considering a raw diet for my senior kitty with chronic vomiting issues... suggestions requested

[mrskm]

First, a little background...

My cat Meowsley has had vomiting issues in one form or another, off and on, since we adopted him 3 years ago. On his surrender form, his previous owners said they had him since he was a kitten, and free-fed him dry Meow Mix his whole life. He was nearly 30 pounds when they surrendered him at animal control. 

Recently, he's been vomiting much more frequently... nearly every day for over 2 weeks. 

Naturally, I took him to the vet. Blood test revealed normal levels for everything, and they did an ultrasound. Veterinarian will call me with the results for that in a couple days (they don't have it done in-house?).

I've been reading through the forums, and I've seen a lot of positive outcomes for folks who have switched to a raw diet when faced with mystery vomiting and/or IBD. So, I'm seriously considering trying it. He's currently eating Wellness CORE canned. 

I love that there are a ton of informative articles on this site, and I've read some of the suggested outside resources also (Dr. Pierson's site, cat nutrition.org). It seems like it would take a bit of investment to get started making a raw diet at home (meat grinder, for instance). I was thinking about trying a commercially prepared raw diet at first to see how he does on it, and if he does well, invest in the needed tools and start making it at home. Thoughts on this? Suggestions on brands that you like?

Unfortunately, I can't exactly turn to my veterinarian for support on this. She has already mentioned the possibility of switching to a prescription diet of some kind, and frankly I'm not enthused about that suggestion, given the ingredients typically found in these diets, and the expense for those ingredients! 

Thanks so much for reading and any feedback you may provide!

 

[missmimz]

Did they test his thyroid? I ask because my senior was thought to have IBD, and just recently had a high thyroid test. He may still have some IBD, but vomiting is actually a fairly common symptom of hyperthyroidism, especially in the early stages. 

For commerical, Rad Cat is a really popular and well-liked brand. I started with RC before i moved to making my own. In terms of making your own you might look at Hare Today which is a popular site a lot of us buy from. It's pre-ground and frozen so it's safe to thaw and feed your cat once you add the proper supplement. I don't have a grinder, so this is the "easy" way to make raw. 

How were your kitty's kidney levels? Seniors are of course prone to kidney issues so you might be careful about feeding a lot of bone. RC doesn't use bone and you can also buy boneless from HT. I feed my senior boneless because its just what he prefers. 

 

[mrskm]

Yes, they checked a bunch of things with the lab work and thyroid and kidneys were "perfect." Thyroid levels weren't even close to being in the high range, and that was what they always suspected every time I brought him in for the vomiting, because of his age as you said. Just to be clear, no official diagnosis yet of IBD. It might also be helpful to point out that his urination and stools are completely normal (thankfully!).

Thank you so very much for the suggestions! I have heard of Rad Cat but I hadn't heard of Hare Today. That would be awesome to be able to skip using a meat grinder. To be honest, I wasn't particularly excited about that aspect of it, LOL

I'll check them out.

 

[missmimz]

 
Yes, they checked a bunch of things with the lab work and thyroid and kidneys were "perfect." Thyroid levels weren't even close to being in the high range, as that was what they always suspected every time I brought him in for the vomiting. Just to be clear, no official diagnosis yet of IBD. It might also be helpful to point out that his urination and stools are completely normal (thankfully!).

Thank you so very much for the suggestions! I have heard of Rad Cat but I hadn't heard of Hare Today. That would be awesome to be able to skip using a meat grinder. To be honest, I wasn't particularly excited about that aspect of it, LOL

I'll check them out.

Good to hear his tests were great! The only downside with HT is they have a minimum order amount of 10lbs and if you live on the west coast shipping can be pricey. But the quality of the meat is excellent. I've been using them for about a year. Zero complaints. You might want to start with a commercial brand like RC before committing to 10lbs of raw meat. Good luck  

 

[lisahe]

I agree about Rad Cat being a good start: it's how we got our cats started on raw food, too. They loved it from the start. We feed them a lot of commercial raw food (mostly Primal freeze-dried) but they like their daily Rad Cat snack best of everything. I buy Rad Cat at local independent stores; any of them will order it for me.

