CKD & Renal-K Supplement?

[Mac and Cats]

Hi,

I'm going to apologize in advance if this is a long winded post. I did try to look this up via the search, but didn't quite find the answer I was looking for. Here's the situation: We took our sweet old lady (13 or 14), Molly, in for her monthly Solensia injection (her 3rd one) on Saturday. They also ran her T4 and renal values. She had the "precursor" for CKD and so they told me to keep an eye on it and try to feed her renal foods. We hadn't switched her to renal food because I was trying to get her to eat more wet food and less dry in hopes that this would help.

She was my parents' cat and when they had her they only fed her dry food. When she came to live with us about 7 years ago, we did give her wet as an option and she would eat some, but she does prefer the dry. I have gradually reduced her dry food over a very long time and now I'm giving her about half to one table spoon of Royal Canin Renal dry food per day and she is eating non-renal wet food for the rest. Anyway, at the vet her values tested as BUN 43, CRE 1.8 PHOS 5. Her values are slightly higher than her last visit from a couple months ago, which were BUN 39, CRE 1.6, PHOS 5.3. The vet said we really need to focus on switching her over completely to renal food. So, I am working towards that. I do have a handful of the Weruva Wx Phos Focus on hand and she sort of eats them, but not so much that I would bank on her eating them consistently.

We had a past (utterly loved to bits) kitty on Royal Canin renal wet food for about 6 or 7 years and he never complained and just ate what we gave him. I did not realize how lucky we were with this. Molly will eat the Royal Canin renal food when it is offered to her. Now I'm kicking myself for donating like 8 cases of this stuff when our last CKD cat passed last year. I was trying to "use up what we had" of the lower phosphorous options because I cannot tell you how much money I have wasted over the last 2 years with of our other cat that was recently diagnosed with possible IBD (and also beginning CKD). Anyway, that is besides the point. Now it is clear that I should just try to switch her over completely to renal food. So, that's what I'm going to work towards. I know she will eat the Royal Canin Renal T and D. So, I'm going to order one case of each.

With our last CKD cat, our vet never once suggested any supplements or anything extra that we should have been giving him. We've had a lot of loss over the last 3 years (we lost 3 cats in 18 months) and I've spent so many, many, many hours researching food and individual needs for each of these cats, plus the two eldery that we still have, that I am just exhausted and feel like I'm going down an endless maze of rabbit holes, but it feels like a horror choose your own adventure and none of the outcomes are good. I get so much information that it's just overwhelming to me and I get too overwhelmed and filled with anxiety to even process most of it. Before you suggest it, I have been to Tayna's page many times over the past few years and I do refer to her website still.

So, While I have learned a lot with our last CKD cat, I still feel like I barely know anything and I just feel like a deer caught in the headlights most of the time. My apologies for this long rambling post. My main question right now is: Should I be adding the Renal K supplement to her food? Or is this some sort of specialty thing I need to wait for? I know that I did the best I could with what we had with our last CKD cat, but I still can't help but feel like I could have done more for him if I had known more. I can ask our vet about this as well, but it didn't occur to me when we were there on Saturday to ask her this. Are there any other supplements that I should consider adding to Molly's food? She already takes 2.5mg of Methamezole twice a day for a fairly recent diagnosis of hyperthyroid, 1 capsule of Gabapentin twice a day for arthritis (in addition to the Solensia injection), Proviable-DC Probiotic, plus I am currently and very slowly weening her off of Prozac. I have tried adding in omega oils or salmon oil but she isn't a fan. Thank you in advance for your help with advice and in unscrambling my brain.

 

[BellaBlue82]

First I want to say, bless your heart! Hugs to you, I'm sorry to hear the loss you've dealt with recently. I can empathize, I have lost two in the past month and it is not easy. I also know how it is to feel as though your spiraling trying to take care of kitties with medical conditions.

I would suggest seeing if the vet can check potassium levels. Not all kitties need renal K, in my experience it relates to how much they are peeing and how much potassium is being lost through the kidneys. You can overload on potassium, so that's the only reason I suggest testing before you start to administer.

The other item that I know can help is phosphorus binders. I had Nico on them for a short while which seemed to help. The reason I couldn't switch him over to a specific renal food was because he also had diabetes. So the phosphorus binders helped keep the phosphorus content in his blood stream low (whereas renal food is specifically designed with low phosphorus content.) You can see the trade off there, in case it's something you want to check with your vet about. It helps with picky CKD cats.

