Clostridium Perfringens positive for both my indoor cats

[Lakshan]

Hello,
I have had a long battle in fixing the clostridium issue in my cats. so In December my cats were exposed to mold in the windows and they likely ingested it and that is when the diarrhea started. My cats have been on the same diet for a couple of years now, Crackers on RC gastro RX food and Bindi on Different brands of Urinary care RX food and wet food was grain free belongingg to brands like WholeHearted and Sheba and some Merrick grain free dry food (20% RX food and 80% better food) . We also moved from Indiana to California in August and we drove with them, so I understand all the stress they had. So initially when I took both my cats to the vet, I was not aware of black mold on the windows where they hanged out. The vet suspected Giardia and started both of them on Metronidazole and after two weeks they had loose stools again immediately after eating food(here they were on RC gastro RX and Hills I/D wet), I dropped Crackers stool for the PCR panel and it came positive for Clos. P type A >750. So we started on Metronidazole again for 14 days and in a week, Thank you for this site I started S. Boulardii and Psyllium husk midway with metronidazole, they started to have loose stools immediately eating RC dry food and this time the PCR came positive for >2188.

So the vet suspected metronidazole resistant Clostridium. P and started Clavamox this time. I gave them both Pet Ultimates probiotics multistrain alongside S. boulardii and psyllium husk and Fully changed to Hills dry and wet RX food. They have finished their clavamox and its day 1 today without clavamox, I am so anxious as to what will be the outcome, because my poor babies are tired taking so much medicines. I am honestly not a fan of ingredients in the RX food. Royal Canin has Chicken-byproduct as the first ingredient and so much of gluten.

Thank god for this site which helped me add the fiber and probiotics to their diet. Has anyone had any experience with Clostridium being so difficult? This is our first experience and I would love it if anyone shared their experience. I am keeping my fingers crossed for the PCR to come back negative this time.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Are you using S. Boulardi with MOS vs just plain S. Boulardi? I ask because we have a cat also diagnosed with Clostridium Perfengens in November and treated it using MOS and switching to the highest fiber food I could find and NO antibiotics, and his diarrhea cleared up really quickly. Our other cat never had any issues. I have not gotten an updated PCR done yet to see if he's clear of the Clostridium, but there aren't any signs of it. Oh, and our Vet wanted us to use Tylosin as the antibiotic of choice (vs Metro or Clavamox), but I wanted to try to clear it up naturally first, since I'd read other threads where people had done so.

Fingers crossed that your babies are now negative

 

[Jabzilla]

Hey there,
I'm sorry you're having to deal with C Perf. It's very challenging to get rid of. Am I reading your post correctly though, that after eating the RC food they had diarrhea again and the amount of C Perf increased significantly? If that's the case, I would stop feeding that food. If you still want to feed RC, then at least get a different bag as it sounds like that particular bag could be contaminated w/ the C Perf. I also say this because Clostridium overgrowths tend to come from food, as I've never heard of it being caused from eating mold. EDIT: I just saw that you've already switched their food, good.

One of my cats had a C Perf w/ type A alpha toxin overgrowth as well last year. Cosmos got it from eating a contaminated piece of pork. He was also given Metro which didn't do anything. He was also given Tylosin and then later Marbofloxacin for suspected granulomatous colitis. The latter of which, he was on for 7 months. Cosmos had a microbiome test in November and it showed he finally had a low acceptable amount of C Perf in his gut. I dont know if the Tylosin or the Marbofloxacin did it, or if it was the fact that he had also been getting a capsule of S Boulardii twice a day during all of that time as well. But either way, from what I've seen Metro doesn't work against C Perf.

If you dont want to put your cats on various rounds of different antibiotics in the hopes of one working, you could always try using the Animal Biome Gut Restore pills. Those work directly in the gut and restore a healthy balance to the cat's microbiome. It would also be worth talking to someone at Animal Biome about your cat's situation with C Perf as they should have info for you that will help w/o wiping out the rest of your cat's healthy bacteria. KittyBiome™ Gut Restore Supplement – AnimalBiome

 

[Lakshan]

Are you using S. Boulardi with MOS vs just plain S. Boulardi? I ask because we have a cat also diagnosed with Clostridium Perfengens in November and treated it using MOS and switching to the highest fiber food I could find and NO antibiotics, and his diarrhea cleared up really quickly. Our other cat never had any issues. I have not gotten an updated PCR done yet to see if he's clear of the Clostridium, but there aren't any signs of it. Oh, and our Vet wanted us to use Tylosin as the antibiotic of choice (vs Metro or Clavamox), but I wanted to try to clear it up naturally first, since I'd read other threads where people had done so.