One note about making food: a food processor can work pretty nicely if you have one of those but don't have a grinder. I made Dr. Pierson's recipe once (with bone meal instead of bone) in the food processor, with half-cooked boneless chicken thighs, and the cats absolutely loved it. I seem to recall that Dr. Pierson doesn't think bone meal's a great option over the long-term but there are other options for homemade foods that don't require grinding bone. One is a new supplement called Food Fur Life: I haven't tried it (not yet, but it's on the calendar for next month!) but love their concept because it requires boneless meat and can be used with cooked or raw meat that you chop, cut, shred, slice, dice, or process however you (meaning your cats!) want it. I've never wanted to get into the grinder, either: beyond the expense and the space, our cats are more into chunks and shreds than smoother foods. One of the co-founders of Food Fur Life is @LDG, who's incredibly knowledgeable about cat nutrition and cats in general, which means that I trust what they're doing. Their supplement seems to really fit what I want to do so can't wait to try it when work calms down a little next month!

It's great that you've taken Meowsly off dry food, are feeding him canned, and don't want to put him on a prescription food that's likely grainy. One thing I'd watch out for with the Wellness food, though, is carrageenan, which can cause GI issues. Our cats get about 40% canned foods and I won't feed them more than an occasional food with carrageenan (they still love Wellness Core's kitten food!) because they have sensitive enough stomachs as it is.

Good luck with the ultrasound and the food quest!

 

[mrskm]

Yeah, have you read the ingredients list on the Meow Mix dry food?! There's like, no meat at all basically! They probably just didn't know it was so bad. Our cats that we had when I was a kid were fed all dry food (royal canin), because we didn't know any better. Animal control fed him (and the rest of the animals) half canned and half dry, simply because they don't have enough funds or donations to feed all canned, but they do when they can. 

@LisaHE  yes thanks for bringing that up! I read about the carrageenan on another blog, I think it may have been Ingrid King's Conscious Cat website? At one point I did try switching him over to the few canned foods I could find that didn't have carrageenan, but I couldn't get him to eat it. 

 After that, I wrote to Wellness regarding the carrageenan in their canned foods, and they actually responded! This is part of the response they sent me:

"• Carrageenan is a natural carbohydrate that has been extracted from a variety of red seaweed
• There are two types of Carrageenan: Degraded and Un-Degraded
• Un-Degraded (food-grade) Carrageenan is all that is used in WellPet products
• Carrageenan is used to help prevent separation of liquids, improve loaf structure and add texture that pets love
• Un-Degraded (food-grade) Carrageenan is quite expensive and is used in very small amounts
• Un-Degraded (food-grade) Carrageenan has been used on a large scale in worldwide food production since the early 1930’s
• Un-degraded (food-grade) Carrageenan’s safety has been assured by the FDA GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) status
• Both the United Nations’ Food and Agriculture Organization and the World Health Organization consider this sea vegetable non-toxic, non-teratogenic and non-carcinogenic
• Some recent research actually shows that Un-Degraded (food-grade) Carrageenan resists degradation in the digestive tract and is therefore unlikely to even be absorbed
• Degraded carrageenan has been chemically treated (hydrolyzed with acid) and is a known carcinogen and is not used in any WellPet products

We are staying on top of the latest research regarding carrageenan and will continue to evaluate alternative ingredients."

Yeah, pretty cookie-cutter response, I'd say, but I still give them kudos for responding to my question. 

Getting back to the raw food diet, we do have a food processor, thanks so much for that suggestion! Good to know that is an option, as we aren't hugely into cooking so the meat grinder will basically only be used for the cat food, hehe. That's one thing about Meowsley, he definitely prefers the "paté" ground-style food over chunks or shreds, so I knew I'd have to do the ground-style raw food over the "prey-model" method. 