Good luck, I hope this helps!!

 

[Mac and Cats]

First I want to say, bless your heart! Hugs to you, I'm sorry to hear the loss you've dealt with recently. I can empathize, I have lost two in the past month and it is not easy. I also know how it is to feel as though your spiraling trying to take care of kitties with medical conditions.

I would suggest seeing if the vet can check potassium levels. Not all kitties need renal K, in my experience it relates to how much they are peeing and how much potassium is being lost through the kidneys. You can overload on potassium, so that's the only reason I suggest testing before you start to administer.

The other item that I know can help is phosphorus binders. I had Nico on them for a short while which seemed to help. The reason I couldn't switch him over to a specific renal food was because he also had diabetes. So the phosphorus binders helped keep the phosphorus content in his blood stream low (whereas renal food is specifically designed with low phosphorus content.) You can see the trade off there, in case it's something you want to check with your vet about. It helps with picky CKD cats.

Good luck, I hope this helps!!

Thank you so much. I'm so sorry for the loss of your two kitties too. It's so hard to go through. We will be taking our other cat into the vet on Friday for his own issues, so I'll see if I can ask the vet about Molly then. Someone else suggested that we should steer clear of binders until their phosphorus is much higher. I did ask our vet about them and she had never even heard of them but was like "Sure! Go ahead and start it! The lower phosphorous you can get them the better!" which didn't really instill much confidence in me. So, I'm going go to hold off on those for now. We do have a secondary vet that I may bring her to to ask my questions as well. I appreciate your input!

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi
I would talk to the second vet now, because CKD is something that needs focused attention rather than a "sure, let's do this, why not" reaction.

Weruva commercial foods especially Weruva WX are options that don't require a prescription.

 

[Mac and Cats]

Hi
I would talk to the second vet now, because CKD is something that needs focused attention rather than a "sure, let's do this, why not" reaction.

Weruva commercial foods especially Weruva WX are options that don't require a prescription.

Yeah, I have been trying to get her to eat the Weruva, but she doesn't seem very enthusiastic about them. I offered her some RC renal today and she was taking mouth fulls. I have a microchip feeder for her so I put the reanal food in that and I will leave it there until morning to see how much she has actually eaten. I'll make an appointment with our secondary vet to get their opinion also. Thank you!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I totally agree to talk to another Vet. If a Vet is not familiar with phosphorus binders, they should not be treating kidney cats, IMHO. But from the numbers you posted on her phos level, she is not yet in need of phosphorus binders, per Tanya's site. Also, as stated above, unless you know she is low on potassium, she should not be given Renal K, or Tumil K or any of type of potassium supplement. From what I've read, again on Tanya's site, Tumil K might be a better supplement to use (if ever needed), simply because the Renal K MAY have phosphorus added. Apparently that is an unknown!

Anyway, just my experience with my three kidney cats, none of them ever ate a kidney diet. They simply wouldn't eat it. And our Vet was fine with that. She said " Let them eat whatever they will eat. It's better that they eat. Period." And none of my cats were diagnosed with CKD until they were further along than yours, and they each lived another 3 years. The only thing we did was do sub-q fluids, and give Pepcid A/C and appetite stimulants as they progressed. Even with no kidney diets they never needed phos binders, never had low potassium, etc.

Please let us know what the other Vet has to say.

 

[Mac and Cats]

I totally agree to talk to another Vet. If a Vet is not familiar with phosphorus binders, they should not be treating kidney cats, IMHO. But from the numbers you posted on her phos level, she is not yet in need of phosphorus binders, per Tanya's site. Also, as stated above, unless you know she is low on potassium, she should not be given Renal K, or Tumil K or any of type of potassium supplement. From what I've read, again on Tanya's site, Tumil K might be a better supplement to use (if ever needed), simply because the Renal K MAY have phosphorus added. Apparently that is an unknown!

Anyway, just my experience with my three kidney cats, none of them ever ate a kidney diet. They simply wouldn't eat it. And our Vet was fine with that. She said " Let them eat whatever they will eat. It's better that they eat. Period." And none of my cats were diagnosed with CKD until they were further along than yours, and they each lived another 3 years. The only thing we did was do sub-q fluids, and give Pepcid A/C and appetite stimulants as they progressed. Even with no kidney diets they never needed phos binders, never had low potassium, etc.