Fingers crossed that your babies are now negative

Hi,

Thank you for your prompt and quick reply. I use the jarrow formulas S. boulardii with MOS. I add pysillium husk as prebiotic fiber (1tsp per meal, which is 1 tsp twice a day for both the kitties).I looked at highest fiber food, basically they had pumpkin and psyllium husk as prebiotics so I prefer adding it myself over giving them another prescription food. I have to now wait for one full week to get PCR on both of them to see the Clostridium values. I am praying the values are better. I saw changes in their poop slowly with clavamox rather than metro (it was instant which looked fishy because it reduced the inflammation but never killed the Clostridium, I feel).

 

[Lakshan]

Hey there,
I'm sorry you're having to deal with C Perf. It's very challenging to get rid of. Am I reading your post correctly though, that after eating the RC food they had diarrhea again and the amount of C Perf increased significantly? If that's the case, I would stop feeding that food. If you still want to feed RC, then at least get a different bag as it sounds like that particular bag could be contaminated w/ the C Perf. I also say this because Clostridium overgrowths tend to come from food, as I've never heard of it being caused from eating mold. EDIT: I just saw that you've already switched their food, good.

One of my cats had a C Perf w/ type A alpha toxin overgrowth as well last year. Cosmos got it from eating a contaminated piece of pork. He was also given Metro which didn't do anything. He was also given Tylosin and then later Marbofloxacin for suspected granulomatous colitis. The latter of which, he was on for 7 months. Cosmos had a microbiome test in November and it showed he finally had a low acceptable amount of C Perf in his gut. I dont know if the Tylosin or the Marbofloxacin did it, or if it was the fact that he had also been getting a capsule of S Boulardii twice a day during all of that time as well. But either way, from what I've seen Metro doesn't work against C Perf.

If you dont want to put your cats on various rounds of different antibiotics in the hopes of one working, you could always try using the Animal Biome Gut Restore pills. Those work directly in the gut and restore a healthy balance to the cat's microbiome. It would also be worth talking to someone at Animal Biome about your cat's situation with C Perf as they should have info for you that will help w/o wiping out the rest of your cat's healthy bacteria. KittyBiome™ Gut Restore Supplement – AnimalBiome

Yes, It was weird that the perf values were even higher after only RC dry food, which made me change the food to Hills I/d care. My cats do not eat anything other than what I give them, so whatever gave them diarrhea came from their food or the mold. Makes sense that I gave them both RC after their first dose of metro and the values were higher. Did you give your cats any prebiotics?

I did look at Animal Biome Gut restore pills last month, I wanted to ask the vet about it, but he sounds so arrogant he tells, remember you are trying it all on your own and I am not recommending it, So I am scared to try anything but I took things into my own hands and gave them S. BOulardii anyway. Thank you for sharing the Animal Biome link, I will reach out to them to see if they have anything else that can help me. Now that I am monitoring them, I am so anxious I hope it's gone.

 

[daftcat75]

I have no idea why they throw antibiotics (anti-bacterial drugs) against viral infections. You can probably stop that nonsense and just do the s. boulardii. It can take a month or two of at least twice daily dosing to mop all that up. Use their poop rather than the PCR to determine when you are done. If they are still having loose stools, keep giving them s. boulardii.

 

[stephanietx]

If you do not feel like your vet is kind, caring, or listening to you and your concerns or ideas, then you need to find a new vet. I bring up things to my vet all the time and she's either never heard of it or will give me the pros and cons of it.

To help with diarrhea, you can try slippery elm bark syrup. You can pick up slippery elm bard powder (not capsules) at the health food store or online at Amazon. Bring 1/2 cup water to a boil. Remove from heat and whisk in 1 teaspoon of SEB powder until it's the consistency of a raw egg white, about 1-2 minutes. Allow to cool. Store in fridge for 7 days. Give 1/4 teaspoon mixed in with wet food twice a day. Once poops have firmed up, back off to 1/4 t once a day.

 

[daftcat75]

If you try slippery elm bark, you'll want to give it separated by at least a couple hours from any other medicine or supplement including s. boulardii. That's because the SEB creates a barrier that can inhibit absorption of medicines/supplements. I suppose this barrier is also inhibiting the c. perf from attacking the gut wall too. I would still like to see you continue with the s. boulardii at least twice a day for at least a month. It took about two months for my Krista to clear her c. perf infection. S. boulardii and MOS have a similar structure to the gut wall. They can act like a decoy gut binding the c. perf and flushing it out the backdoor with their poop. But to be effective, you need to achieve a steady state where s. boulardii is always present in their gut (twice a day dosing at a minimum.) S. boulardii doesn't colonize the gut like other probiotics. You will have to keep giving it for it to remain effective. If for some reason you have to stop it, it takes a few days for the gut to clear it all.