I do have another question. I currently live on the East Coast, and I don't know of any local farms/butchers nearby that I could get the fresh stuff directly (if/when I move to that step... I plan to try the Rad Cat first, thanks to your suggestions!). On Dr. Pierson's site, she talks about avoiding already ground meat because of increased risk of bacterial contamination. Forgive my ignorance, but why is there less risk with buying the already ground meat from the Hare Today site? Is it because it's frozen? What about ground meat at the supermarket that is frozen? 

Thanks so much for this information, I'm learning a lot! 

 

[lisahe]

I, too, was someone who didn't know how to feed a cat: our previous cat ended up with what was most likely IBD and lymphoma (she was too old and frail for real diagnostics) and I still feel terrible that we didn't know how to feed her properly. (Of course it's another matter that none of the vets in the practice we took her to knew how to feed her! We take our new cats to a different vet, thank goodness, because they definitely have high-maintenance stomachs!)

And you've gotten at one of the most difficult things about feeding cats: sometimes they'll only eat what has ingredients that aren't good for them. Someone else on TCS got the same (or a very similar) response from Wellness about the carrageenan. We've been lucky that our cats will eat plenty of foods without it (Tiki, Weruva, Bravo canned, Soulistic, Merrick LID, and some Nutro Natural Choice are the main ones) but it can be difficult to try out lots of foods. I wish all the companies would get rid of carrageenan: it's not really necessary to begin with!

I hope the food processor can help you. I made a nice texture of food in ours, it was sort of between chopped and ground. I'd also cut some larger pieces (as Dr. Pierson recommended) to mix in with it.

I don't know the answers to your questions about ground meat from Hare Today, sorry!

 

[missmimz]

One is a new supplement called Food Fur Life: I haven't tried it (not yet, but it's on the calendar for next month!) but love their concept because it requires boneless meat and can be used with cooked or raw meat that you chop, cut, shred, slice, dice, or process however you (meaning your cats!) want it. 

Thanks for this info! I didn't know about their product. Has anyone on the site used it yet that you know of? I've been looking for a different pre-mix because my oldest eats boneless with alnutrin but won't eat it when i add organs. I tried other mixes that have organs in them but he wont eat them. 

 

[lisahe]

It's brand-new, @missmimz, I found out about it on the Facebook group "Raw Feeding for IBD Cats." I haven't gone back to see if people have tried it... the last I saw (a while ago, I've been really caught up in work lately and haven't had a chance to dig through old posts!) some had ordered it. I love that it's designed for boneless meat, raw or cooked, so definitely want to give it a try.

 

[missmimz]

 
It's brand-new, @missmimz, I found out about it on the Facebook group "Raw Feeding for IBD Cats." I haven't gone back to see if people have tried it... the last I saw (a while ago, I've been really caught up in work lately and haven't had a chance to dig through old posts!) some had ordered it. I love that it's designed for boneless meat, raw or cooked, so definitely want to give it a try.

I just joined that group 

 I think I'm going to buy some it looks really great and it would be a great switch for my oldest with some IBD. 

 

[lisahe]

 
I just joined that group 

 I think I'm going to buy some it looks really great and it would be a great switch for my oldest with some IBD. 

That group is really helpful! There's also been discussion of the new treated Rad Cat... I'm still feeding the untreated stuff but was glad for the warning that some cats were hesitant about the HPP-treated food.

And yes, Food Fur Life looks great. Flexible!

 

[missmimz]

 
That group is really helpful! There's also been discussion of the new treated Rad Cat... I'm still feeding the untreated stuff but was glad for the warning that some cats were hesitant about the HPP-treated food.

And yes, Food Fur Life looks great. Flexible!

