Clear Up An Argument For Me.

[dogperson2cats]

Ok as some of you may know, I have two cats. One of which is a now elderly feral that I raised from a kitten.

An acquaintance of mine is telling me that the age I got him at, approximately 6/7 weeks, is too early to make a cat go feral even with little to no human contact. (They claim they know this because they have a feral rescue they raised from a kitten from roughly 10 weeks who is now 20 or so.) But, my girlfriend, who has two rescues of her own and who helps out specifically with the ferals when she can, says she was told by the shelter that 6 weeks is usually when the kitten starts to go feral and it just gets worse from their if the human interaction is still little to none.

We have argued about this quite a bit now and I just want to put it to rest. Also, I don't know if this makes a difference but mine was taken (legit stolen) from a hoarding/breeding situation where he was thrown from a balcony almost daily by a very violent toddler; the only human interaction he likely got. So if he isn't feral, could mental issues and PTSD be the cause of his violent temperament?

Thanks it advance!

 

[Cat_mediator]

Let's just put it this way; if a cat is not properly socialised with humans between the age of 2 weeks to 7 weeks of age, He can almost never become friendly with humans. It is just a fact according to many feline behaviorists. Of course, other friendly human contact after that sensitive period would help, but it won't be as effective as the sensitive period, especially he had very bad experience with human (the toddler). I am sorry for him and for you. It would be better to keep him indoor - outdoor cat.

 

[maggiedemi]

I have 2 former feral cats from the woods, no human contact before me. Demi was a baby, probably 5 or 6 weeks old. He was tiny, but he was able to eat pate and kitten chow. He was definitely feral, hissing and clawing. He's still semi-feral and I don't think that will ever change. He's terrified of all strangers. He loves to be petted and brushed now, no longer hisses, but he still scratches us. My second feral, Maggie showed up when she was in her first heat, probably 6 months old. When she snapped out of heat she was mean, much meaner than Demi. She doesn't like to be petted much and she still hisses and scratches people. So it does make a difference how early you socialize them. Somebody more experienced might have been able to socialize Demi so that he was no longer feral, since he was so young, but I tried my best.

 

[dogperson2cats]

Let's just put it this way; if a cat is not properly socialised with humans between the age of 2 weeks to 7 weeks of age, He can almost never become friendly with humans. It is just a fact according to many feline behaviorists. Of course, other friendly human contact after that sensitive period would help, but it won't be as effective as the sensitive period, especially he had very bad experience with human (the toddler). I am sorry for him and for you. It would be better to keep him indoor - outdoor cat.

He comes and goes as he pleases though we're keeping him inside a lot more now that he's 14 and seems to be getting arthritis. (Not that he's complaining as he's parked in front of the fire 24/7.) Also he cannot really use his claws and lost his teeth. (Vet has no clue why because he's otherwise healthy.) So at this point, he goes out to pee and then comes back in. (Don't suggest litter boxes, we tried but he refused as there's nowhere we can put it where our other cat won't use it.)

Funny you should mention he'd likely not be friendly with people. Aside from children and as long as you never pick him up, once he's used to you (which takes forever in some cases) he enjoys a petting. (Though my dad can pick him up and even groom him no fuss.)

He's only started coming around for me in the last couple years so I appreciate you being sorry for me. (Nearly lost an eye because of him. Thankfully I healed normally.)

Well you verified that he is in fact feral. Thank you.

 

[dogperson2cats]

I have 2 former feral cats from the woods, no human contact before me. Demi was a baby, probably 5 or 6 weeks old. He was tiny, but he was able to eat pate and kitten chow. He was definitely feral, hissing and clawing. He's still semi-feral and I don't think that will ever change. He's terrified of all strangers. He loves to be petted and brushed now, no longer hisses, but he still scratches us. My second feral, Maggie showed up when she was in her first heat, probably 6 months old. When she snapped out of heat she was mean, much meaner than Demi. She doesn't like to be petted much and she still hisses and scratches people. So it does make a difference how early you socialize them. Somebody more experienced might have been able to socialize Demi so that he was no longer feral, since he was so young, but I tried my best.

