Cats hiss at and also one bites vets and nurses

[anni7]

I have two brothers who are 5 years old. Their mother was Oriental breed. Father -domestic no breed tabby.
They are not desexed.
The cats are friendly but not with vets and staff at vet hospital.
Especially Tabby he doesnt let the vet do some things like putting flea treatment on his back. If the vet is not careful then the cat manages to bite leaving deep punctures.
The other one Snowy hisses more often but occasionally tries to bite as well.
The vets are nervous when Tabby comes in and one vet doesnt want to see Tabby as once he bitten his fingers quite deep and this vet is a surgeon who said he needs his hands for his work.
We try to reassure our cats but they get aggressive at the vets. Both of them hiss and show their teeth and Tabby also managed to scratch and bite several people. When Tabby was at the vet hospital once for four days several people shown me marks on their arms and some complained about my cats behaviour.
I dont know if this type of behaviour is usual at the vets and what can be done about it.
I try to hold the cat and talk to them but i am not strong enough and the cat still manages to scratch and bite. Even my partner has problems holding the cats as they are strong and have sharp claws and teeth.
Are our cats unusually nasty to vet staff? Is this normal?
We see the same vets ie the same hospital and also mostly same staff for the past 5 years with them.

 

[margd]

The first thing I'd do if they were my cats is have them neutered.  That alone would probably cut back a lot of the aggression.  You could also ask the vet about giving Snowy and Tabby mild sedatives at home so they were feeling calm by the time they were on the exam table.  I'm actually surprised the vet hasn't mentioned this before.  

It might also help to spray some Feliway inside the carrier, although they might only keep them calm while they were actually in the carrier and not when they were out being handled by the vet.  Feliway is based on a facial pheromone that cats emit when they are feeling content and happy.  Here's their website: http://www.feliway.com/us/#redirected.

 

[fyllis]

For a vet to say he wouldn't handle a cat because of his ''surgeon's hands'' would make me think he lacks experience or personality to work with cats - period! I've been seeing the same vet for 30 years - at one time their staff would come out to my farm and see/treat livestock, dogs and cats. Of course, some of the barn cats weren't completely socialized, so he would always put on a pair of leather gloves when handling them. But he had such a calm demeanor and truly loved animals and they actually calmed after he had them in his hands. 

The last time I had the Boys to the vet (just recently over the holidays) they needed to obtain a stool specimen. Not the most pleasant experience for anyone involved, especially for Keeker! The tech picked him up in the exam room and took him across the hall. She sat him on the table and petted him and scratched under his chin and talked with him until a second tech joined her.  I watched through the window and the tech that held him put on a pair of leather gloves 'just in case'. Keeker did hiss and attempt to bite but he didn't cause anyone any harm because they were prepared and knew what they were doing. 

After all was said and done, the tech that was holding him gave him a treat, then lifted him up and carried him back across the hall to me. He was NOT a happy camper at that point! But it could have resulted in an aggressive bite if they hadn't worn the gloves. When I mentioned that I saw him bite the techs hand, he chuckled and said, "Well, I would have bitten me too!" 

One suggestion I have is that you schedule your appointments when the vet is slow. Then ask if you can go back to the exam room for 5-10 minutes alone with your cat and let him snoop around and get used to the smells and environment. Let them know ahead of time that he doesn't do well with being at the vet's office (they 'should' already know this!). Also, ask if there is a different vet that could see him. Cat's are not stupid and they KNOW when a person is or is not 'cat friendly'. I take both my Boys in together and they wander around the room, jump from the table to the chair to the counter and within minutes, they are both calm and laying 'somewhere' in the room by the time the tech and/or vets comes in. 

A trained vet tech (AND the vet) should know how to scruff a cat and keep it contained. You might also ask that they give you a muzzle to put on him before the exam. Or they could easily put him in a 'burrito wrap' - depending on the extent of the exam. 

