Changes coming re: Tiki Cat Gourmet Carnivore

[crica]

Yes, they all have been to the vet, they don't have diarrhea anymore, it took like a little more then a week for everyone to adjust to new sheba pate food, but their poop is still stinky, huge and barely formed and they still don't play as much, but kittens are going to have last boosters of vaccines on 28th (nearly 4mos at that point) and then get neutered a month after that, so i expect even less activity from them after that

but i am convinced the pate is to blame for their poop, my two 4 year old cats poop was not like this when not eating food with gums in it

thanks for helping me figure out if that food needs more fat!

again, the animal omegas seem to come from seafood, something a cat doesn't eat in the wild, and that site says veggie omegas are not as good for them.

that simply doesn't make sense to me, because if cats don't eat seafood in the wild, wouldn't they all die in the wild without animal omegas if they needed animal omegas?

 

[kittycity16]

Hello,

So I've read through the thread... but just to clarify:

-Turkey and chicken tiki cat blend is gone forever

-gourmet carnivore is being entirely replaced with the after dark line. They are saying formulas are similar but what I'm understanding is the food is no longer the same quality... too much organs, higher carbs... anything else?

-ash content is no longer available for any of the food items, so the 1% or less gaurentee is essentially voided?

-items like Koolina and Puka Puka are *staying* around

-And then can someone explain more about the quail egg and how egg can affect a cat's diet? I thought it must be cooked, but in tiki cat wouldn't it be raw?

THANK YOU!

 

[dorimon]

 
but i am convinced the pate is to blame for their poop, my two 4 year old cats poop was not like this when not eating food with gums in it

What were the kitties eating previously?  How did you transition from the old food to the new food?  Have you been adding anything to their food?  There are many possible reasons for the loose stools.  Your kitties might be sensitive to an ingredient in the Sheba, or you may have switched foods too quickly, or it might be any of a plethora of other reasons.  Or even a combination of different factors!  Probiotics could help, but I would consult with your vet first.  I provided some links in my earlier responses.

Also, did you have the kitties' tested for giardia?  Coco and Callie suffered from diarrhea and loose stool before we found the underlying cause.  You might want to bring stool samples to your vet for testing.  Giardia is hard to diagnose since it also isn't present in each stool (it goes through a cycle).  Our first tests came back negative, and the second time positive.  This might be a possibility since the kittens recently joined your family?

You might want to start a new thread to discuss the issues you are seeing with your kitties.  There are lots of more experienced cat moms and dads here on TCS, but they might not be seeing your posts here under this thread.

 
again, the animal omegas seem to come from seafood, something a cat doesn't eat in the wild, and that site says veggie omegas are not as good for them.

that simply doesn't make sense to me, because if cats don't eat seafood in the wild, wouldn't they all die in the wild without animal omegas if they needed animal omegas?

According to Feline-Nutrition.org, a fish oil supplement "replaces the Omega acids that would usually be in the eyes and brains of the animal eaten."  Again, if you are feeding a commercial complete cat food, you don't need to worry about adding anything.

 

[dorimon]

-Turkey and chicken tiki cat blend is gone forever

Unfortunately, this seems to be the case.  Soulistic or Weruva might have something similar in their product lines.

-gourmet carnivore is being entirely replaced with the after dark line. They are saying formulas are similar but what I'm understanding is the food is no longer the same quality... too much organs, higher carbs... anything else?

I don't think we have enough information to draw any conclusions about the quality of the new foods just yet.  I don't see the addition of organ meat as a bad change, and we also don't know that the new food is higher in carbs.

However, we do know that the new foods are more expensive (increase in price per can) and also less calorie-dense (fewer calories per can), which would mean you now need to feed more cans, and each can also costs more.

-ash content is no longer available for any of the food items, so the 1% or less gaurentee is essentially voided?

We just don't have this information yet.  It might be printed on the can, but nobody in this thread seems to have their hands on the new After Dark cans yet.  You can also call Tiki to ask.

-items like Koolina and Puka Puka are *staying* around

These two products have already been updated under the "Grill & Luau" line (http://www.tikipets.com/grill-luau/).