Please let us know what the other Vet has to say.

Thank you, that helps to know. I've only had one cat before with CKD and like I said, he ate only the prescription. We will be seeing a different doctor at her Solensia injection appointment in a month. Since she is doing totally fine, I think it's ok to wait until then. I did end up ordering her a case of each of the Royal Canin D & T flavors of wet food. We had a few cans around anyway and she does eat them. I'm not sure if I can get her to eat them every single meal, but I know she will eat them at least once a day. She was also eating a few Tiki cat flavors that aren't super high in phosphorus, but aren't super low either (range is from .98%-1.27% phosphorus on a dry matter basis. Do you think it's reasonable to keep giving her those at least once a day if she also eats the renal food?

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

She was also eating a few Tiki cat flavors that aren't super high in phosphorus, but aren't super low either (range is from .98%-1.27% phosphorus on a dry matter basis. Do you think it's reasonable to keep giving her those at least once a day if she also eats the renal food?

Personally, I don't think those Tiki phos numbers are too bad. I always TRIED to look for phos less than 1%, but it didn't always work out and some of the foods my little ones ate were as high as 3% . My Vet still wasn't concerned since I was feeding a variety.

 

[Mac and Cats]

Personally, I don't think those Tiki phos numbers are too bad. I always TRIED to look for phos less than 1%, but it didn't always work out and some of the foods my little ones ate were as high as 3% . My Vet still wasn't concerned since I was feeding a variety.

Oh good. Thank you. I do try to keep the phosphorus at 1% or lower if possible (for both our older cats), but of course it doesn't always work out that way. Our other cat with possible IBD/beginning CKD absolutely refuses any of the prescriptions or anything close to the prescription levels. His kidney values have gone down signficantly since I adopted him two years ago and have worked on getting his phosphorus intake lower. He's now eating Purina EN, which is higher in protein (60-ish%) and a smidge above 1% phosphorus (both DMB). So, I feel ok with continuing him on that since his numbers have actually decreased with food that has similar numbers. Thanks for talking me through! I feel better now that I know what other people are doing as well and can carry on with what I have been doing/what the plan was. I appreciate your feedback!

 

[r-kins]

I feel you so much on this! I have a thread going right now "Could use some support..." where I first discovered my young guy has stage 3 CKD and am learning to deal with it, including food. He also seems to only want Royal Canin T or D and only when he feels like it. I just have boxes of food sitting around. Occasionally he'll eat some Hill's for a bedtime snack but that was it. He also didn't love the Weruva Wx. He began to refuse all renal food and I've gotten him to eat Weruva's Steak Frites the past week, which he seems to like. It's got more protein but the phosphorus is fairly low, so I'm mixing that with Royal Canin T at the moment and he seems appeased.

The internist that I've gone do said it's more important to get the calories in him than make sure they're only renal calories, and that seems to be the general consensus. Starvation will kill them faster than kidney disease will.

I'm really amazed at how well people's cats have done on regular diets simply because they wouldn't eat the renal food. It's given me some hope lately.

 

[Mac and Cats]

I feel you so much on this! I have a thread going right now "Could use some support..." where I first discovered my young guy has stage 3 CKD and am learning to deal with it, including food. He also seems to only want Royal Canin T or D and only when he feels like it. I just have boxes of food sitting around. Occasionally he'll eat some Hill's for a bedtime snack but that was it. He also didn't love the Weruva Wx. He began to refuse all renal food and I've gotten him to eat Weruva's Steak Frites the past week, which he seems to like. It's got more protein but the phosphorus is fairly low, so I'm mixing that with Royal Canin T at the moment and he seems appeased.

The internist that I've gone do said it's more important to get the calories in him than make sure they're only renal calories, and that seems to be the general consensus. Starvation will kill them faster than kidney disease will.

I'm really amazed at how well people's cats have done on regular diets simply because they wouldn't eat the renal food. It's given me some hope lately.