Sounds like my cousins cats, honestly. They were dumped in the woods behind her house and her female cat found them and nursed them. (They were old enough to where they should have been eating food but they were starving so...motherly instincts?) One seemed to calm down and was a very nice house cat for the most part. The other was always wild and not exactly mean but not nice, either. Unfortunately, she loved chicken and when a new neighbor moved in had free roaming chickens...

Not going into detail but she was found dead and the neighbor admitted he did it.

 

[Kieka]

I think individual temperament and situations can affect when a cat would be considered feral. Given that your specific cat had human interactions, albeit negative, I would personally drift more towards abused, PTSD or brain damage. Feral tends to refer to cats that had no human interaction prior in the formative period and aren't socialized to humans good or bad.

My girl also was from a hoarding situation but her litter never saw humans from closer than across the yard and their mom was terrified of humans. She also has retained much of those early tendencies and doesn't do well with people outside my immediate family.

 

[dogperson2cats]

I think individual temperament and situations can affect when a cat would be considered feral. Given that your specific cat had human interactions, albeit negative, I would personally drift more towards abused, PTSD or brain damage. Feral tends to refer to cats that had no human interaction prior in the formative period and aren't socialized to humans good or bad.

My girl also was from a hoarding situation but her litter never saw humans from closer than across the yard and their mom was terrified of humans. She also has retained much of those early tendencies and doesn't do well with people outside my immediate family.

I am ashamed to say that I am related to the hoarders I stole him from. Even worse is that all their animals are rescues from shelters or bought from pet stores that only sell shelter pets. There should be screenings for this but apparently there's not. Moving on before I get depressed.

Convincing them to trust you and eventually getting any kind of affection is the best, though, isn't it? Mine doesn't like many people. Tolerates quite a few but he doesn't like them. My father and grandmother are the only two we can say he likes though he sleeps with me quite often. (But I cannot pick him up or really cuddle into him much.)

 

[aliceneko]

I have two semi-feral kittens who are four months and were rescued by the local shelter when they were a month or so younger, so past the typical socialisation process. They were incredibly shy when we first got them, but they are now spending more time out of their cage than in, and they actually have turned into lap cats over the past few days. Fudge still likes to have his own company but Toffee really likes spending his time with humans. I couldn't pick them up or cuddle them initially, but they are quite partial to a lap now and I can just about hold Toffee, as of today.

 

[Kieka]

I am ashamed to say that I am related to the hoarders I stole him from. Even worse is that all their animals are rescues from shelters or bought from pet stores that only sell shelter pets. There should be screenings for this but apparently there's not. Moving on before I get depressed.

Convincing them to trust you and eventually getting any kind of affection is the best, though, isn't it? Mine doesn't like many people. Tolerates quite a few but he doesn't like them. My father and grandmother are the only two we can say he likes though he sleeps with me quite often. (But I cannot pick him up or really cuddle into him much.)

My girl doesn't let anyone pick her up, the whole feeling comfortable with four feet off the ground is very much a learned as kitten thing. But are other signs that they trust you. Sleeping with you is trusting you when he is most venerable. Cats can be funny in really showing what we recognize as emotion. Given the toddler element it isn't surprising that yours can't be picked up even though he was handled some.

 

[Willowy]

Being feral will bring different behavior challenges than being abused. Ferals grew up with no human contact. It sound like your cat did have human contact, but it was a bad experience. That's what usually causes cats to be mean. Ferals aren't mean; they're just scared.

In my experience, if you get feral kittens before 8 weeks, they can be tamed fully. If they're under 12 weeks you can usually get them to be reasonably tame, but they'll be timid. After that, a true feral may make friends with a particular human, but they'll always be feral.

Cats who are abused or have a traumatic experience can turn mean at any age.

