Computer Advice

misty8723

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Has anyone bought a desktop computer lately? My husband is looking to replace his 10 year old Dell Inspiron and was going to buy a Dell XPS until we started reading reviews about how loud the fan is. From quick research, it looks like most of the major brands (Lenovo, HP, Asus) have that same problem. Has anyone bought any desktop PC (tower, not laptop). If so, is the fan noisy? Husband is very sensitive to noise and that would drive him (and me) crazy. Thanks.
 

daftcat75

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Has anyone bought a desktop computer lately? My husband is looking to replace his 10 year old Dell Inspiron and was going to buy a Dell XPS until we started reading reviews about how loud the fan is. From quick research, it looks like most of the major brands (Lenovo, HP, Asus) have that same problem. Has anyone bought any desktop PC (tower, not laptop). If so, is the fan noisy? Husband is very sensitive to noise and that would drive him (and me) crazy. Thanks.
Have a look into the fan-less tiny desktops that Lenovo makes.

This isn’t the newest processor or the largest hard drive. But it’s plenty quick and capable with more than enough memory. Memory (RAM) will be the single most important factor for getting enough speed out of a desktop machine. I wouldn’t consider anything less than 16 GB.

Amazon.com: Lenovo Thinkcentre M93 Tiny Desktop, Intel Core i5-4670T 2.3GHz, 16GB DDR3, 256GB Solid State Drive, WiFi, Win10Pro (Renewed): Computers & Accessories

You’ll have to provide your own monitor. But you’re paying so little on the computer, that shouldn’t be an issue. You can search Amazon or eBay for “Lenovo Tiny” if you want different specifications than this.
 

daftcat75

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Here's one that I, as a computer professional, would buy if I didn't already have three of these in a lesser configuration (4 core, 16 GB, 256 - 500GB SSD):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FPNXNN2/?tag=thecatsite

This one has 6 cores (more processor cores means more workers to handle the individual tasks that makes a program run), 16 GB of RAM and 500 GB SSD (solid state drives are faster than traditional hard drives.)

EDIT: It's not letting me link directly to the configuration: i5-8400T | 16GB | 500GB SSD

There's lots of configurations to choose from here at different price points. I recommend staying at 16 GB of RAM or above. The rest is up to you depending on the kinds of workloads you run. If you just check email and browse the web and watch the occasional video, you probably don't need anything more than a quad core. If you play graphics-intensive games and edit videos, you might want to maximize the specs within your budget.
 

vyger

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There are a lot of different kinds of fans. Manufacturers usually put the cheapest ones they can get in stock made machines. It's hard to believe in a way because the cost difference is relatively small but these companies are trying to maximize their profits. The cheapest fans use what are called sleeve bearings. They are also the shortest lived. It is a metal to metal thing with the shaft just rotating around in a metal sleeve. When the oil drys up in them the shaft gets harder to turn and they shortly after stop turning. If it's in a power supply when the fan goes out the unit overheats and then the capacitors either pop or leak all their fluid out and it dies. If it's the fan on the processor, it overheats and shuts down or sometimes just burns out. Fans that have ball bearings last much longer and will continue to work even if they are dry, but they will sqeel to let you know they are in trouble.
So there is a big variety of fans. When I custom build a machine I always use the better fans and often will put in a fan controller which allows you to turn the speed of the fans up and down. I also add extra fans so you can have them run at lower RPM but still move lots of air. Also there are larger size fans that turn slower. Finally the ultimate is using water cooling. I don't know if they are doing that much anymore but that works by pumping water through cooling blocks and then running it through a radiator much like a cars engine does.
I believe most of the better main boards have a fan controller built in that varies the speed of the processor fan depending on it's temperature.
So, most standard desktop computers are built cheap and them making noise is not something the designers usually worry about. A custom built one can be made specifically to keep the fan noise down but it will cost more. Also different components have different noise levels. A high end video card that generates a lot of heat have big fans in it and is noisy but those are usually only put into gaming rigs and people playing games don't often care about that because it gets drown out by the game playing.
So does that confuse you enough? OH also, a standard machine can be modified and have the cheap fans replaced with better ones but that can sometimes voids the warranty although I never had a problem with that.
And another thing, a lot of desktop machines have been shrunk down in size. They put laptop components in them to make them smaller so another consideration would be to just get a good laptop and skip the desktop altogether.
 

vyger

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One more thing, there is a company called Newegg. that usually has much more and better computer stuff than Amazon.
Newegg.com

Personally I generally don't like Lenovo. IBM used to make a whole line of PC's but they decided to dump them and continue to make only the big business servers. They sold their personal PC division to a Chinese company which renamed it Lenovo. I don't know, maybe I just haven't forgiven IBM for being a sell out.
 
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misty8723

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Have a look into the fan-less tiny desktops that Lenovo makes.

This isn’t the newest processor or the largest hard drive. But it’s plenty quick and capable with more than enough memory. Memory (RAM) will be the single most important factor for getting enough speed out of a desktop machine. I wouldn’t consider anything less than 16 GB.