 

[Lakshan]

If you do not feel like your vet is kind, caring, or listening to you and your concerns or ideas, then you need to find a new vet. I bring up things to my vet all the time and she's either never heard of it or will give me the pros and cons of it.

To help with diarrhea, you can try slippery elm bark syrup. You can pick up slippery elm bard powder (not capsules) at the health food store or online at Amazon. Bring 1/2 cup water to a boil. Remove from heat and whisk in 1 teaspoon of SEB powder until it's the consistency of a raw egg white, about 1-2 minutes. Allow to cool. Store in fridge for 7 days. Give 1/4 teaspoon mixed in with wet food twice a day. Once poops have firmed up, back off to 1/4 t once a day.

I will order Slippery Elm powder on Amazon. It's a new thing for me to try but thank you so much for the recipe! I will start once it's here. They finished their Clavamox 5 days ago, So in the noon they get their Hills I/d care food with 1 scoop of multistrain probiotics and 1 TSP psyllium husk and dinner has S, boulardii with 1 TSP psyllium husk and their poop holds shape but is still on the softer side but definitely not stinky. Does their poop ever get normal after the C. perf? I suppose SEB powder will help heal their gut wall and things look better. ATleast they hold food for the whole day and do not run to the litter box immediately to poop. These couple of months have been a rollercoaster figuring out things and Thank you so much for sharing your suggestions.

 

[Lakshan]

If you try slippery elm bark, you'll want to give it separated by at least a couple hours from any other medicine or supplement including s. boulardii. That's because the SEB creates a barrier that can inhibit absorption of medicines/supplements. I suppose this barrier is also inhibiting the c. perf from attacking the gut wall too. I would still like to see you continue with the s. boulardii at least twice a day for at least a month. It took about two months for my Krista to clear her c. perf infection. S. boulardii and MOS have a similar structure to the gut wall. They can act like a decoy gut binding the c. perf and flushing it out the backdoor with their poop. But to be effective, you need to achieve a steady state where s. boulardii is always present in their gut (twice a day dosing at a minimum.) S. boulardii doesn't colonize the gut like other probiotics. You will have to keep giving it for it to remain effective. If for some reason you have to stop it, it takes a few days for the gut to clear it all.

I do not intend to stop the S. Boulardii + MOS at all. I will keep a maintenance dose once I see things getting better. Before the C. perf , They hardly got food with grain as a snack in the evening and rest of their food has always been a good quality Grain-Free food wet and dry. The prescription diet itself has so many gluten grains and fillers, it makes me anxious. I wonder why a RX food is so pricey for the ingredients they use. Anyway they are post antibiotic phase now and the actual result shows up a week after the last dose of antibiotic. I hope they have gotten better. It's so sad for me to see them let out a farty loose poop and keep licking their butt.

 

[daftcat75]

Their poop will go back to normal once the infection has cleared. It sounded like they are only getting SB once a day. Try to give it twice a day to be truly effective.

Krista and I were both so impressed with her first solid poop in months that she stopped to give it a second look and I took a picture. Then I censored it for the Internet. Because only me and she needed to see that.

 

[Lakshan]

Their poop will go back to normal once the infection has cleared. It sounded like they are only getting SB once a day. Try to give it twice a day to be truly effective.

Krista and I were both so impressed with her first solid poop in months that she stopped to give it a second look and I took a picture. Then I censored it for the Internet. Because only me and she needed to see that.
View attachment 469629

Yes, I will give the SB twice from today. This is the cutest picture I have seen hahaha. Krista is so impressed at what she passed after a couple of months.

 

[Lakshan]

Their poop will go back to normal once the infection has cleared. It sounded like they are only getting SB once a day. Try to give it twice a day to be truly effective.

Krista and I were both so impressed with her first solid poop in months that she stopped to give it a second look and I took a picture. Then I censored it for the Internet. Because only me and she needed to see that.
View attachment 469629

Right now one capsule is 5 billion CFU of Boulardii. if I give X2, they will be getting 2 capsules per days a total of 10 Billion. Is it possible that it will be too much already? How much was the dosing that you gave Krista. Because they were already getting the multistrain probiotic as well, I held off on just 1 capsule of Boulardii per day at dinner. They both love bourlardii so much they clean their bowls.

 

[daftcat75]

Half a capsule twice a day should be sufficient. Krista loved SB. That made it easy. Because SB gets tacky like dough when wet, you can make little SB balls for snacks if you think they might like that. You can’t really give too much. I mean you can. You’ll know when you gave too much because it will swing the other way and make their stools too hard and make them constipated. But I think 1 capsule each split over two servings is not too much.

 

[Lakshan]

Half a capsule twice a day should be sufficient. Krista loved SB. That made it easy. Because SB gets tacky like dough when wet, you can make little SB balls for snacks if you think they might like that. You can’t really give too much. I mean you can. You’ll know when you gave too much because it will swing the other way and make their stools too hard and make them constipated. But I think 1 capsule each split over two servings is not too much.