 

[cheeser]

I don't think we have enough information to draw any conclusions about the quality of the new foods just yet.  I don't see the addition of organ meat as a bad change, and we also don't know that the new food is higher in carbs.

Thanks much for clarifying that, @dorimon.  :-)

I may have not expressed myself well, but I'm mostly just nervous about this change because it *is* a change.  It may be wonderful, my cat may love it, and all this anxiety may be for naught. ;-)

You're absolutely right that we don't know for sure that the carb content is higher.  TikiPets doesn't have any information about the After Dark products on their website at this time, so the Guaranteed Analysis was all I had to go on.  And as Dr. Pierson points out, "GA values are reported as minimums and maximums and are, by definition, inaccurate since there is no ceiling or floor, respectively."

So when I plug the GA numbers into my spreadsheet, at first glance it would appear that the carbs are a little higher.  But it's quite possible they could actually be lower.  It's also quite possible that I made an error in my spreadsheet somewhere. ;-)

 

[skittles17]

HI- I looked at their dry food and the protein level made a little nervous - it was very high - my cats have had crystals and they are doing better on a more moderate protein level diet and a mix of dry and wet - every cat is different but keep your eye on their urine amounts!

 

[skittles17]

Weruva is great and they post all the nutritional info online - I feed the Nine Liver  - TikiCat doesn't even have the after dark on their website - i just found out from Chewy that it was being switched in my autoship - the chicken and duck ingredients list quail egg.....no duck......too bad - this was a favorite in my rotation of different brands

 

[skittles17]

organ meats tend to increase phos & carb levels - and the chic and duck has 3 different organ meats in it - 

 

[kittycity16]

Did you order a case of after dark from chewy?

 

[cheeser]

Did you order a case of after dark from chewy?

Not yet, mostly because we had recently stockpiled a bunch of supplies, and I was waiting until I needed to order at least $49 worth of stuff to get the free shipping. ;-)

But since we're down to the last 12 cans for a couple of flavors, I'll probably be placing an order soon.  I'll let y'all know how it goes. :-)

 

[cheeser]

Originally Posted by dorimon  

The Gourmet Carnivore varieties all had guaranteed analysis ash percentages at around 1%.  This information used to be listed here: http://tikipets.com/petropics-nutrition-facts/, but it seems like this page has since been taken down...

Well, this is embarrassing.  That's what happens when I rely on my fuzzy memory instead of actually double-checking my info.  It was the fiber column that was blank on my spreadsheet (because fiber is listed as 0% on the TikiPets website for each individual flavor page), not the ash %.  Oops.  Sorry about that.

But the nutrition information is now available at this link.  Still no updated info on the new formulas for the original grill and luau flavors though.

Oooh, and I just noticed that Dr. Pierson has updated her cat food chart for 2017!  Yay!

 

 

[kittycity16]

THatd be great, thank you!

 

[kittycity16]

A few reviews are in on chewy and they are mainly negative.. low stars.. has anyone here tried the new dark line yet?

 

[cheeser]

A few reviews are in on chewy and they are mainly negative.. low stars.. has anyone here tried the new dark line yet?

We have. Our cats flat out refused to eat any part of it, not even the broth. On the bright side, the 'new and improved' Puka Puka and Koolina Luau flavors that Buddy had been turning his nose up at suddenly looks pretty good to him by comparison. ;-)

 

[Gizmobius]

I ordered the variety pack from Chewy and Gizmo loves it. Licks his bowl completely clean. I'll undoubtedly purchase more in the future as they're a fun little treat for a growing kitten since they aren't very high in calories so he's always plowing through his other brands too.

 

[cat r me]

Here are the new ingredients of the "After Dark" line... it's ok but not great. Chicken BROTH is the first ingredient. I hope they keep the other lines the same and this is only an addition.

