, hissing and swatting. Either of these are a bit unusual, so I'm not entirely sure what to recommend.

Do you think it could be one of those two scenarios, or soemthing else?

 

[katiekat89]

Its logical enough to get a second one, sure won't hurt anything but your wallet, and its possible it will help some. But TBH once you get the second bed, its even money that they stop using both of them. Regardless, its not the real problem, just one manifestation.

Its a little hard for me to be sure whats going on but since Theo never hisses, I think its probably one of two things. First, he could just be an over-enthusiastic player that is stupid about the hair pulling. I've not had that, but I've read about it. Second, and this I've experienced, it seems that very rarely, a cat that initially wants to play can get aggressive if the other cat reacts to the desire to play by growling, hissing and swatting. Either of these are a bit unusual, so I'm not entirely sure what to recommend.

Do you think it could be one of those two scenarios, or soemthing else?

It could be either. It’s so hard, and they used to play normally but recently that’s been happening less and it’s more of this. So I don’t know if eleanor is now just always expecting the play to be too rough and then that hissing and growling is causing Theo to be more rough? I just got a video of a classic example but I don’t think I can upload it :/ it’s also weird because eleanor actually seems to start it sometimes - tonight theo was behind a door and el came up and started swatting at him. Then he chased her and she hid under the tv stand growling at him. But right now they’re both on my bed, laying on/next to me just fine.

 

[danteshuman]

Maybe a cat tree would be better then a bed? That way Eleanor can get up high away from you well bit of a bully. A tree in the bedroom & a tree in the living room might help a lot.

My boy visits his 2 siblings and they always steal his bed & he steals one of their beds or the spot in the cat tree. Sometimes I think they just like stealing from each other.

Try giving them a box with 2 exits and watch them fight over that! You can buy a play cube or two but boxes are cheaper. Be sure to tape the top of the box because they will probably get on top of the box.

 

[katiekat89]

Maybe a cat tree would be better then a bed? That way Eleanor can get up high away from you well bit of a bully. A tree in the bedroom & a tree in the living room might help a lot.

My boy visits his 2 siblings and they always steal his bed & he steals one of their beds or the spot in the cat tree. Sometimes I think they just like stealing from each other.

Try giving them a box with 2 exits and watch them fight over that! You can buy a play cube or two but boxes are cheaper. Be sure to tape the top of the box because they will probably get on top of the box.

I’ve been thinking the same - about eleanor being able to get up high and get away. At My old apartment, she used to be able to jump up on top of my bookcase and would frequently do so. Here, she can’t because I don’t have anything next to it to help her up there (at my last place I had a chair next to it she could jump from). A cat tree could be useful. The layout of my apartment is weird and small, so I’m not exactly sure where it would go, but I think I need to try and figure it out.

 

[danteshuman]

You can buy pole cat trees that fit into a corner or buy/make cat shelves for tight places. A few shelves to form a ladder to your bookcase might work.

 

[arr]

I think it’s playing, not fighting. If Eleanor was really being bullied, she wouldn’t cuddle with Theo. She would act afraid of him. I have a boy and a girl, siblings. He loves to wrestle and chase, that is not her style. She prefers playing with a toy. Most of the time, when he initiates this chase and wrestle, she hisses and carries on like he is killing her. Tufts of fur fly. But she is not afraid of him. She will run and usually climb someplace high, but it’s more that she doesn’t want to be bugged. Occasionally, she will initiate a chase and wrestle. If it’s her idea, she is perfectly quiet. Also, she likes to be in the dominant position when play fighting. She likes to be on top. If he is on top, then she screams bloody murder.
Her carrying on sounds so alarming that I used to be worried about it, but they eat together, sleep together, groom each other. So I don’t worry about it now.

 

[katiekat89]

I think it’s playing, not fighting. If Eleanor was really being bullied, she wouldn’t cuddle with Theo. She would act afraid of him. I have a boy and a girl, siblings. He loves to wrestle and chase, that is not her style. She prefers playing with a toy. Most of the time, when he initiates this chase and wrestle, she hisses and carries on like he is killing her. Tufts of fur fly. But she is not afraid of him. She will run and usually climb someplace high, but it’s more that she doesn’t want to be bugged. Occasionally, she will initiate a chase and wrestle. If it’s her idea, she is perfectly quiet. Also, she likes to be in the dominant position when play fighting. She likes to be on top. If he is on top, then she screams bloody murder.
Her carrying on sounds so alarming that I used to be worried about it, but they eat together, sleep together, groom each other. So I don’t worry about it now.

And theyve never had any injuries or anything? This definitely sounds like eleanor.