Amazon.com: Lenovo Thinkcentre M93 Tiny Desktop, Intel Core i5-4670T 2.3GHz, 16GB DDR3, 256GB Solid State Drive, WiFi, Win10Pro (Renewed): Computers & Accessories

You’ll have to provide your own monitor. But you’re paying so little on the computer, that shouldn’t be an issue. You can search Amazon or eBay for “Lenovo Tiny” if you want different specifications than this.
Thank you, but Hubby is looking for a full tower. These little ones seem like you might as well get a laptop. :)
 
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misty8723

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Thanks! We are actually thinking about having one custom built, but not sure what the best choices. My husband, Gary, asked me to copy a post he made on what he is looking for to see if you might have any additional advice.

I'm looking to replace my current tower desktop PC, a 10-year old Dell Inspiron now running Windows 7. I've been looking at buying another Dell, specifically a Dell XPS 8930 tower desktop. The 8930 offers all the features I want (high capacity power supply, expansion slots, Intel ninth generation i7 or i9 processor, 16 or 32 GB of RAM, 516 GB SSD, 2 TB 7200 RPM SATA HDD, WiFi card, NVIDIA 6 GB graphics card, built-in audio, many USB 3.0 ports, TPM on motherboard, DVD/CD reader/writer and Windows 10 Pro). Multiple reviews on the web recommend the 8930 as the best non-gaming tower desktop PC currently available.

Initially I was very excited with the 8930 and I was about to order it from Dell. However, just before I did so I discovered that the 8930 has a major problem with fan noise, and also CPU chip cooling issues. There are many internet posts and YouTube videos about this. The noise is VERY loud, even when the computer is idle -- like a vacuum cleaner. One 8930 owner put up a video about this problem. The video shows the noise to be very loud, and shows that the problem is caused by the cheap cooling fan Dell provides for the CPU chip (the noise went away when the owner used his thumb to stop the fan blade). That video, other videos and internet posts show the underlying issue to be Dell's poor case design for the 8930, which does not allow for a better CPU chip fan and which restricts air flow.

I was very disappointed by this discovery. The 8930 noise would be extremely annoying (intolerable) to me. I'm not about to spend about $2000 on a PC that would drive me crazy. Based on what I've learned about the 8930, I will not be buying another Dell PC.

Are there any computer geeks/experts out there who could suggest alternatives to the 8930 and/or who could point me to on-line forums/groups where I could pursue this. I am looking for a high-end traditional non-gaming tower desktop PC, not a laptop PC and not one of the new small forms.
 

daftcat75

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Thank you, but Hubby is looking for a full tower. These little ones seem like you might as well get a laptop. :)
Why does he want a tower? Do you have peripherals like CD/DVD you want to bring over? You can get external components that connect via USB. I haven't had an optical drive in years and I don't miss them. A full tower will need a full fan to keep it cool. The tiny desktops are more than capable. They won't clutter your desktop or have a footprint beneath your desk. And the parts inside are chosen to run with low power requirements saving you the need for a fan. If quiet operation is a priority, you may want to reconsider a small form factor/tiny desktop.
 
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misty8723

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I appreciate the links; however, he wants a full size tower. I'm not sure I like those tiny ones, it seems to make more sense to me to just get a laptop. Also we would definitely not be buying from Amazon. Nothing against Amazon, I buy a lot from them, but when buying from Dell we would customize it from the manufacturer. I also got a quote from Lenovo, but I don't think they're any better. Most likely he'll end up getting one custom made. There's a shop up the road from us who does it and they get very good reviews.
 
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misty8723

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Why does he want a tower? Do you have peripherals like CD/DVD you want to bring over? You can get external components that connect via USB. I haven't had an optical drive in years and I don't miss them. A full tower will need a full fan to keep it cool. The tiny desktops are more than capable. They won't clutter your desktop or have a footprint beneath your desk. And the parts inside are chosen to run with low power requirements saving you the need for a fan. If quiet operation is a priority, you may want to reconsider a small form factor/tiny desktop.
That's just what he wants, couldn't tell you why except that he wants a bigger hard drive (2 TB) and a CD/DVD burner. He has thought about laptops but desk isn't big enough for it. I will definitely pass along the fact that a smaller desktop might eliminate the fan noise.

Edited: Just asked him and he said external hard drives are too slow.
 

daftcat75

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That's just what he wants, couldn't tell you why except that he wants a bigger hard drive (2 TB) and a CD/DVD burner. He has thought about laptops but desk isn't big enough for it. I will definitely pass along the fact that a smaller desktop might eliminate the fan noise.
When customizing it, you can ask for a lower power CPU and SSD storage. The lower the power requirements, the less the cooling needs. You'll trade some speed for lower heat (e.g. a 2.4 GHz vs a 4 GHz.) You probably won't miss it unless you run graphics-intensive games or do CPU-intensive loads like video editing. You can ask your custom shop if they can build a fan-less system. But they would have to have a motherboard, case, and components that are specifically built for fan-less operation or you'll just fry your new computer. Generally the bigger the form factor, the more fans that are required to keep air moving over the components to keep them cool. Otherwise, you'll have an oven within your tower case. That's not to say that you can't build a tower with quiet fans. That's just out of my experience. I have either had a noisy tower/desktop and never minded the noise (or ran it headless in another room as a server), or I primarily use laptops, usually the one work has issued to me. But over the lockdown, I had some time between jobs to pick up a few of those tiny desktops and run server loads (containers and virtual machines) to learn new skills while I was waiting for the next job to onboard me. Those tiny desktops are more than capable if you're willing to externalize your peripherals.
 