Oh man. I have an entire half of a closet FULL of wet cat food. I'm not even kidding. I would show you a photo, but it's honestly embarrassing. We have a cat that was diagnosed with suspected IBD (and beginning stages of CKD too) and I spent the better part of the last two years trying to find ANY FOOD that he would eat on a regular basis that was ok for his CKD (he wouldn't eat the prescriptions) thinking he was just a really picky guy. He'd be into a new food for a few days and then suddenly just not want to eat it. If it is IBD or SCL, it makes a lot of sense why he would be picky. His pain (or whatever he is feeling) probably made him associate it with the food he was eating. He liked several of the Weurva (not the low phos ones) at first and so I bought a case of each flavor he liked. I was so excited that I found foods he was willingly eating. Well, then he stopped liking them after a week. This is the situation with a big chunk of the food in the closet. I'm trying to figure out if I should just cut my losses and give most of the food away or if I should keep trying to feed it to our younger cat without health issues, but he's really not interested in them that much. He prefers Fancy Feast. I'd rather give them away than throw them out everyday because someone isn't eating more than two bites. I don't even know if our cat Molly, that needs the CKD food will even eat the renal food consistantly. Right now I'm just trying to get her to eat some of it and increase her wet food intake. She's a crunchy food addict, so if the dry food is out, she will go to that first. I'm waiting on a third microchip feeder because she keeps wanting to eat our other cat's wet food for his IBD. It's enough to make you go absolutely crazy. I'm hoping that I can just get her to eat some wet food every day. I feel like I need a support group just to complain about my cat food woes haha!

 

[BellaBlue82]

I am right there with all of you. I have four large Chewy boxes full of food that I am taking to our local shelter as a donation this weekend. We went through various foods for Nico when we thought he had IBD, that he just would not eat. Then right after that when Casper was sick, I bought him different foods when we thought he had cholangeohepatitis. It's a sad sight since they're both no longer with us, but hopefully the shelter will put them to good use.

 

[Furballsmom]

hopefully the shelter will put them to good use.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but they and their fosters are blessing you

 

[Mac and Cats]

I am right there with all of you. I have four large Chewy boxes full of food that I am taking to our local shelter as a donation this weekend. We went through various foods for Nico when we thought he had IBD, that he just would not eat. Then right after that when Casper was sick, I bought him different foods when we thought he had cholangeohepatitis. It's a sad sight since they're both no longer with us, but hopefully the shelter will put them to good use.

I'm sure the shelter will really appreciate it. I've already given away so much food. I think I ended up donating about 8 cases of RC renal food to a shelter when we lost our sweet Bub and then over the last two years I've had my husband take a bunch of food into his work for his coworkers that have cats. I've also donated our fair share to a shelter I use to work with also. Chewy has refunded me for a fair bit of it and told me to keep it, but I've also actually physically returned a fair bit to them in the past as well. It just gets to the point where they have GOT to be thinking I'm trying to scam them because of how much food I've ordered and then tried to return later. Sort of embarrassing!

 

[Furballsmom]

They know and understand, especially with the complications to us owners with picky cats and other health related challenges from the supply chain chaos. I'm so glad that Petco left this policy of Chewy's in place when they bought them. I had the same thing, maybe not to quite such a degree when Poppycat left us.

 

[Mac and Cats]

They know and understand, especially with the complications to us owners with picky cats and other health related challenges from the supply chain chaos. I'm so glad that Petco left this policy of Chewy's in place when they bought them. I had the same thing, maybe not to quite such a degree when Poppycat left us.

I'm sure you're right. Are they owned by Petco? I thought it was Petsmart.

 

[Furballsmom]

oops, you're right, it's Petsmart

 

[Mac and Cats]

oops, you're right, it's Petsmart

Either way, I'm surprised they left it! I always feel like I'm getting ripped off when I go into Petsmart, yet I buy from Chewy religiously.

 

[Mac and Cats]

Speaking of insane amounts of cat food sitting in my closet...does anyone know if it would be ok for me to give my almost 1 year old cat a senior food once every few days or would it harm him? It's the Tiki Cat Velvet Mousse in a salmon flavor and another in a chicken flavor. It would not be his primary source of calories. Mostly just to use it up, if he will eat it. I haven't given it to him yet, just wondering if I should see if he will eat it or just scrap that idea.

 

[Furballsmom]

would it harm him

It's fine to give him The ingredients will be mostly the same and the nutritional makeup will be a little different, but in a rotational menu of different foods it shouldn't be an issue for him.