Spritzing some FeliWay in the carrier about 15 minutes before you leave the house could have some calming effect on him, as Margd said. You might want to take a wash cloth with you and right before getting himout of the car, spritz the cloth with FekiWay and put it in the carrier as a 'booster'. 

Most importantly, it is a must that YOU stay calm. Cats can sense your emotions and will react accordingly. If you go in with the mind-set that he is going to go berserk, he will! He senses your anxiety. Even if you can't catty a tune in a bucket, sing to him and gently stroke him and give him a treat once you get in the exam room. 

If all else fails, you might want to check into finding a more cat friendly vet who knows how to handle a frightened cat. 

Honestly, (and this is my opinion) if a vet can't handle a 10 or 15 pound cat, what the hell does he do with dogs he treats? 

And yes, I strongly suggest you get them neutered asap! It will calm their aggression and prevent a lot of hassle in the long-run regarding spraying and other behaviors. 

I have two neutered males that weigh about 15 pounds each and, even when Keeker had an unpleasant experience a couple months ago, neither he nor Kricket have ever been uncontrollable at the vet's. 

I hope some of this helps and you have a better and more relaxed visit next time!

 

[margd]

 

[anni7]

We decided not to neuter because of several reasons. We were advised early on about neutering and I know most people do neuter their cats and the vets envourage it.
I will talk to my partner more about this.
Our cats are inside only so there is no problem with them going outside and impragnating cats or fighting. They are males and several people who have male cats told me some developed urinary problems after desex. Also many cats put on weight. Our cats are quite healthy apart from food and medicine allergies so they are on special diet and cant have some meds (some new ones added still).. So we decided to keep them intact. Of course neutering will likely reduce their aggression somewhat, but at the same time the vets have neutered cats come in they told us who are bitey at the vets despite being desexed, so this may not even help.

 

[anni7]

The vet loves cats and has a cat at home. Tabby mostly cant be scruffed sometimes as he manages to turn around he is small but strong. Once they wrapped him up and still he managed to keep jumping up and turning.
Many vets at the hospital have cats at home and some of them do bite them at times as well.
We didnt insist even though we also thought the vet had other options eg wrap the cat; ask for assistance.
I will talk to my partner re neutering but it seems it can cause some problems and we are used to them being their spritey selves.

 

[anni7]

Also apparently the vet didnt say that he doesnt want to see the cat. Maybe i misunderstood as my partner said the vet was a bit unhappy but he didnt refuse to treat Tabby in the future

 

[margd]

I'm glad you're open to the possibility of neutering them.  There are so many benefits to it, including the fact they will never get testicular cancer.  

I'm glad your vet didn't put your kitty on the Won't Treat list!  The only other thing I can think of is to actually spray some Feliway in the exam room.  That might calm them down a bit.  And speak to your vet about an anti-anxiety medication, like xanax or valium.  Not every day, but just before going to the vet.   I'd think the vet would be receptive to the idea, considering his scars!
[article="30323"]Anti Anxiety Medication For Cats  [/article]

 

[anni7]

Testicular cancer is pretty rare anyway so i dont think its a good reason to neuter the cats. I know many cat owners who have neutered cats and the cats are also inside only and they are quite fat. The cats were much leaner before neutering. Also like i said before i know of at least 3 cats who have urinary issues: they are all males and even the vets said that in some cases neuter is a risk for urinary issues in male cats. I have spoken to vets and they all said that the cats are better neutered and they did give us a lot of info. It seems to be a policy to neuter the pet cats. We have a neighbour with a Siamese who has papers ie pedigree and he is not neutered as he is going to be bred- the cat doesnt bite anyone and is very placid. It prob also depends on the cat.

 

[margd]

Yes, I had the impression you'd done a lot of thinking on the subject.  One of my big concerns would be that one would get out by accident, nature would take its course and 65 days later, there would be kittens.  And there are SO many homeless cats, I hate to think of any more.  Also, since your guys are so aggressive at the vets, it just seems like a good idea.