 

[Brian007]

This is an article on socialisation of kittens (between the age of 2 and 7 weeks old) published by the Cats Protection Organisation/League, which is the leading UK cat welfare/rescue organisation:

http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/The_Cat_Mag_extracts/Kitten_socialisation.pdf

That your boy has no teeth is actually no bad thing, as tooth decay is one of the major factors in general cat ill health.

You might want to give him a treat reward whenever he does something remotely friendly towards you. Treats are very welcome to cats. And you could also offer him something like catnip, chamomile, valerian, or silvervine matatabi, which are herbs that cats like and that cats find calming and 'feel-good'.

What are your two cats called?

 

[MoochNNoodles]

I think individual temperament and situations can affect when a cat would be considered feral.

I thought this was a good explanation: Neighborhood Cats | How to TNR | What is a Feral Cat?

 

[msaimee]

I successfully domesticated two completely feral kittens when I trapped them at age 4 months and 5-6 months respectively. They are both very affectionate and sociable with me and comfortable around my friends and can be handled during vet visits. My third feral was about 10 months old when I took her in and she's content to live indoors with me but doesn't like being petted. However, she is a special needs kitty who was shot when she was little, the bullet is still in her pelvis and she has a crooked leg--so she was significantly traumatized and will always be shy. I dislike generalizations about the age at which feral cats can be socialized because it depends on the cat and on the person doing the socialization. If I'm forced to make a generalization, I would say that kittens up to the age of one year can be completely socialized, at least with regard to their primary caregiver. Cats over the age of one year can also be socialized to live indoors only and be handled by their primary caregiver, but it takes more time and work, and sometimes an older feral can never adjust to indoor life only and needs to be allowed to live outdoors. I reject the notion that feral cats cannot be socialized after 7 weeks. That has not been true in my experience, nor in the experience of my friends who have also trapped and socialized feral cats. I feel that vets and other so-called experts who give this information to potential caregivers do a disservice to feral cats. Many of the feral cats over the age of 7 weeks can be socialized to live the life of a pampered and loved pet cat. It depends completely on the cat.

 

[Brian007]

I think there are discrepancies here as to what might be considered as "feral" and what might be more appropriately regarded as "stray".

Feral and Stray Cats—An Important Difference

 

[jcat]

I reject the notion that feral cats cannot be socialized after 7 weeks. That has not been true in my experience, nor in the experience of my friends who have also trapped and socialized feral cats. I feel that vets and other so-called experts who give this information to potential caregivers do a disservice to feral cats. Many of the feral cats over the age of 7 weeks can be socialized to live the life of a pampered and loved pet cat. It depends completely on the cat.

We've had a lot of ferals at the shelter that were tamed well after that supposed "window", but also some failures. The oldest was around 18 months when she was trapped, according to the vet. It took about a year, but she could eventually be adopted out as a pet. Her kittens were about 5 months old and were tame within a few weeks.

Our Mowgli was approximately 4 months old when he was found in a barrel practically next door to a feral colony. There were two other feral kittens of the same age, also black, hanging around outside the barrel, so it was assumed they were brothers. One brother was tamed, but the other couldn't be. Mowgli is a lap cat that lets you clip his claws, clean his ears, carry him around, etc.. He never hisses or strikes out.

An awful lot depends on the cat's character.

 

[houseofnine]

Ok as some of you may know, I have two cats. One of which is a now elderly feral that I raised from a kitten.

An acquaintance of mine is telling me that the age I got him at, approximately 6/7 weeks, is too early to make a cat go feral even with little to no human contact. (They claim they know this because they have a feral rescue they raised from a kitten from roughly 10 weeks who is now 20 or so.) But, my girlfriend, who has two rescues of her own and who helps out specifically with the ferals when she can, says she was told by the shelter that 6 weeks is usually when the kitten starts to go feral and it just gets worse from their if the human interaction is still little to none.

We have argued about this quite a bit now and I just want to put it to rest. Also, I don't know if this makes a difference but mine was taken (legit stolen) from a hoarding/breeding situation where he was thrown from a balcony almost daily by a very violent toddler; the only human interaction he likely got. So if he isn't feral, could mental issues and PTSD be the cause of his violent temperament?