I couldn't help myself I just ordered some. I'm excited to try it! I was wondering if there would be issues with the new RC. I'm fairly certain I haven't purchased any of the new formula yet, but I'm going to be more cautious about it. 

 

[lisahe]

 I'm fairly certain I haven't purchased any of the new formula yet, but I'm going to be more cautious about it. 

The lids are allegedly marked. (I checked the Rad Cat site about the changes when I saw the comments on FB...)

 

[mrskm]

Just got off the phone with my veterinarian....

Good news is, there's no signs of cancer or obstruction. Bad news, there are signs of IBS. You guys suspected it, I was in denial about it, and now it's official. 

She wants to start him on a prescription diet (dry?!!!!), prednisolone, and weekly B-12 shots. I managed to tell her that I didn't want to do the prednisolone long term. I also asked if she thought it would be okay to try a commercially available diet first instead of the prescription, and thankfully she didn't seem to mind that. I'm always concerned about coming across as disrespectful when I am not necessarily interested in doing everything they suggest! I don't want to do that at all. I didn't specify which commercial diet I was going to try though. I don't know for sure, but I am almost certain she would not be supportive of doing a raw diet. I did pick some up today before she called and have already started transitioning him. So far so good!

Also, is it possible for someone to share the link for that Facebook group you all mentioned? I know I can use any support I can get right now! 

 

 

[missmimz]

 
Just got off the phone with my veterinarian....

Good news is, there's no signs of cancer or obstruction. Bad news, there are signs of IBS. You guys suspected it, I was in denial about it, and now it's official. 

She wants to start him on a prescription diet (dry?!!!!), prednisolone, and weekly B-12 shots. I managed to tell her that I didn't want to do the prednisolone long term. I also asked if she thought it would be okay to try a commercially available diet first instead of the prescription, and thankfully she didn't seem to mind that. I'm always concerned about coming across as disrespectful when I am not necessarily interested in doing everything they suggest! I don't want to do that at all. I didn't specify which commercial diet I was going to try though. I don't know for sure, but I am almost certain she would not be supportive of doing a raw diet. I did pick some up today before she called and have already started transitioning him. So far so good!

Also, is it possible for someone to share the link for that Facebook group you all mentioned? I know I can use any support I can get right now! 

 

Sure! Here are the two FB groups. I think they'll be a wealth of resources for you 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RawFedIBD/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/CatCentric/

I know you might not like this, but you might want to seek out a vet that supports raw/homecooked or knows more about feline nutrition. My vet, for example, does a balance of holistic and modern medicine, She fully supports raw feeding and knows about nutrition, which was incredibly important to me. A lot of holistic vet's support raw/homecooked. I found my vet just searching online for holistic vets, because I live in a new area and don't really know anyone. But word of mouth is great too. 

 

[missmimz]

I do have another question. I currently live on the East Coast, and I don't know of any local farms/butchers nearby that I could get the fresh stuff directly (if/when I move to that step... I plan to try the Rad Cat first, thanks to your suggestions!). On Dr. Pierson's site, she talks about avoiding already ground meat because of increased risk of bacterial contamination. Forgive my ignorance, but why is there less risk with buying the already ground meat from the Hare Today site? Is it because it's frozen? What about ground meat at the supermarket that is frozen? 

Thanks so much for this information, I'm learning a lot! 

I'm fairly certain HT flash freezes their meat to eliminate a lot of the bacteria issues that you'd find in places like your supermarket where they aren't as cautious about the meats exposure as they know that the meat will be cooked and not consumed raw. Frozen supermarket ground meat is still ground at a facility that doesn't monitor or clean their equipment for raw consumption, if that makes sense. HT I know grinds, packs, and ships on site. I know they also raise some of the meat themselves (like rabbits) and purchase other meats from local farmers. They only produce raw foods for raw consumption.  I've never had an issue with their meats and i feed raw to my cats and my dog. 