 

[katiekat89]

Also an update: I put the bed away (other one is still on the way) and I thought things had improved until last night and tonight. Had a bunch of chasing/targeting Eleanor and some attacks - I separated them multiple times and even when I had to go to the grocery store I decided to keep them separate. I got home and let Theo out of my bedroom and once again he went after her. I moved the bookshelf on Sunday and el was actually able to get up there! But then Theo followed her and more fighting ensued eventually they just calmed down and both went to sleep for a bit. Trying to play with them now, emailed a bunch of behaviorists tonight, and going to call my vet in the morning to talk about having him (or both of them?) checked out. Was also going to discuss medication for Theo possibly since he also has the history of inappropriate urination & eating all the things he shouldn’t (pica?).

 

[danteshuman]

Can you move something or give her a shelf as a way down from the bookshelf?

Is he chasing her over territory or boredom (you will play & be the prey..... whether you want to or not!!!)

 

[arr]

And theyve never had any injuries or anything? This definitely sounds like eleanor.

No, I used to check Chloe’s fur for scabs or bloody spots. There hasn’t been anything. He even puts his jaws around her neck. It’s alarming, but there is nothing there. He had put his jaws around my hand or wrist, and it is gentle. He’s not applying pressure. I think there is a lot of posturing with cats when they are play fighting. I don’t believe he is really hurting her, I think she just doesn’t like it. (My cats)

 

[katiekat89]

Can you move something or give her a shelf as a way down from the bookshelf?

Is he chasing her over territory or boredom (you will play & be the prey..... whether you want to or not!!!)

Potentially, I’ll have to look at it again. My apartment is so small and weirdly laid out that it’s tough trying to find space for things that makes sense. I did order a cat tree that’s supposed to arrive tomorrow so we will have two high perches…but I am also nervous about putting it up in case there is fighting or they get territorial about that too. I think I might wait until after I get back from Christmas to put it up.

i can’t tell if it’s territorial or boredom. Maybe boredom, but I try hard to not have them get too bored. We play, I have a puzzle feeder for him (eleanor isn’t food motivated enough for that. He has a ton of scratchers, toys, ball tracks, etc. but I’m sure there’s more I could be doing.

 

[Alldara]

K katiekat89 boys can be too rough when they get hyper. Do they have separate wand toy play time? Getting some extra energy out will help for sure. But that can be hard with a cat whose energy seems endless.

Another thing I use is a very brightly coloured oven mitt (a holiday one to be exact). Different from our plain grey ones for cooking. I keep this colourful oven mitt upstairs and use it to wrestle the cats on the bed. I can slip my hand out if they start kicking or biting too hard and they aren't learning to do this to my bare hand, but it really stops the two young ones from getting too out of hand with one another. Or Cal from jumping on Nobel's back. When a cat needs to wrestle and feels they can only get that from the other cat, it can cause conflict. I make a specific sound when playing with them too, as kind of a trigger sound for playing.

We also put up bird feeders outside, and they can window watch. It keeps them very occupied while we work.

Cat calming music, or really most music can help. My cats love to have music on. (They have buttons to ask for things. Music is frequently pressed.)

Tissue or brown paper is a big hit for attacking and hiding in, kicking and biting. I just compost/recycle it after.

 

[katiekat89]

An update - I got them a second bed which has been good, but there is still fighting. I took Theo to the vet but he appears healthy. Vet recommended trying gabapentin. I consulted with a behaviorist and she agreed to try the gabapentin but also that we may need to do a complete reintroduction. I went out of town for Christmas and she suggested keeping them separate while I’m gone for my own peace of mind.

i left yesterday, and will be back tomorrow afternoon, and I just started spiraling about them being kept separate while I’ve been gone. I’m wondering if this is going to cause more problems or if I will now need to do a reintroduction, or if they will remember each other fine and I won’t need to go through that whole process. It will only have been a couple days, but I’m just so scared of making things worse. Anyone have experience just keeping cats separated for a few days after years of living together?

i also tried the gabapentin on Friday - Theo threw up about 2 hours after taking it and was just completely out of it. Falling all over the place and just staring into space. I don’t want him to lose his entire personality! I think I am going to try again when I get back with a half dose. We’ll see. Wondering if anyone has experience with cats on gabapentin long term for aggression/anxiety.

 

[Alldara]

K katiekat89 Sometimes if there is agression like that, a few days apart for a reset is good. Sometimes they don't recognize each other, either way is it highly likely you needed to do a full reintroduction anyway. You never know with cats, u til, unfortunately, there's a reason to find out like your situation now.

I had to after there was deffered agression from Nobel to our late cat. Then I learned the signs and symptoms over time of his stress and what can trigger it, now I know when to give him that time in a separate room by himself before it starts. Like when he returns from the vet, he needs 20 min to an hour to relax by himself, maybe eat. Closing the blinds at night so he doesn't see the neighbors' cat, etc.

However, I will note that there was bullying from our late cat to Nobel that went unnoticed. Likely could have been caught with a petcam. So I do wonder about that in other homes too. She was an angel in front of us, not so much on video. So it makes sense that he lashed out at her when scared.