Thanks it advance!

Hi! I'll try to keep this post short as possible (ha). We live in suburban CT and have TWELVE indoor cats. We have 4 totally domestic residents. Then Hanna showed up with her 4 kittens July 2013. We'd seen this cat off and on for 2-3 years--assumed she was a neighbor's cat. With help, everyone was trapped. Kits were 4 wks old..Hanna we guessed was 3 years old. Kittens warmed up to us right away--we kept them with mom til they were weaned. She was cool about our holding them, and babies were friendly from Day One. Kept everybody--massive Foster Fail. =)
Hanna was a tough one..never mean, but just scared. Would hiss or swat if we tried to pet her. The vet dismissed her as totally feral. We ignored them and kept her indoors. She got used to it and she was able to see her babies grow up. It took 2 years, but my husband can pet her--I can't, but that's okay. She is a really sweet cat and gets along fine with everyone (I've heard that is true of ferals--not so great with people, but usually fine with other cats as long as all are neutered).
Next batch of cats June 2017: small calico Marlee showed up with 3 kittens and her baby daddy. (Daddy has Highlander "lynx" ears, and one kitten does too--see my avatar). These kittens were 8-10 weeks old. Initially we brought everyone in except feral Daddy--who got fixed & now lives indoor-outdoor at rescue lady's house since we've had a coyote visitor. The kittens were kinda hissy initially, but once weaned/separated from mom, they were friendly within a couple of days. Mama got spayed. Kept her separate in a bedroom for a while but she wanted to see what was going on in the household..so we let her out of the room and she's been really playful and fun with the group. Can pet her if careful. Two kits went to a good friend of mine.
Latest challenge is feral female #3--just captured on 1/2/18. She is scared and not too happy, but hasn't tried to kill us yet. It will be slow going.
I guess my point is that they are all different and their social development can vary based on personality and how they were raised--when taken from mom, etc.
You've done a great thing so three cheers!

 

[msaimee]

Brian007, I know the difference between a feral and a stray. I have been rescuing and socializing cats for nearly 20 years. It took me 6 months to be able to pet and handle the last little feral cat who was five to six months old. It was a very long process involving me and my four resident cats. It took hours a day of sitting on the floor and speaking softly to her, trying to engage her in play, and playing with my other cats in her presence. She bonded with my other cats long before she trusted me. When I first brought her home from the vet, I couldn't approach her at all. But now she is completely domesticated, a real lap cat. I am part of a local network of people who work with feral cats and who have socialized many cats who were older kittens and young adults. I should add that to me, successfully socializing a feral cat does not mean the cat will necessarily become an affectionate cat. My oldest feral cat still does not want me to touch her, however I'm able to handle her when I need to groom her or get her to a vet. She spends much of her time under the bed and in her cat tree and does not socialize much with my other cats. That is the feral cat I rescued who had been shot and has a bullet lodged in her pelvis. But I absolutely consider her a successfully socialized feral cat because she is very content living indoors, and has never expressed a desire to return to her former life Outdoors. She enjoys playing with a wand toy with me, and loves having access to food 24/7. So a lot depends on how one define success. It takes a lot of time, patience, and dedication, something which many people don't have. The people who post on this site are very special people, and I hope I can encourage them in their friendships with feral cats.

I will post a "before" and after of my little feral "Cupcake"

 

[Brian007]

msaimee I just thought I'd share it for the thread starter and not because of anything whatsoever that anyone else had posted.

 

[msaimee]

That's cool , I just wanted to encourage people that it is possible to socialize not only Strays, but ferals who are older than what is commonly believed to be the cut-off for socialization. And I had to go back and add a before-and-after photo of my little feral cupcake. I love her so much!

 

[Brian007]

msaimee , I know. I too have been rescuing cats my whole life.

She certainly is a very beautiful cupcake. Thanks for adding photos of her, please give her a wee tickle from me.