 

[mrskm]

@missmimz  thanks so much for the additional info on the differences between HT and supermarket ground meat. That completely makes sense. I figured it probably was something like that, but feel more confident now! 

Thank you also for the links! I'll definitely be joining. 

We are actually moving this summer anyway (my husband is active-duty Navy), so a new veterinarian is on the horizon for us no matter what. I will keep my eyes peeled for a holistic veterinarian in our next location. Thanks again for the suggestions, so much appreciated!! 

 

[kittyluv387]

Honestly when it comes to digestion issues everyone should try raw first before getting their cat on not so great prescription diets!  I also suggest primal.  I use primal frozen nuggets.  I have a particularly difficult kitty because whenever he eats any type of dry or even high quality canned, he gets diarrhea.  This raw stuff is the only thing that works for him.

 

[lisahe]

Good news is, there's no signs of cancer or obstruction. Bad news, there are signs of IBS. You guys suspected it, I was in denial about it, and now it's official. 

She wants to start him on a prescription diet (dry?!!!!), prednisolone, and weekly B-12 shots. I managed to tell her that I didn't want to do the prednisolone long term. I also asked if she thought it would be okay to try a commercially available diet first instead of the prescription, and thankfully she didn't seem to mind that. I'm always concerned about coming across as disrespectful when I am not necessarily interested in doing everything they suggest! I don't want to do that at all. I didn't specify which commercial diet I was going to try though. I don't know for sure, but I am almost certain she would not be supportive of doing a raw diet. I did pick some up today before she called and have already started transitioning him. So far so good!

Also, is it possible for someone to share the link for that Facebook group you all mentioned? I know I can use any support I can get right now! 

 

I'm glad it turned out to be signs of IBD rather than cancer. Other good news is that you seem to have caught the problem before it got too bad.

As for what to say to the vet, I used the approach of "I'd like to try commercial foods" when our previous cat's vet wanted to put her on prescription kidney food. (Brooksie had mild kidney disease as well as thyroid issues but it was IBD/lymphoma that was her main problem. She was barely eating at all and I was pretty sure -- before the vets -- that she had IBD so the last thing I was going to do was put her on junky low-protein food with grain fillers that she probably wouldn't eat anyway!) The vet didn't really approve of the commercial diet but then when IBD was established (circumstantially), I mentioned Rad Cat and the vet actually said, "Don't feed her any of that Rad Cat!"

Which, of course, I did. And, of course, Brooksie liked the Rad Cat and would eat it! A combination of canned and raw grain-free commercial foods with lowish phosphorus improved her kidney numbers and reduced her IBD symptoms so at least she could feel a little better in her last months. The vet was surprised but I wasn't.

 

Of course I'm curious: What kind of raw food did you buy today? Whatever it was, it sounds like Meowsly liked it. I hope so: as @kittyluv387 said, raw food can make all the difference with cats who have digestive issues. Fingers crossed that that, on its own, helps. Maybe he's a cat that just needs that form of food or maybe there was something in the canned foods (carrageenan? potato? was he getting a Wellness Core food with potato? potato makes one of our cats barf...) that was bothering him?

 

[mrskm]

 
Of course I'm curious: What kind of raw food did you buy today? 

Well, I wanted to buy the RC as you all suggested, but the closest retailer to me that carried it, according to the website, was over 30 minutes away. I didn't want to wait to order it, so I went with Stella and Chewy's, which is carried by my local pet store. He has been reluctant to eat recently (and not surprisingly so, he was feeling nauseated!), but with the little bit of the raw food mixed in with his regular food, he happily chowed down. I'm so tempted to speed up the transition process, but I know the best thing is to go slowly, since he's not "in crisis." 

Thanks again to @missmimz  for linking the Facebook group. They have so many files with valuable information! It's a lot of information, but I'm trying to take it all in. Between this group and the Facebook group I feel more confident in helping my sweet boy to get well. I'll keep you all posted on his progress!