What food did you give Krista when she was dealing with C. perf? My younger cat Bindi used the litter box twice today and she pooped softer stool but smelled deadly. I think it's dry food sensitivity related rather than something she ate other than that. We recently moved to California and it's the same brand of food. I don't know if the state has a different recipe for their food and it did not do good with their stomachs.

 

[daftcat75]

What food did you give Krista when she was dealing with C. perf? My younger cat Bindi used the litter box twice today and she pooped softer stool but smelled deadly. I think it's dry food sensitivity related rather than something she ate other than that. We recently moved to California and it's the same brand of food. I don't know if the state has a different recipe for their food and it did not do good with their stomachs.

Krista also had IBD and tooth resorption. At separate times she had pancreatitis and when she had an inpatient stay for elevated liver enzymes, I took to calling her Hat Trick (a friendlier term for triaditis.) I believe at this time she was eating Rawz pate in either the turkey or rabbit flavor. And not much else. It was a delicate balance I was trying to strike all the time.

 

[Lakshan]

Are you using S. Boulardi with MOS vs just plain S. Boulardi? I ask because we have a cat also diagnosed with Clostridium Perfengens in November and treated it using MOS and switching to the highest fiber food I could find and NO antibiotics, and his diarrhea cleared up really quickly. Our other cat never had any issues. I have not gotten an updated PCR done yet to see if he's clear of the Clostridium, but there aren't any signs of it. Oh, and our Vet wanted us to use Tylosin as the antibiotic of choice (vs Metro or Clavamox), but I wanted to try to clear it up naturally first, since I'd read other threads where people had done so.

Fingers crossed that your babies are now negative

What food were you feeding your cat when he has C. perf? I have a feeling the prescription food is making things worse because of all the gluten and corn meal and byproducts in them.

 

[Lakshan]

Hey there,
I'm sorry you're having to deal with C Perf. It's very challenging to get rid of. Am I reading your post correctly though, that after eating the RC food they had diarrhea again and the amount of C Perf increased significantly? If that's the case, I would stop feeding that food. If you still want to feed RC, then at least get a different bag as it sounds like that particular bag could be contaminated w/ the C Perf. I also say this because Clostridium overgrowths tend to come from food, as I've never heard of it being caused from eating mold. EDIT: I just saw that you've already switched their food, good.

One of my cats had a C Perf w/ type A alpha toxin overgrowth as well last year. Cosmos got it from eating a contaminated piece of pork. He was also given Metro which didn't do anything. He was also given Tylosin and then later Marbofloxacin for suspected granulomatous colitis. The latter of which, he was on for 7 months. Cosmos had a microbiome test in November and it showed he finally had a low acceptable amount of C Perf in his gut. I dont know if the Tylosin or the Marbofloxacin did it, or if it was the fact that he had also been getting a capsule of S Boulardii twice a day during all of that time as well. But either way, from what I've seen Metro doesn't work against C Perf.

If you dont want to put your cats on various rounds of different antibiotics in the hopes of one working, you could always try using the Animal Biome Gut Restore pills. Those work directly in the gut and restore a healthy balance to the cat's microbiome. It would also be worth talking to someone at Animal Biome about your cat's situation with C Perf as they should have info for you that will help w/o wiping out the rest of your cat's healthy bacteria. KittyBiome™ Gut Restore Supplement – AnimalBiome

What were you feeding your cat while he was recovering from the C. perf? I have given my younger cats poop for a PCR to see the values because it was never run for her. and she is hungry almost all the time while she was on Clavamox, I am wondering if its because the RX food is highly digestible.

 

[Jabzilla]

My cat continued eating his raw food. His C Perf didn’t cause diarrhea and instead was causing blood on his bottom after pooping from the colitis that it caused. He wasn’t able to take the Jarrow S Boulardii with MOS since it contains tapioca starch. Instead, he got Renew S Boulardii twice a day which ended up being 20 Billion CFU. Cosmos was later put on Adored Beast Gut Soothe (along with the S Boulardii), which I highly recommend. The only food change that I made was to stop buying pork from the nearby grocery store. He was already getting psyllium husk added to his food prior.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

My guy that got Clostridium was eating quite a wide variety of commercial freeze dried foods, so I couldn't really narrow it down to any particular one that might have caused it. Our Vet actually told us that since there is always some clostridium Perfengens in the gut (or it can be there for years before causing issues), even stress can cause it to get out of balance and take over, and we had recently had company for a couple of weeks that could have brought it on. I will never know, just know that my guy was already not really excited to eat any of his food, so I am now just feeding him a variety of canned and now some dry foods also. NOT prescription foods though.