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Back in the last century when I worked....My advice was always buy twice as much RAM than you ever thought you would use and twice to 3 times the amount of RAM. I can understand a full sized tower. They are easier to get you hands into.
j
 

daftcat75

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That's just what he wants, couldn't tell you why except that he wants a bigger hard drive (2 TB) and a CD/DVD burner. He has thought about laptops but desk isn't big enough for it. I will definitely pass along the fact that a smaller desktop might eliminate the fan noise.

Edited: Just asked him and he said external hard drives are too slow.
You can get the tiny with a 1 TB SSD. If you need more than 1 TB, you'll probably need a different form factor. As I've been saying, the main advantage of a tiny is that they are built for fanless operation. But if you need internal peripherals--which will increase the power drawn, the heat generated, and cooling requirements--then the tiny is not the right form factor.
 
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misty8723

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When customizing it, you can ask for a lower power CPU and SSD storage. The lower the power requirements, the less the cooling needs. You'll trade some speed for lower heat (e.g. a 2.4 GHz vs a 4 GHz.) You probably won't miss it unless you run graphics-intensive games or do CPU-intensive loads like video editing. You can ask your custom shop if they can build a fan-less system. But they would have to have a motherboard, case, and components that are specifically built for fan-less operation or you'll just fry your new computer. Generally the bigger the form factor, the more fans that are required to keep air moving over the components to keep them cool. Otherwise, you'll have an oven within your tower case. That's not to say that you can't build a tower with quiet fans. That's just out of my experience. I have either had a noisy tower/desktop and never minded the noise (or ran it headless in another room as a server), or I primarily use laptops, usually the one work has issued to me. But over the lockdown, I had some time between jobs to pick up a few of those tiny desktops and run server loads (containers and virtual machines) to learn new skills while I was waiting for the next job to onboard me. Those tiny desktops are more than capable if you're willing to externalize your peripherals.
We've had a lot of full size towers over the years that didn't have noisy fans. I have an older XPS that's pretty quiet and his is a 10 year old Inspiron that's very quite. None of them every got fried. He doesn't want a lot of peripherals and not enough room on his desk for a lot of stuff anyway. Tower sits next to the desk. My setup at home for my job is a laptop hooked to two monitors and keyboard and it works great, but I'm not an engineer, and my work is saved to the cloud so I don't need a huge disk drive. I do thank you for the advice. I had always wondered how good those little ones were.
 
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misty8723

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Back in the last century when I worked....My advice was always buy twice as much RAM than you ever thought you would use and twice to 3 times the amount of RAM. I can understand a full sized tower. They are easier to get you hands into.
j
Yeah and make sure memory is expandable.
 

vyger

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You can look at cases on newegg, here is an interesting one:

There are a lot more options. Here is a search for desktop cases and midsize.

I have been using AMD processors. I really like them as opposed to Intel. The new one they have is called Risen.
If you have one built you can get a RAID array. That is when you use 2 hard drives and you mirror them so the computer uses both together. The read speeds can be twice as fast that way and if a drive fails it is automatically backed up because the 2 drives are identical. It was more important when the drives were mechanical but even the new ones fail.
Anyway, the cost of the components will only be a little more than what a manufactured equivalent will be unless you go for the high end stuff. The big cost will be the assembly unless you do it yourself. The Windows 7 might be a problem since the new hardware will be designed for Win 10. All the chip drivers will come with Win 10 and they may not bother to make Win 7 drivers.
 

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In the past there were many different types of heat sinks available to provide additional cooling. One design that I thought was clever was one that attached to the chip requiring supplemental cooling. It contained a fluid that the heat would vaporize. Then the vapor would travel to the cooling fins of the heat sink, then condense and trickle back to the bottom of the heatsinkto repeat the process. Then you could also include an additional fan to provide air flow over the fins. But that was over 20 years past.
 

vyger

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In the past there were many different types of heat sinks available to provide additional cooling. One design that I thought was clever was one that attached to the chip requiring supplemental cooling. It contained a fluid that the heat would vaporize. Then the vapor would travel to the cooling fins of the heat sink, then condense and trickle back to the bottom of the heatsinkto repeat the process. Then you could also include an additional fan to provide air flow over the fins. But that was over 20 years past.
Heat pipes, they still use them. They are used inside notebooks also.
 
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misty8723

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Heat pipes, they still use them. They are used inside notebooks also.
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Thank you for the links. We are willing
I bought a Dell XPS desktop back in 2018. It's quiet. I don't really notice it.
Which model did you buy? I have an XPS I bought in 2013 which is completely quiet. The designs have changed, I think, and it's the case design that's causing the issue. But I don't know when the problem started with Dell, but it seems to be widespread based on all the complaints. There is even a YouTube video where you can hear the noise and it's loud.
 
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