Tiki Cat After Dark Chicken Canned Cat Food:

Ingredients

Chicken Broth, Chicken, Chicken Liver, Chicken Gizzard, Chicken Heart, Tricalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate, Taurine, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Source Of Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Niacin (Vitamin B3), Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Calcium Iodate, Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin K3 Supplement.
Caloric Content

711 kcal/kg, 57 kcal/can

They merged with another company and the quality has fallen tremendously. I did a side by side comparison of the ingredients on the Chicken & Duck Gourmet Carnivore and the After Dark, only to find they have gone over to the DARK SIDE! They have now put these ingredients into the After Dark formula:

• Salt - (which cats don’t need any more salt than is available from the meat they consume)
• Tuna Oil (which can have high levels of lead, mercury, arsenic or other heavy metals. Not to say given daily can have an effect on blood clotting and we have actually seen thyroid issues)
• Sodium Selenite (Selenium yeast can be a safer form of to deliver the required selenium to a pet diet, according to one study Sodium Selenite is “2.94 times more toxic than Selenium Yeast”. But sadly, the FDA has not yet approved the use of selenium yeast for use in cat food - only dog food has FDA approval)
• Vitamin K3 supplement - Vitamin K supplementation in the diet, specifically vitamin K3 (menadione), is unnecessary and potentially toxic to pets!
  
• Protein percentage is less, whereas they have increased the calorie content which is also not good and can cause obesity.
• The Gourmet Carnivore line did not have these toxic ingredients, and in all good conscience I cannot feed a food that can cause harm to my guys. They are obviously only concerned about their bottom line. I truly wish I could warn people about this as I am sure if they have trusted Tiki Cat in the past, sadly they will continue to trust them. Need to warn people!

 

[cat r me]

I dunno what's going on with Tiki Cat.

The GC Chicken with Duck still meets with Buddy's approval, but he'll barely touch the Grill & Luau chicken flavors ever since we started getting the cans with the new labels.

I'm not too thrilled about the liver and other organ meats in the new After Dark line, mostly because I was under the impression that it wasn't good for cats to have so much liver in their diet on a daily basis. Then again, maybe there's not enough to be concerned about. You know, like how a can of pork and beans has that teeny-tiny sliver of pork that you practically need a microscope to see.

Pet360 has the After Dark Variety Pack, but since I don't have an account or any experience with them, I'm hoping that it will become available soon at Chewy. That way Buddy can refuse to eat the products in a variety of flavors, rather than just one.

After finding out they are changing to substandard ingredients, and some that could even be harmful, I think I may be purchasing the cooked frozen chicken from Big Bear in Colorado. They have some really awesome ratings and the ingredients look superb! Cost wise it will be about the same any way

 

[lisahe]

To follow up on C cat r me 's posts about the After Dark ingredients: note that as of this writing, the ingredient lists on Chewy (here) do not include salt and tuna oil, but the lists on the Tiki site for the chicken food (here) and chicken/duck food (here) do. I certainly don't blame Chewy for that, particularly given how much Tiki has fiddled with ingredient lists for their foods over the years!

Also, I didn't realize that Vitamin K3 is another name for menadione, an ingredient I've long preferred to skip.

Gourmet Carnivore was very decent food and I'm sorry to see it go after such a short life, RIP, though our cats aren't as enthusiastic about GC as they used to be. I haven't tracked the ingredients but the shreds seem smaller. Or maybe the cats just got bored with it, it's hard to say!

 

[cheeser]

Also, I didn't realize that Vitamin K3 is another name for menadione, an ingredient I've long preferred to skip.

Gourmet Carnivore was very decent food and I'm sorry to see it go after such a short life, RIP, though our cats aren't as enthusiastic about GC as they used to be. I haven't tracked the ingredients but the shreds seem smaller. Or maybe the cats just got bored with it, it's hard to say!

I was disappointed about the K3 supplement as well. Then again, I'm just disappointed in general with all of these changes.

I contacted Tiki Cat to ask why they added it, and this was their reply:

"We did have to update the vitamin and mineral premix on some of our diets due to AAFCO changing their standards last year. They updated their requirements for a complete and balanced diet, causing us to update the mix for some of the diets that did not meet it naturally. We are looking for other options to meet the new vitamin K requirement."​

Whatever.

I've just been so frustrated, because Buddy has had one problem after another after half of his daily menu was either changed or discontinued. Thank goodness the other half, or we'd be up the proverbial creek without a paddle!