 

[anni7]

I will and am actually already talking to my partner about this
I was not the one who was so against but he is. He had many cats before and in their family they didnt neuter. Of course if they roam it is not good but my cats dont even know how to go up or down stairs! They did escape a few times but they got as far as the stairwell and no further as they dont know what stairs are. We always caught them and in their 5 years with us the escapes are extremely rare and never out of sight.
We will talk more about the neuter but my partner is sceptical it helps problems as much as advertised as it must be policy of vets to neuter pet animals. Our neighbour has an intact male Siamese and he doesnt even try to roam... I guess thats unusual.

 

[molly92]

Lots of cats will bite and scratch when they're scared (like at the vet), but yours does seem on the extreme end of that. A cat that freaked out can definitely be dangerous, but a vet should have heavy duty gloves ready for just that reason.

This article is a really good overview of all of the research on the effects of sterilizations: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0531.2012.02078.x/full

It's a bit dog-heavy (I assume more research is done on dogs than cats), but it covers all the main points about neutering cats, too. Weight gain is pretty common after neutering. My guess is this is likely because they aren't as active anymore, so reducing calories and feeding a healthy diet can manage that. About urinary tract issues, it has this to say:

 Multiple studies have failed to show any correlation between castration, urethral diameter, and incidence of urinary tract obstruction in male cats.

which is pretty much as conclusive as a paper like this gets. They did go on to talk about possible problems with neutering too early (no conclusion was reached), but that's not something you have to worry about.

This paper also talks about aggression and neutering, and it found that the type of aggression it reduces the best is between males, but not so much in other areas like defensive behaviors. So it may be that neutering doesn't change anything during vet visits if your cat is just really that scared. But it might help if he's reacting to the smell of the other cats and animals at the vet.

This wasn't in the paper, but I would think that neutering would make your cats much happier about being indoor cats!

About urinary tract issues in general: cats mainly get them from genetic factors and being fed a dry food diet. Hydration is the absolute best prevention, so if you can feed wet, the better off your cats will be.

 

[anni7]

I dont recall where i seen the other articles about the neuter and male urinary issues... I do recall seeing something. I came from a country where cats were rarely neutered so i am used to having intact animals around. Not to say it is a good approach but i thought if there is no health reason eg cancer, hormonal disabalance etc to neuter why fix something that is not broken? They do say the cats will be happier etc and calmer and may be its true but for me its a big issue to put my furry fam member through a weird surgery like if they neutered humans it may help some issues but we dont normally neuter people. Unless there are some forced sterilisations that still occur in intellectually disabled i recently read about. It seems wrong to me to desex my cat ...

 

[molly92]

Forced sterilization of people is hugely unethical, I agree, but cats are not people. We'd do them a disservice to assume they think, feel, and have the same desires as we do. And we've also done a really weird thing to the species by domesticating them. Whether or not that was ethical of our ancestors is a whole other debate, but it's done and it's our responsibility to care for them. I think this includes spaying and neutering, because on an individual level the cats seem happier and, especially for female cats, they're healthier. On an ecological level, stray cats have really destroyed native populations of birds and rodents, so widespread spaying and neutering is better for the environment. But it's your decision. If you think these two cats would be happier intact, and they'll never set foot outside, then that's up to you and I don't think that's such a bad thing. If they were females, where the medical benefits are much clearer, I might argue differently. 

 

[anni7]

We would have likely desexed female ones. I know many people disagree with us for not desexing them. We are quite worried about the surgery and got set in our ways.
They never go outside.

 

[anni7]

I understand its not comparable people and pets but there is some truth in it. Some countries eg Sweden i think, dont have a policy of desexing and the pets are mostly desexed for health or behavioural reasons only. Yea we are always told by vets and people generally how we are wrong, its a desexing culture and it makes some sense as there are many unwanted animals which are being euthanised but its just making another type of problem- controlling population and other issues but individual pets suffer. If you look on the net there are studies that show that desexing in dogs increases chances of cancer esp in female dogs and other things